Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low-Carb Studies & Research / Media Watch > LC Research/Media
User Name
Password
FAQ Members Calendar Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16   ^
Old Tue, Sep-27-16, 04:36
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,440
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

My guess would be the lobbying $$ of beef, pork, eggs and dairy are a drop in the bucket compared to General Mills, Kraft, Nestle, Monsanto for corn and soy production, sugar, etc.

Belinda Fettke has posted a brochure that will be distributed to GPs in Australia to explain WHY sugar is needed in Food...mouthfeel, freshness, color, etc...not health. The comments are fun... https://www.facebook.com/belindanof...128227327271717
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #17   ^
Old Tue, Sep-27-16, 04:42
Bintang's Avatar
Bintang Bintang is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 258
 
Plan: MyOwn:CHO<90g/d
Stats: 207/149/150 Male 169 cm
BF:40%/17%/18%
Progress: 102%
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by inflammabl
Yeah, that's a good point. So the low fat people made their case. Made their case in a mendacious way. So where WAS the push back from the low carb manufacturers like the pork board? "The other white meat"? In the marketplace of ideas one isle of ideas was notably bare.


Isn't that the source of Phinney and Volek's research funding?
Reply With Quote
  #18   ^
Old Wed, Sep-28-16, 06:59
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 14,684
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/130/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 129%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
My guess would be the lobbying $$ of beef, pork, eggs and dairy are a drop in the bucket compared to General Mills, Kraft, Nestle, Monsanto for corn and soy production, sugar, etc.


In addition, I would say that what I call the "Puritan attitude" also pushed things against meat and fat. This boils down to: if it feels good, it's WRONG.

This is a terrible guide to life, which has actually evolved to encourage us to do life-enhancing things. When I eat a steak, I enjoy it, AND I feel good afterwards. (This was Hemingway's definition of a moral act ) From sex to beautiful sunsets, pleasure is a good guide to what makes us keep ticking.

Because look at what food has become: not rational science, but "moral acts." Choosing tofu over pork chops, granola over Fruit Loops, skim milk instead of heavy cream are all virtuous choices. They "feel" better for you because they are not as body-pleasurable.

It is so messed up.
Reply With Quote
  #19   ^
Old Wed, Sep-28-16, 13:46
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,328
 
Plan: vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
Default

Dr. Kellogg invented cereal and promoted colonics and meat-free diets to lower people's libidos. If you've never seen it, the comedy/drama movie "Road to Wellville" (1994) shows how these Puritans helped improve peoples' virtues. Apparently nymphomaniacs were a scourge before 1/2 cup Special K with 1/4 cup skim milk became widely available.

One problem with the focus on "Big Sugar" is that, although we know it includes starches, the average layperson does not. That's why "healthywholegrains" and fruity juice-boxes are pushed as being entirely different from table sugar and candy.

Last edited by deirdra : Wed, Sep-28-16 at 15:50.
Reply With Quote
  #20   ^
Old Wed, Sep-28-16, 18:35
MickiSue MickiSue is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,006
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 189/148.6/145 Female 5' 5"
BF:36%/28%/25%
Progress: 92%
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deirdra
. Apparently nymphomaniacs were a scourge before 1/2 cup Special K with 1/4 cup skim milk became widely available.


Best quote of the day.

Oh, hell. Best quote of the week.
Reply With Quote
  #21   ^
Old Thu, Sep-29-16, 00:56
Bintang's Avatar
Bintang Bintang is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 258
 
Plan: MyOwn:CHO<90g/d
Stats: 207/149/150 Male 169 cm
BF:40%/17%/18%
Progress: 102%
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deirdra
Apparently nymphomaniacs were a scourge before 1/2 cup Special K with 1/4 cup skim milk became widely available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MickiSue
Best quote of the day.

Oh, hell. Best quote of the week.
And best insight of the last few decades because I've been wondering where they all went. Haven't been able to find one for ages.
Reply With Quote
  #22   ^
Old Wed, Apr-12-17, 22:17
bike2work bike2work is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,536
 
Plan: Fung-inspired fasting
Stats: 336/000/160 Female 5' 9"
BF:
Progress: 191%
Location: Seattle metro area
Default How the Sugar Industry Shifted Blame to Fat

How the Sugar Industry Shifted Blame to Fat

Quote:
How the Sugar Industry Shifted Blame to Fat

Anahad O’Connor

Even though the influence-peddling revealed in the documents dates back nearly 50 years, more recent reports show that the food industry has continued to influence nutrition science.

Last year, an article in The New York Times revealed that Coca-Cola, the world’s largest producer of sugary beverages, had provided millions of dollars in funding to researchers who sought to play down the link between sugary drinks and obesity. In June, The Associated Press reported that candy makers were funding studies that claimed that children who eat candy tend to weigh less than those who do not.

