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  #1   ^
Old Fri, Dec-07-07, 17:04
tammay tammay is offline
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Posts: 538
 
Plan: Vegetarian Low GI
Stats: 188/179.8/125 Female 5'1"
BF:
Progress: 13%
Location: Israel (temporarily)
Default How do you deal with the inner critic?

Hi all,
I'm posting this on the vegetarian thread because I've been having a lot of issues lately with trying to go back to lowcarbing since becoming a vegetarian.

The first time I did lowcarbing, I ate meat and did well on it, liked it, lost 30 pounds. However, I didn't have a good plan of action for maintenance and tried to do low GI type thing but that wasn't really helping me. I became a vegetarian, which I loved, and have also tried to be a vegan. I've been reading a lot of books on veganism and while I'm not a huge animal activist, I would like someday to be able to stick with a vegan diet because I do believe it's a very healthy way of eating.

However, I still love lowcarbing and now I'm trying to lose 15 pounds that I gained within the past year and a half. When I was doing lowcarbing as a meat-eater I whole-heartedly believed in it and felt the benefits. However, since reading so much material on veganism, I'm finding it hard to stick with a lowcarb diet. Every time I try to start a vegetarian lowcarb diet, I get this uneasy feeling, like I'm doing my body a lot of harm, even though physically I feel good. I think I've been influenced by the totally negative attitude that most vegans take on lowcarbing because they're seeing it as the Atkins eat-all-the-bacon-you-want-cut-out-ALL-carbs thing, which anyone who has done lowcarbing knows is way wrong.

I don't think it's an issue of "look how many cows I'm killing when I eat this cheese stick" as I've mentioned I haven't been interested in veganism for animal activist reasons. It's just something I can't quite put my finger on.

I know this all sounds very vague and maybe there's no solution other than to quiet the critics in my mind and just go with what I know works.

Tam
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  #2   ^
Old Fri, Dec-07-07, 18:14
Wifezilla's Avatar
Wifezilla Wifezilla is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,367
 
Plan: I'm a Barry Girl
Stats: 250/208/190 Female 72
BF:
Progress: 70%
Location: Colorado
Default

If it isn't for animal activism reasons, why go vegetarian?

(I used to be a vegetarian, I have had never gained so much weight or been as unhealthy)

Even if you want to be vegetarian, why vegan?

And if this is something you really want to do, why care what anyone else says? (especially me! LOL)

If you are having trouble staying LC, I would hazard a guess that you aren't getting enough fat. Instead of meat or meat products, you can get good fats from avocados, coconut oil, and olive oil.
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  #3   ^
Old Sat, Dec-08-07, 19:13
Gaelen's Avatar
Gaelen Gaelen is offline
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Posts: 244
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 216/166/150 Female 60 inches
BF:45%/33.5%/28%
Progress: 76%
Location: CNY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wifezilla
If it isn't for animal activism reasons, why go vegetarian?


Lots of people are vegetarian or vegan for two much more compelling reasons than 'animal activism' -- matters of spirituality, and matters of finance.

More than a third of the world's population is meatless at least some part of the year because of spirituality/faith-based fasting periods. In fact, it might even be up to half of the population.

Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Moslems and all variations of Catholics (Roman and Eastern Orthodox) 'fast' from meat either entirely or for periods during the year.

As for 'animal activism' as a reason for vegetarianism...well, I'm one of the people who does the kind of work that makes PETA violently abusive (and me proud ), so in my case animal activism was in no way any reason for choosing to be meatless, something I did for more than 25 years.

I went meatless because, in the 70s, they were gift-wrapping meat because it was so expensive. As a starving student and then an underemployed, underpaid writer for all of my 20s, I had to find a way to feed myself and my 7 roomies when only two of us were bringing in any kind of paycheck. I could keep our protein up AND feed us all well for about $25/week as a meatless house, but it would have cost twice that or more if we'd tried to eat meat even one meal a day. So we stayed more or less meatless for two years, and I learned to like meatless ethnic cuisine. Thus a vegetarian was born.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wifezilla
(I used to be a vegetarian, I have never gained so much weight or been as unhealthy)


Actually, I was pretty healthy as a vegetarian...but I learned a LOT about vegetarian eating from various ethnic students at the international student center where I cooked (one of the paying jobs) and from reading the best vegetarian cooking authors around in the 70s and early 80s. I paid attention to balancing my diet, always included dairy and good fats, and didn't actually get overwrought about fat as vegetarianism evolved in the late 80s/early 90s. It was only when I was working at a good enough job that I could start affording to add meat into my diet that I started to gain weight.

