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  #1   ^
Old Sat, Jul-12-14, 17:44
Hallyth's Avatar
Hallyth Hallyth is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,772
 
Plan: atkins..paleo later
Stats: 182/173/154 Female 68"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: leicestershire, UK
Default talk me into paleo/primal

I have been more or less following Atkins induction. Lost just over a stone, and want to lose another stone at least. I'm looking seriously at primal eating, but not convinced.
Firstly, can I do without dairy? I adore cheese, and also use cream for sauces quite a bit.
Secondly....and one reason I'm considering primal...I miss a load of veggies, nuts and fruit in my diet.....but now I'm scared they will stop me losing? Iloveveggies and fruit but have learnt to eat very very little. Haven't had any fruit for ages.
Your experiences on changing from Atkins to primal?
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  #2   ^
Old Sun, Jul-13-14, 08:12
Hallyth's Avatar
Hallyth Hallyth is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,772
 
Plan: atkins..paleo later
Stats: 182/173/154 Female 68"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: leicestershire, UK
Default

My other issue I forgot to mention is, I live on a canal boat. We move around, so I only get to use shops local to the canal mostly, with occasional trips to other places. We have no freezer either as, of course, we live via battery power and solar. Farm shopping is mostly out for us unless we happen to come across a canal fronted farm.
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  #3   ^
Old Sun, Jul-13-14, 10:20
Liz53's Avatar
Liz53 Liz53 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,140
 
Plan: Mostly Fung/IDM
Stats: 165/138.4/135 Female 63
BF:???/better/???
Progress: 89%
Location: Washington state
Default

Honestly, the only way to know if it will work for you is to try it. Paleo/primal and Atkins are different plans with a huge amount of overlap. Some practice a LC primal, others are able to add tubers without gaining. Some tolerate dairy well, others don't.

If you decide to make the change, I'd do it slowly, making use of the Atkins carb ladder as you go. I'd introduce one new food a week, and be alert to cravings and weight gain. Start with berries and melons and work your way up to starchier veggies and sweeter fruits only if you can tolerate them. You might also google paleo + women because a lot of the paleo info seems to be directed at young athletic men. What they can handle may be quite different than what you can handle as a woman.

The worst that can happen is that you will keep your food choices similar, but eliminate any processed foods you may still be eating and rely more on fresh real foods. Good luck!
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  #4   ^
Old Sun, Jul-13-14, 11:57
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 14,608
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
Default

I went from Atkins to Primal (Paleo with dairy,) and now moving to Epi-Paleo (Dr. Jack Kruse version of Paleo which is heavy on seafood and allows goat and sheep dairy at more advanced levels.)

The reason to drop dairy is to see if it is giving you a problem. Have you stopped losing? Have health issues? Inflammation, sinus, gut, skin: all can be healed if you have a dairy problem, and you drop it. The usual tactic is to do a 30 day challenge where you get off of it and see how you feel. If you feel better, you have the answer.

Also, you can explore goat cheese and coconut cream. Many are surprised and pleased at how well such substitutes work.

But the main thing about Primal/Paleo is how we drop things that are allowed on Atkins, but might not be optimal for us. I initially lost, and was happy on, artificial sweeteners, protein bars, certain processed foods, and the occasional bite of wheat items.

But dropping them has opened up a whole new world of better food, and better health. So it can be a good move if you are not getting the results you want.

Quote:
I miss a load of veggies, nuts and fruit in my diet.....but now I'm scared they will stop me losing?


Most vegetables are extremely low in carbs; nuts can be healthy and I stretch them by using chopped walnuts on salads and other portion controlling tactics. My favorite fruits are berries and I get along with fruit. Some do, and some don't.

All things to consider. But remember: it's never the plan you choose that keeps, or allows, you to eat certain things.

It's how your body reacts to that food which will have meaning for you.
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  #5   ^
Old Sun, Jul-13-14, 12:38
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,324
 
Plan: vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
Default

Kruse seems to favor shellfish, but bottom feeders are more likely to be contaminated with heavy metals and toxins. How does he reconcile that?

On his convoluted website, in one place he says to never eat poultry, but elsewhere he includes it as a breakfast food.

I do find many of the things he says helpful, but many don't seem to be supported by any scientific research, just his absolutist statements.
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  #6   ^
Old Sun, Jul-13-14, 13:14
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 14,608
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deirdra
Kruse seems to favor shellfish, but bottom feeders are more likely to be contaminated with heavy metals and toxins. How does he reconcile that?

On his convoluted website, in one place he says to never eat poultry, but elsewhere he includes it as a breakfast food.

I do find many of the things he says helpful, but many don't seem to be supported by any scientific research, just his absolutist statements.


At the end of every blog post he has a list of cites to published articles.

He is the most confusing guy to follow. The thing is, everything he says is based on context, and different stages of the protocol. But then, he's a working doctor; it's amazing he has time to write this stuff down at all.