The Harvard scientists and the sugar executives with whom they collaborated are no longer alive. One of the scientists who was paid by the sugar industry was D. Mark Hegsted, who went on to become the head of nutrition at the United States Department of Agriculture, where in 1977 he helped draft the forerunner to the federal government’s dietary guidelines. Another was Dr. Fredrick J. Stare, the chairman of Harvard’s nutrition department.

In a statement responding to the JAMA journal report, the Sugar Association said that the 1967 review was published at a time when medical journals did not typically require researchers to disclose funding sources. The New England Journal of Medicine did not begin to require financial disclosures until 1984.

The industry “should have exercised greater transparency in all of its research activities,” the Sugar Association statement said. Even so, it defended industry-funded research as playing an important and informative role in scientific debate. It said that several decades of research had concluded that sugar “does not have a unique role in heart disease.”

The revelations are important because the debate about the relative harms of sugar and saturated fat continues today, Dr. Glantz said. For many decades, health officials encouraged Americans to reduce their fat intake, which led many people to consume low-fat, high-sugar foods that some experts now blame for fueling the obesity crisis.

“It was a very smart thing the sugar industry did, because review papers, especially if you get them published in a very prominent journal, tend to shape the overall scientific discussion,” he said.

Dr. Hegsted used his research to influence the government’s dietary recommendations, which emphasized saturated fat as a driver of heart disease while largely characterizing sugar as empty calories linked to tooth decay. Today, the saturated fat warnings remain a cornerstone of the government’s dietary guidelines, though in recent years the American Heart Association, the World Health Organization and other health authorities have also begun to warn that too much added sugar may increase cardiovascular disease risk.

Marion Nestle, a professor of nutrition, food studies and public health at New York University, wrote an editorial accompanying the new paper in which she said the documents provided “compelling evidence” that the sugar industry had initiated research “expressly to exonerate sugar as a major risk factor for coronary heart disease.”

“I think it’s appalling,” she said. “You just never see examples that are this blatant.”

Dr. Walter Willett, chairman of the nutrition department at the Harvard T. H. Chan School of Public Health, said that academic conflict-of-interest rules had changed significantly since the 1960s, but that the industry papers were a reminder of “why research should be supported by public funding rather than depending on industry funding.”

Dr. Willett said the researchers had limited data to assess the relative risks of sugar and fat. “Given the data that we have today, we have shown the refined carbohydrates and especially sugar-sweetened beverages are risk factors for cardiovascular disease, but that the type of dietary fat is also very important,” he said.

The JAMA Internal Medicine paper relied on thousands of pages of correspondence and other documents that Cristin E. Kearns, a postdoctoral fellow at U.C.S.F., discovered in archives at Harvard, the University of Illinois and other libraries.

The documents show that in 1964, John Hickson, a top sugar industry executive, discussed a plan with others in the industry to shift public opinion “through our research and information and legislative programs.”

At the time, studies had begun pointing to a relationship between high-sugar diets and the country’s high rates of heart disease. At the same time, other scientists, including the prominent Minnesota physiologist Ancel Keys, were investigating a competing theory that it was saturated fat and dietary cholesterol that posed the biggest risk for heart disease.

Mr. Hickson proposed countering the alarming findings on sugar with industry-funded research. “Then we can publish the data and refute our detractors,” he wrote.

In 1965, Mr. Hickson enlisted the Harvard researchers to write a review that would debunk the anti-sugar studies. He paid them a total of $6,500, the equivalent of $49,000 today. Mr. Hickson selected the papers for them to review and made it clear he wanted the result to favor sugar.

Harvard’s Dr. Hegsted reassured the sugar executives. “We are well aware of your particular interest,” he wrote, “and will cover this as well as we can.”

As they worked on their review, the Harvard researchers shared and discussed early drafts with Mr. Hickson, who responded that he was pleased with what they were writing. The Harvard scientists had dismissed the data on sugar as weak and given far more credence to the data implicating saturated fat.

“Let me assure you this is quite what we had in mind, and we look forward to its appearance in print,” Mr. Hickson wrote.

After the review was published, the debate about sugar and heart disease died down, while low-fat diets gained the endorsement of many health authorities, Dr. Glantz said.

“By today’s standards, they behaved very badly,” he said.



Reply With Quote
  #23   ^
Old Thu, Apr-13-17, 04:11
raun01 raun01 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 29
 
Plan: my own designed
Stats: 276/267/200 Male 5.4
BF:
Progress:
Default

Interesting article..nice share
Reply With Quote
  #24   ^
Old Thu, Apr-13-17, 11:07
inflammabl's Avatar
inflammabl inflammabl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,371
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 296/220/205 Male 71 inches
BF:25%?
Progress: 84%
Location: Upstate SC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bintang
Isn't that the source of Phinney and Volek's research funding?

