Hi,

Dr Mike just replied to me on his blog.

I had dropped a note saying that I noticed that his veggies in his pictures weren't dressed with fat.

He replied that other than a little bit of olive oil before cooking (if they're grilled), they usually do NOT dress their veggies with fat AFTER cooking. And the portions of protein on his plate were HUGE. And he indicated that he ate ALL of it.

I found that very interesting.

I don't know what to do with that information, but I just found it interesting.

Maybe the diet he and MD follow is very high protein, lower fat?

I don't believe it is high fat.

Maybe that was always my problem on PP/Atkins, I wanted to eat high protein AND high fat.

I'm actually experimenting with higher protein (100g a day instead of my protein minimum of 70g per the old PP method) and the least *added* fat I can get away with, and about 30g a day of "full carbs." Any fat *inside* the food, I don't worry about. Too soon to say whether or not it's helping me lose this vacation weight...but I feel pretty satisfied so far.

I hear ya, Elle! I struggled with that as well, though I think I could get away with it a bit more when weight training.



I have to say that after MUCH trial and error, it seems like this is really the key no matter what, so I do hope you get the results you want! Keep us posted.

I, for one, have tried to stick with high fat and good portions of protein (mostly intuitive right now while pregnant) for satiety and growth support. I've been fighting binges and other carb cravings like never before...some days winning, some days not so much. But I know it helps when I'm allowed liberal use of fats, especially including really good ones.

Yeah, I know it!

I've never actually had any trouble getting to the weight I am right now eating as much protein and fat as I want...but getting lower than about 135 always required eating less protein and fat.

From his blog:

Dr. Eades: “The only polyunsaturated fats I eat that come in supplement or bottled form are fish oils or krill oil and I don’t eat a whole lot of that.”

I asked: "The quote above got me to thinking; do you still believe supplementing with the oils is very helpful? What about the Carlsons Cod Liver oil?"

His response: "It depends on what the underlying diet is. If one doesn’t eat a lot of omega-3 rich foods, i.e., fatty fish, then it helps to supplement. If I had to take only one omega-3 supplement it would be krill oil, but I don’t have to take only one, so I take krill and fish oil at least 4-5 times per week."

Just thought I'd toss that in

And from his blog:

What do you mean the fat "inside" the food? What fat are you counting?

The fat inside the food is the fat inside the food. I don't know how else to say it. Like nuts have fat in them, meat has fat in it, eggs have fat in them. I don't worry about that as "controllable" or "limitable" fat intake. It's inherent to the foods I eat, and I can't do anything about it and I don't concern myself with that fat.

My question to Dr Eades was regarding dresssing veggies with fat after cooking, which I'm sure most of us do. He said he doesn't, and it makes me wonder if I really need to be doing that either? Maybe adding that extra fat doesn't really serve a purpose, except to add calories that could hinder weight loss.

I don't think anybody could look at the picture to which I'm referring in his blog of a meal of his and think that the Eades diet is low fat. The picture was of a huge rib eye steak with what looked to be a good 2 ounces of blue cheese on top. The veggies were grilled and not dressed, however, they were prepared with 'a little olive oil rubbed on them.' If it had been me, I would dressed the veggies, but now I'm thinking maybe I should experiment with not doing that.

I don't "count" fat, really. I don't target it as a minimum, or limit it as a maximum. I just eat what's inside the food and what little I need to prepare the food. I count protein and carbs.

Most simply put I'd say Elle is counting or paying attention to "added fat" only...allowing "naturally occuring fat within food" to simply be part of what she consumes without count or consequence (in terms of numbers/tracking). Is that right, Elle?

I don't add fat to veggies most of the time either.
I use olive oil or butter in my preparation of them and then I roast, grill, stir fry etc. and eat. The thought of adding extra fat to grilled veggies I guess isnt that appealing to me.

That isnt to say that I dont once in a while enjoy making a hollandaise for asparagus or a garlic aioli for roasted artichokes but that is the exception, for me, rather than the norm and it is more of a sauce rather than just adding something like butter or oil.

Maybe he just doesnt see the need to add the extra fat, not because he is trying to stay low fat or afraid of fat but because like me, he just sees no real need for it.

eat your vegtables/salad's raw and douse them in butter or olive oil.

i personally always use olive oil to dress my veggies becuase of the enzymes in it. im sure i read in a previous blog of his that you should always eat fat with veggies becuase alot of the nutrients are fat-soluble.

confusing -.-

This is a great thread Elle - thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Um, as you know, I had to cut out dairy. So that meant no butter either. Suddenly, there was no blue cheese dressing, no ranch dressing, no cheese, no heavy cream. I allowed myself things like a couple of tablespoons of toasted natural almond slices on my salads, or 1/4 of a sliced up avocado with my eggs or what have you to sort of 'compensate', since I guess I was just feeling sorry for myself without the dairy.

The weight loss really picked up pace ...and like you, I don't worry about the fat inside real foods. The fat in a piece of meat, some egg, some fish, nuts or even avocadoes. These foods just don't seem to stall me.

At most, I'll occasionally put a tiny bit of olive oil onto some asparagus spears before roasting them in the oven....but there's no butter or any kind of dressing added. And the food tastes great!

It just occurred to me that this could easily be interpreted as a question of a 'whole foods' approach vs. trying to 'add fat' to one's diet.

I really like your approach to not worrying about 'the fat in the food'. That's what I've been doing too. I just don't add a bunch of stuff to things to bump up the fat. I don't really see a need for this. Not avoiding fats at all, just not adding things on that aren't there in the first place.

This is getting kind of paleo-ish, don't you think?

I think I understand what you are saying -- I guess it would never have occurred to me to "dress" any vegetables other than a salad (with the exception of artichokes, with which I usually have some sort of fat-based dip). I roast most of the vegetables I eat after tossing them with olive oil -- broccoli, asparagus, cauliflower, etc. -- so by your definition, the olive oil would be fat 'in' the food, because it came about in the cooking process? Not to be daft, but most vegetables do not have fat naturally occurring within in them, which is what confused me.

I've always dressed my veggies with butter, b/c mostly I steam them. I know that if I grilled or roasted them, they might taste really good and wouldn't need to be dressed. (BTW, I consider putting the oil them to cook them to be "preparing" and after cooking but before eating to be "dressing" them. I know it's somantics, but I'll bet I "dress" with more fat than I would roast or grill with.)

I'm basically just trying a stint on not adding any more fat than I need to and see what happens.

To show you how confusing it could be would be the example of heavy cream. If I make and eat whipped cream for dessert, then the fat is "inside" the food. If I add it the pan to make a sauce for my meat, it's "added." It's a good thing *I* understand what I'm doing, huh?

I have not had luck with roasting veggies. I didn't like the taste of them. I like broiled tomatoes, however. I like some veggies grilled, like zuchini, yellow squash, red bell peppers and onions, and I like to lightly sprinkle them with oil an vinegar after cooking. I like mushrooms and onions and red bell peppers sauteed in butter and olive oil, but I steam brocoli, cauliflower, green beans and asparagus. But then I have to put butter or a sauce on them to make them edible, of course.

So all in all, my veggies are pretty heavily fatted-up. And I wonder if I need to be doing that.