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  #1   ^
Old Fri, Mar-19-04, 09:39
maggieb's Avatar
maggieb maggieb is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 383
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 214/204/140 Female 5'2"
BF:49%/26%/25%
Progress: 14%
Location: Southwest Ontario
Default Starvation Mode,low calories, metabolism

Hi All,
I am very confused.
DR. A talks in his book about the metabolically challenged going on 1000 calorie a day diets, fat fast etc.

Then we are also are told that if we don't eat enough we won't lose! Which is it???
I have a hard time eating enough and am wondering if I should worry about it or just carry on. I usually eat about 1200 cals a day which according to my current weight is not enough expecially now that I exercise!

Have been in a 6 week stall.

Anyway just wondering what others thoughts are on this....
Everything you read says calories do count to some degree. I have been on Atkins for five months and have done very well so I am quite happy and feel great but just wondering what others think about this. I guess I shouldn't be complaining about no appetite NEVER had that problem before
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  #2   ^
Old Fri, Mar-19-04, 09:43
B.B.B.'s Avatar
B.B.B. B.B.B. is offline
New Member
Posts: 25
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 150/132/110 Female 5'5
BF:37%
Progress: 45%
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Question

Can you list a sample of what you eat in a day...how many hours between meals and water consumption?
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Mar-19-04, 09:52
4beans4me's Avatar
4beans4me 4beans4me is offline
Anyone?? Bueller?
Posts: 16,240
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 140/135/125 Female 5'5
BF:
Progress: 33%
Default

Maggie, try upping your calories a bit. Your body may very well be in starvation mode, especially since you are exercising. I personally lost consistently at 1500-1600 calories a day, 20ish carbs, and that was with no exercise.
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  #4   ^
Old Fri, Mar-19-04, 09:59
maggieb's Avatar
maggieb maggieb is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 383
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 214/204/140 Female 5'2"
BF:49%/26%/25%
Progress: 14%
Location: Southwest Ontario
Default

Hi BBB,

I drink about 5 litres of water a day not much else maybe 1 or two cups of green tea.
Breakfast 2-3 strips of bacon 1 or 2 eggs, sometimes a slice of LC bread

Lunch Protein Drink with some berries, small salad

Supper meat(small 2-3 oz pork chop, or steak or chicken fried in olive oil, and salad or veggie Cauliflower broccoli etc with butter)
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  #5   ^
Old Fri, Mar-19-04, 10:00
Rosie Real's Avatar
Rosie Real Rosie Real is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 658
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 293/257/155 Female 5' 8"
BF:
Progress: 26%
Location: East Coast, USA
Default

It could just be that you need to up your fat, which will naturally up your calories.

You've done great so far!
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  #6   ^
Old Fri, Mar-19-04, 10:01
FrecklFluf's Avatar
FrecklFluf FrecklFluf is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,125
 
Plan: SB (formerly Atkins)
Stats: 196.5/167/140 Female 5' 4
BF:
Progress: 52%
Location: Kansas City, MO USA
Default

The thing is that if you drastically lower your calorie intake, eventually you will lose weight; that's why people die of starvation. BUT, for the short term, I find that I lose more quickly if I keep my calorie intake up around 1500 a day.

And anyway, Dr. A is not talking about just 1000 calories, he is talking about a fat fast, which is 90% fat. That's different than what most of us would be eating at 1000 cals a day.
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  #7   ^
Old Fri, Mar-19-04, 10:01
ValerieL's Avatar
ValerieL ValerieL is offline
Bouncy!
Posts: 9,388
 
Plan: Atkins Maintenance
Stats: 297/173.3/150 Female 5'7" (top weight 340)
BF:41%/31%/??%
Progress: 84%
Location: Burlington, ON
Default

I don't think it was only the 1000 calories that makes the fat fast work, it's also the 90% calories from fat. And it's not a long term thing, only 3 - 5 days, so 3 - 5 days isn't going to be enough to depress your metabolism sharply (I hate the term starvation mode, I don't think it's accurate, I think what happens is our metabolism adjusts to the low calories because that all it thinks it's going to get).

I'd try upping the calories too. I recently read an article, sorry don't have the link, though I'll look for it, talking about how you have to eat at least as many calories as your basal metabolism is to avoid depressing your metabolism. I'd think that is much closer to 1600-2000 calories for you than 1200.

I'll see if I can find the link.

That said however, everyone is different, I've heard of people having great success on low-calorie Atkins too, keeping calories to 1000 or less. Not that it sounds like fun, yuck!

Valerie
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  #8   ^
Old Fri, Mar-19-04, 10:04
teresamay's Avatar
teresamay teresamay is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 750
 
Plan: Atkins Induction
Stats: 270/215/150 Female 5'4
BF:not sure
Progress: 46%
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Default

I was told the same thing - to get calories at 10x my weight. I just started doing this, so I am also waiting to see what happens...I do a lot of excersize, adn don't think I was eating enough..funny how the fear of food and fat is so ingrained..

good luck
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  #9   ^
Old Fri, Mar-19-04, 10:04
ValerieL's Avatar
ValerieL ValerieL is offline
Bouncy!
Posts: 9,388
 
Plan: Atkins Maintenance
Stats: 297/173.3/150 Female 5'7" (top weight 340)
BF:41%/31%/??%
Progress: 84%
Location: Burlington, ON
Default

Now, I'm not sure of the source for this article, I just found it on another board, but here is the article I was talking about.

Basal Metabolism Explained

Atkins: Count Carbs? Count Calories? What Gives?

