Hi folks,

I came across the following quote - a single line in a long article.

'Excess fats damage the immune system through irradiation by free radicals during peroxidation of fats.'

I have no idea what it means. Anyone care to enlighten me?
Here's where it came from:

http://www.medical-library.net/site..._nutrition.html

BTW, I've lost 65 lbs so far on Atkins - I'm not here to lob bombs - I just believe the state of medicine is that we really don't know for sure what *is* the 'right' way of eating. Modern medicine is only a little more than 100 years old. My bloodwork is ok, but God only know what my arteries look like, or if I'm setting myself up for cancer. I look a hell of a lot better, feel better, but am I killing myself doing this?

I believe the jury is still out, but I'm open to listening to both sides. I'm looking for truth, not vindication of any preconceived notions, or responses from those with an agenda.

Skrat

High free radical production is associated with polyunsaturated fats because of their vulnerable double bonds. Most other fats (except transfats of course) dont increase free radicals. I suggest that you check out the westonaprice.org site for more info. Dr. Mary Enig has done a great deal of research on fats and how the body uses them. Nyah Levi

While Atkins is touted as a high-fat diet, I believe I consume less fat than I did when not sticking to this WOL. Especially transfats which I do not consume anymore. We may consume higher fats than low-calorie dieters, but I believe we end up consuming less than most overweight people do.

Orchid

Another thing to note is that sugar (and foods that become sugar in the body) increases free radical production way more than fats do so avoiding PUFAs, transfats and sugar as well as increasing your antioxidants through diet (gosh, doesn't this sound just like low carb?) should benefit health tremendously.

I just read that everything that we eat is converted into glucose, this includes fats and proteins. If we are consuming a very low amount of carbs then glucoes must come from other sources. If this is the case the body will not go thru irradation of free redicals during peroxidation of fats. It is just my guess that if we are consuming to many carbohydrates to allow for fats and proteins to be used as glucose then yes, this might happen. But keeping these in the correct balance improves the immune system.

Here's my understanding.
The process of burning energy so as to sustain life creates toxic byproducts known as free radicals. Free radicals damage cells and contribute to aging, sickness, and in general physiological decay.

Fat metabolism does create free radicals, especially if you are consuming heavily oxidized fats (charred bbqed meats, oil that has been repeatedly used for frying, a stir fry that's burned, etc). However, what's not being mentioned is that not all fats are equal. Polyunsaturates - found mostly in vegetation and not the animal foods humans naturally consume primarily in their diets - are much more fragile, more reactive with light and heat, and more readily produce free radicals than stable fat like saturated and even monosaturated fats. Furthermore, sugar - also mostly found in plant matter which is designed to supplement the human diet - produces an extreme amount of free radicals as well.

Remove sugar and starch from your diet, and watch in amazement as your frequency of illness plummets. I can't recall the last illness I've had. WHen I get sick now, it's usually 1 day of slightly irritated E/N/T, that's it... hardly even qualifies as sickness symptoms. Previously, when I got sick I had days of stuffed up nose, a throat that felt like I'd swallowed glass, as well as uncomfortable, downright painful and stuffy ears.... so stuffed that often times they would bleed from the pressure.

So while it's true that fats do create free radicals, and free radicals do negatively effect the immune system, what's not being said is that fat metabolism is the least taxing on the body. This is particularly true if your fat sources are mostly animal based.

I think the word irradiation is incorrect. I think they meant ionization.

The fats that can be peroxidated are the poly-unsaturated ones. Saturated fats have all their bonds filled i.e. saturated.

Fats exposed to air will go rancid. This is a form of peroxidation.

I too consume WAY less fat than I did on a so called "regular " eating plan

It is not true that everything is converted to glucose. Carbohydrates are and the liver can make glucose from protein if it is needed by the body. Protein not needed for this process is used for building/rebuilding various parts of the body. Fats are not turned to glucose when used as fuel, as the mitochondria can use the products of fat breakdown for fuel. One of the interesting things about cancer cells is that they can only use glucose for fuel ( as reported elsewhere on this site ) which MAY (not proven) indicate that a low carb diet can help starve cancers. Nyah Levi

Could be Nyah, but a LCer still has normal blood sugar levels (presumably through conversion of the glucogenic amino acids in protein), just not the whopping swings that someone eating lots of carbs has. So the cancer cells would get their substrate, albeit at a lower, steady rate. I wouldn't predict that LC would be a cure for cancer.

http://www.powerhealth.net/articles5.htm

Some interesting reading (with footnote references for further research if interested) on fats and breast cancer.

That was an interesting article, Lisa. Enig doesn't seem to be all that knowledgable on dairy production methods though. It is my understanding that the great majority of dairy cows are on pasture (or hay in the winter), not grain. So it is not necessary to look far and wide for cheeses that contain CLA. It is your beef cattle that are fattened with grain in the feedlot. And even these animals are pastured for the first several months of their lives, I think.

Yea, I think "organic" animal and food products are largely a gimmick.
I mean there probably is a quality benefit to feeding and raising animals and plants in a more natural environment, but to go so far as to say that regular supermarket store meat and dairy is "empty" or to go so far as to call it "unhealthy" is just ridiculously excessive. Do you expect me to believe the difference between regular homogenized and pasteurized dairy farm milk is that great from raw milk?

You know some people take healthy living to extremes, and frankly I don't think there's anything healthy about health obsession. It's literature like that which makes me want to just throw trying to "eat healthier" out the window (again with the extremism; so too much concern about health is problematic, does that mean not enough concern about health is better? Balance for me with food is always elusive :/.)

What's depressing about so much of the health literature is the feeling that you can never get it right. Organic meat is better than regular meat; then it has to be pastured; then the question is hay or alfalfa, etc., etc. There's a reductio ad absurdum here. Somewhere there's a dividing line between the reasonable and the obsessive. People get caught up on the obsessive side, I think, as a way of focussing on themselves.

Tom Sawyer,
I hardly ever disagree with you, but dairy cows in production do need substantial energy supplementation in the form of grain. Even with the large amount of grain energy good dairy cows are skinny. It is true that when they are "dry" (by stopping milking 10 months after calving) they are put on pasture. If everything has gone according to plan they would be 2 months from calving again at the time they are removed from the milking heard. As soon as they calve they repeat the cycle and are bred about two months post partum. These dates are seldom reached except by the best managers, but it is the goal to get the most return on their investment. Also, most dairy farmers don't want all income to come to an end at the same time. So the time that they enter the cycle is distributed throughout the year. Even if they wanted it to happen in the winter it would be very difficult without using ovulation synchronizing drugs.
So it is true that cows are not on grain for a couple months of the year, but that is also the time they are not being milked.