Don't know. That's a good question. I have not investigated their funding resources. I did take a cursory look at one point but nothing stuck in my head.

My take on a lot of the LC research is that it was focused on athletic performance trying to interest the USOC. The USOC is remarkably involved, as they should be, in funding sports science stuff. My thought on that topic is that the sports community, especially Champions League teams, would be very interested if they were able to improve athletic performance, especially endurance under stress, and the fact that none of them have switched to LC indicates that for some reason, probably a good reason, they consciously decided not to.

Of course that has nothing to do with weight loss.
Reply With Quote
  #25   ^
Old Thu, Apr-13-17, 11:34
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

If low carb is an advantage in sports, maybe it's most likely to be an advantage in people who just don't do very well on carbs. Prime of life athletes don't need to feel as if they're in their 20's again, they're actually in their 20's. I doubt I could outrun 20 year old me if we both ate a high carb diet, but keto me today can outrun high carb me today, although it might just come down to the 30 pound difference in our weights.
Reply With Quote
  #26   ^
Old Thu, Apr-13-17, 12:09
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,328
 
Plan: vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
Default

High carb me could never outrun low carb me at any age or weight because grains, legumes & dairy caused me allergy-induced asthma attacks. Even as a normal-weight kid I had a hard time doing the 50-yard dash in an acceptable time because of my lungs, not my legs. No grains, no legumes & no dairy proteins = no asthma, in my case.

High carbs also hold on to more water, making one heavier and not feeling like a gazelle.
Reply With Quote
  #27   ^
Old Thu, Apr-13-17, 13:47
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 5,313
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Vermont
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deirdra
High carb me could never outrun low carb me at any age or weight because grains, legumes & dairy caused me allergy-induced asthma attacks. Even as a normal-weight kid I had a hard time doing the 50-yard dash in an acceptable time because of my lungs, not my legs. No grains, no legumes & no dairy proteins = no asthma, in my case.

High carbs also hold on to more water, making one heavier and not feeling like a gazelle.


My asthma has disappeared as well with no grains, no dairy, no legumes (also no eggs).

Jean
Reply With Quote
  #28   ^
Old Thu, Apr-13-17, 15:46
inflammabl's Avatar
inflammabl inflammabl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,371
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 296/220/205 Male 71 inches
BF:25%?
Progress: 84%
Location: Upstate SC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
If low carb is an advantage in sports, maybe it's most likely to be an advantage in people who just don't do very well on carbs. Prime of life athletes don't need to feel as if they're in their 20's again, they're actually in their 20's. I doubt I could outrun 20 year old me if we both ate a high carb diet, but keto me today can outrun high carb me today, although it might just come down to the 30 pound difference in our weights.


Another good point, maybe.

There is the selection factor. CL teams select players that they think will respond to their training system. Effective hard work always beats talent it just takes time. Their problem is spotting those players who will grow in their system. They get it very right sometimes, Barcelona signed Xavi at age 6. 6!

So we can say confidently that CL teams who spot players they like see no advantage to LC for the players they selected.

Does that mean there is a window for LC to slip into, for athletic performance? I really, really doubt it.
Reply With Quote
  #29   ^
Old Fri, Apr-14-17, 08:00
WyoDiva's Avatar
WyoDiva WyoDiva is offline
Clueless. ODAAT.
Posts: 10,845
 
Plan: Intuitive Eating
Stats: 290.6/290.6/180 Female 5'10"
BF:I do not care!
Progress: 0%
Location: Helena Montana USA
Default

Wow. Just wow. It's not a surprise, but finding proof of it is.
Reply With Quote
  #30   ^
Old Fri, Apr-14-17, 08:41
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

Quote:
Dr. Walter Willett, chairman of the nutrition department at the Harvard T. H. Chan School of Public Health, said that academic conflict-of-interest rules had changed significantly since the 1960s, but that the industry papers were a reminder of “why research should be supported by public funding rather than depending on industry funding.”


To me, this statement by Willett comes down to "my conflicts of interests are better than your conflicts of interest." The correct conclusion isn't that scientists with this or that source of funding are more reliable. Question everything, question everybody. "This came out of Harvard, and is goverment-funded, so must be correct," is every bit as wackadoodle as the same assumption being made about an industry funded Harvard study would be.

Reducing funding sources to government just creates more of a bottleneck, and potentially a more homogenous funding bias, I doubt that's a good thing.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:37.


Copyright © 2000-2024 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.