He says to eat only wild-caught seafood, and concentrate on small ones like oysters, herring, mackerel which are low on the food chain. Concentrations happen with large fish at the top of the food chain. I was worried about the toxins but he says proper eating helps purge heavy metals and toxins. Seaweed has chelating properties and Omega 3's protect the tissues. After all, the Japanese diet is very high in seafood and sea vegetables, too.

There was a woman on his forum who had spent two years eating this way who had her mercury tested and it was normal. At this point I'm more frightened of supermarket hamburger and those cheap rotisserie chickens.

Mind you, I've only figured out this stuff by spending two weeks reading a whole bunch of posts. You cannot get his advice to make any sense with a few blog posts or a quick read-by.

I'm pretty committed to his program at this point because there's only two doctors on the planet who currently address my issue of cortisol resistance.

One is in Greece, treats patients with genetic issues as the cause, and was kind enough to discuss it via email and confirm that it didn't seem like I was a candidate for her treatment.

The other posts explanations and treatment plans and ways to tell if you have it. And that is Dr. Jack Kruse.

Last edited by WereBear : Sun, Jul-13-14 at 13:19.
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  #7   ^
Old Sun, Jul-13-14, 14:15
Whofan's Avatar
Whofan Whofan is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,550
 
Plan: Low Carb Primal
Stats: 170/135/135 Female 5ft.6in.
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: New York Metro area
Default

I morphed over to primal a couple of years ago. I did gain back a few pounds before realizing that it is not necessarily a low carb w.o.e. Individuals must make their own choices and tweaks to find what is sustainable for them. I lost weight again when I stopped eating starchy veg and too much fruit.

By far the most important and healthiest of the paleo concepts (for my body) was only eating grassfed, pastured, organic foods whenever possible and eliminating everything processed, packaged, and churned out from a factory even if the advertising says it's low carb. It's an expensive way to go, but I find that I'm usually satiated on one wholesome, moderate-sized meal a day plus my morning bullet proof coffee. Not eating the conventional three meals a day plus snacks makes primal surprisingly affordable for me. Oh, and no longer slugging down bottles of wine also helps the budget.

I gave up milk and yogurt but kept small amounts of grassfed cheese and actually increased my consumption of grassfed butter. I continue to drink coffee and blend butter and coconut oil into it every morning instead of cream. So you see, how you "work" the paleo/primal concept varies from person to person. Some purists would be horrified at my interpretation and that's okay. It works beautifully for me.

In the beginning I found it difficult to find natural food. It took some perseverance and effort. I do think that living on the canal could make sourcing natural food a little challenging for you. You can't just pop into a farmer's market, farm, or organic food store whenever you feel like it. On the other hand, there is generally much wider access to wholesome food in the UK, you also find Australian and New Zealand lamb (pastured) in every grocery store, and all codfish is wild-caught because it is too big to farm profitably (a fishmonger told me). So it might take a while to sort it all out, but I'm sure it can be done. Good luck, hope you enjoy the experience!
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  #8   ^
Old Sun, Jul-13-14, 14:52
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 14,608
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whofan
Oh, and no longer slugging down bottles of wine also helps the budget.


Not encouraging you to imbibe, but I am certain that there were people in Paleolithic times who had figured out how to make those "magic berries" that appeared in the fall.
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  #9   ^
Old Sun, Jul-13-14, 15:22
Whofan's Avatar
Whofan Whofan is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,550
 
Plan: Low Carb Primal
Stats: 170/135/135 Female 5ft.6in.
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: New York Metro area
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
Not encouraging you to imbibe, but I am certain that there were people in Paleolithic times who had figured out how to make those "magic berries" that appeared in the fall.

Oh trust me, Were, I would never have started my primal journey unless I believed that my ancestors came across fermented fruit and liked the buzz it gave them - and if it was good enough for my ancestors then.....

But there was a time when I used to think wine came in bottles for the same reason bread came in loaves, because they were meant to be consumed that way, lol. The beauty part of primal is that it completely got me out of the habit of bringing home a bottle of wine to chug down and, when out with friends, two glasses is enough now - plus I get to wake up next morning feeling well instead of ill!
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  #10   ^
Old Sun, Jul-13-14, 15:33
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 14,608
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whofan
The beauty part of primal is that it completely got me out of the habit of bringing home a bottle of wine to chug down and, when out with friends, two glasses is enough now - plus I get to wake up next morning feeling well instead of ill!


Yep. If they had told me years ago that "satisfaction" was the key to "portion control" I never would have eaten off of coffee saucers
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  #11   ^
Old Sun, Jul-13-14, 15:59
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Paleo can be as low carb as you need it to be. My version doesn't include dairy, but I do have dairy from time to time. I just do better without it.

Yes, dairy isn't easy to quit, but the hardest part of quitting dairy is thinking about quitting dairy. It is easier to actually just do it.
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