But mileage will vary.
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, Dec-18-07, 16:38
tammay tammay is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 538
 
Plan: Vegetarian Low GI
Stats: 188/179.8/125 Female 5'1"
BF:
Progress: 13%
Location: Israel (temporarily)
Default

Hi there,
Wifezilla: Animal activism is a big reason why many go vegetarian and especially vegan, but, as Gaelen points out, there are other reasons.

For me, I'm just not into eating meat and never was. It just doesn't appeal to me but I don't condemn those who do eat it. And I have no patience for those who do. In my view, everyone should do what they feel is right for their body.

I hear you, though, about not getting enough fat. In fact, I've been reajusting my diet for this very reason. I was eating lowfat dairy, even though I know from my previous experience with LCing that as long as I keep my carbs relatively low, I can have 70 or 80% fat and still feel great and lose weight. I think the whole lowfat dogma got back to me . But I just switched to regular dairy and added a bit more fat, so hopefully that should help me.

Gaelen: I agree that for the most part vegetarianism is healthier, but I agree with Wifezilla that it's also possible not to eat healthy on it, especially if you're eating a lot of white starches and packaged food. A blueberry muffin for breakfast, veggie burger and fries for lunch, and pasta with alfredo sauce for dinner along with snacks like oreos and ritz crackers is vegetarian, but not particularly healthy .

I'm happy to say that I have gotten over a lot of the anxiety I was feeling when I wrote this post. Part of it has to do with rereading the Protein Power book again and also Gary Taub's book "Good Calories, Bad Calories" and reminding myself of the science behind lowcarbing and why it works and why it's better overall over a low fat, high carb diet. I'm also coming to realize that veganism might not be the ultimate healthy diet for me and that there's nothing wrong with eating dairy and loving it (which I do). I feel bad for the cows and the chickens, though!

Tam
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, Dec-18-07, 18:02
Wifezilla's Avatar
Wifezilla Wifezilla is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,367
 
Plan: I'm a Barry Girl
Stats: 250/208/190 Female 72
BF:
Progress: 70%
Location: Colorado
Default

Quote:
I think the whole lowfat dogma got back to me


That beast IS hard to kill. Glad you are feeling better, and reading great books like you listed is a big help.
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  #6   ^
Old Sat, Dec-22-07, 15:11
Gaelen's Avatar
Gaelen Gaelen is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 244
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 216/166/150 Female 60 inches
BF:45%/33.5%/28%
Progress: 76%
Location: CNY
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tammay
Gaelen: I agree that for the most part vegetarianism is healthier, but I agree with Wifezilla that it's also possible not to eat healthy on it.


Oh, I agree, Tam...one of the things I did in the 70s and have continued to do is actually teach people *how* to eat healthy as vegetarians and vegans...and by healthy, I mean getting enough protein and fat, and however possible using organic or unprocessed foods. When I learned the vegetarian staples in my repertoire, the only prepackaged vegetarian foods available at my grocery store were things like Celantano's full fat eggplant parmesan, Stouffers veggie lasagne, and the occasional hockey-puck veggie burger. I did know people who thought cheese pizza, fries and vanilla milkshakes were the height of veggie cuisine. But with Moosewood only an hour away, well, learning about much healthier veggie cooking was something you just did.

I did try to 'control' fat for awhile, but that didn't last long. And when I first learned how to cook vegetarian, it was from my Indian, Arab, Persian and Asian friends--and trust me, that stuff is NOT low fat cooking! Ghee and olive and sesame and coconut oil were in heavy use in my college kitchen, and they still hold honored places there today.
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  #7   ^
Old Sat, Dec-22-07, 15:19
Daryl's Avatar
Daryl Daryl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,427
 
Plan: ZC
Stats: 260/222/170 Male 5-10
BF:Huh?
Progress: 42%
Location: Texas
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Gaelen, do you eat a lot of meat now?
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  #8   ^
Old Sat, Dec-22-07, 15:51
Gaelen's Avatar
Gaelen Gaelen is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 244
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 216/166/150 Female 60 inches
BF:45%/33.5%/28%
Progress: 76%
Location: CNY
Default

I'd say I eat about two thirds of my meals 'vegetarian' -- ovo lacto. The other third of my protein comes mainly from fish, which I have always considered meatless, and some of that 'third' also includes limited amounts of poultry.

Because of my cancer surgery and ostomy, for most of the last two and a half years I've had a tough time digesting nuts and seeds, and had some problems with things like tofu and soybeans, too. They used to be the other staples of my menus...but since I could no longer digest them, I had to increase the amount of fish and I now eat more poultry than I used to.

You do what you have to do...and it never was an ethical thing for me, just a 'foods that I prefer to eat' thing.
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  #9   ^
Old Sat, Dec-22-07, 15:58
Daryl's Avatar
Daryl Daryl is offline
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Posts: 7,427
 
Plan: ZC
Stats: 260/222/170 Male 5-10
BF:Huh?
Progress: 42%
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaelen
I'd say I eat about two thirds of my meals 'vegetarian' -- ovo lacto. The other third of my protein comes mainly from fish, which I have always considered meatless, and some of that 'third' also includes limited amounts of poultry.

Because of my cancer surgery and ostomy, for most of the last two and a half years I've had a tough time digesting nuts and seeds, and had some problems with things like tofu and soybeans, too. They used to be the other staples of my menus...but since I could no longer digest them, I had to increase the amount of fish and I now eat more poultry than I used to.

You do what you have to do...and it never was an ethical thing for me, just a 'foods that I prefer to eat' thing.

I see, thank you for the answer A good friend of mine is a "semi-vegetarian" , she will eat fish, and eggs, and I think she may be a bit curious about adapting that to a LC way of eating.

I hope your bout with cancer has gone well, Gaelen
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  #10   ^
Old Sun, Dec-23-07, 10:50
Gaelen's Avatar
Gaelen Gaelen is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 244
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 216/166/150 Female 60 inches
BF:45%/33.5%/28%
Progress: 76%
Location: CNY
Default

Daryl, I always used to call myself vegetarian because, although I always ate fish and seafood, the religion in which I was raised and the religious dietary practices I had to follow consider seafood/fish meatless.

However, being vegetarian wasn't always about animal rights. It used to be primarly about religion (Christian fasting, Jewish dietary laws, Buddhist and Hindu dietary consideratios.) In the 70s, a large percentage of people who adopted vegetarian eating practices were eliminating/reducing meat because it was just too expensive. We also all thought we were doing better by the planet by not eating foods (meat) which have such high production costs per serving. There was far less of an 'all or nothing' approach to meatless eating, and none of the 'true vegetarian' argument that I hear a lot these days. It was perfectly acceptable to just reduce the amount of meat you ate, or to confine your consumption to sustainable things (like eggs, dairy and fish.)

My cancer journey is, I'm afraid, never-ending. I'm stage IV, and I move between periods of remission and periods of active cancers. But for everyone who points to a vegetarian diet as the way to eliminate cancers, I am happy to point out that...um...not so much! I was pretty much completely vegetarian from the mid 70s through the 90s, or more than 20 years. Still got cancer...and was in stage IV at diagnosis with only a few weeks of warning symptoms to boot. Since CRC is typically a slow growing cancer, I likely was still eating 100% meatless while it was developing. So much for that theory.
Doesn't mean I would forsake a meatless diet, but I certainly wouldn't switch based on the very limited justification that eating veg might reduce chances of developing cancer. It might...and it might not.

Anyway, please let your friend know that I believe it's relatively easy to adapt a meatless eating style to low carbing...especially to a plan like Protein Power. If your friend eats eggs and fish, she'll be able to get in her protein minimums, and the only thing she'll have to do is greatly reduce any menu dependence on grains and higher carb beans.

Good holidays!
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