By Regina Schumann

Induction
When you first start Induction, you're told again and again not to count calories! For the most part, this is good advice. The focus of Induction is to help you put aside the conventional wisdom that you have to count calories, restrict fat intake and limit your food intake to tiny portions if you want to lose weight. The fallacies about each of these recommendations are clearly explained in Dr. Atkins' New Diet Revolution.

With Atkins, you're told you'll lose weight if you can ignore what you've been told for years and just count your carbohydrate intake. For the majority of people who begin Induction, this simple recommendation works well - they start Induction, follow it for two weeks, and find at the end of that time they've lost an acceptable amount of weight...leaving them motivated to continue on with the way of eating.

For some, however, their Induction losses are less than anticipated and the reason is often chalked up to "high resistance" to losing weight. Now, let me be clear here, for some of those who lose little to nothing in Induction, the reason is indeed a high level of resistance to losing weight, and they do need to evaluate their options to break through that resistance to stimulate their weight-loss.

For many though, the reason, when their menu is evaluated, comes right down to calorie intake. Often calories are too low, sometimes they're too high. Both exceptions have the same result however - zero to minimal weight-loss in Induction. The reason for this is the body's response to calorie intake being restricted too much or too many calories available without enough energy expenditure to use them up, so they are stored for use later as fat.

Based on my experience thus far helping those who are starting Atkins, of 100 people who start, 80 fall within acceptable calorie intake without counting calories, 5 eat too many calories to lose in Induction and may gain weight and 15 eat too few calories to lose effectively on Induction. So, for now I will explain for those who are eating too few calories why that makes it near impossible for them to lose weight effectively.

Basal Metabolism Explained
The human body works with energy to function. This energy comes from foods eaten and the calories it provides. The very minimum the body needs are calories required for the energy needed to meet the needs for basic function - blood flow, respiration, heartbeat, brain function, regulation of body temperature, nerve impulses, etc. - called the "Basal Metabolism". The energy required by the body averages 70% of calories required each day!

When calorie intake is restricted to levels below the Basal Metabolism, the body restricts its requirement for calories by conserving energy expenditure - it slows the body's base requirement to survive in order to conserve it's energy stores for an emergency (fight or flight responses). This is often referred to as "starvation mode" because the body is convinced it is starving and enters into a metabolic state that will conserve energy to allow survival for extended periods without sufficient calorie intake.

Entering into "starvation mode" does not happen overnight, but takes an extended period of time - typically one week to one month, depending on how severely restricted calories are. The more calories are restricted, the faster the body will seek survival and enter into metabolic conservation of energy.

On calorie restricted diets, this is often the state one finds himself in after a couple of weeks or months following a low-calorie diet. Weight-loss slows to a crawl or stalls completely and hunger pangs are more frequent as the body screams for the calories it needs. The same effect can be seen with those following a carbohydrate-restricting plan when they do not eat enough calories each day.

A person's Basal Metabolism is completely individual. It is based on a number of factors that include age, gender, height, and weight. A 35 year-old female, standing 5'5" tall and weighing 200 pounds will have a higher Basal Metabolism than a 35 year-old female standing 5'5" tall and weighing only 150 pounds. While they both are the same height, gender and age, their weight differences create a disparity in their basal metabolic needs, with the person who is heavier requiring more calories each day to support basic function. It is for this reason there is no standard guideline to use for everyone - Basal Metabolism must be calculated for the individual, not an age group, gender group or height group alone.

Losing Weight
In order to effectively be able to lose weight, one must meet the basic requirements of the body. It must meet the energy requirements for their Basal Metabolism so that they can avoid entering into starvation mode.

You can calculate out your Basal Metabolic Rate at our online Basal Metabolism Calculator

You want to take your Basal Metabolic rate that is returned and use that number as your minimum calories to eat each day. Most women can consume up to 200 calories a day above their basal metabolic rate and continue to lose weight. Most men can consume an additional 350 calories above their basal metabolic rate and continue to lose weight.

To help you understand fully - your Active Metabolic rate, is the calories you use each day to meet your Basal Metabolic needs and also support your movement/activity each day.

You need to make sure your body gets the calories it needs for basic function - the Basal Metabolism - you should restrict your calories only for what you'll need for energy beyond that requirement - your body will know it is having it's basic metabolic needs met and utilize it's stores (your body fat) for energy needed above and beyond your base requirements without entering into starvation mode.

So be sure you eat at least enough calories to meet your basal metabolic needs.

As you lose weight, re-assess your Basal Metabolic rate at each loss of ten pounds. Your Basal Metabolism lowers as you lose weight and near your goal weight.

Remaining at Induction Levels, moving to OWL and Beyond....
Once you have finished the first two weeks of Induction, it is even easier to fall into a pattern of not eating enough calories. By the time you've completed the first two weeks, are well into ketosis and continuing along, your appetite is diminished almost to the point of non-existence.

Many who finished Induction with incredible results sometimes find a few weeks later they've stalled or stopped losing. While it's often PISS (Post Induction Stall Syndrome) that causes this slowing of weight-loss to allow the body to adjust to the metabolic state of ketosis and slow losses to a healthier rate for the long-term, it is sometimes starvation mode sneaking up on you as you've unwittingly reduced calories each day and not realized it.

More often than not, calories become an issue after Induction for a good number of people. As they lose weight and keep losing, they need to make sure they're eating enough calories, but not too many, to effectively keep their weight-loss potential stimulated.

The converse is also true - that for a good number of people, calorie intake rises too higher levels as carbs are added in along with additional fats and calories.

Understanding how to transition between phases is something that I've continued to question in Atkins' books - he simply does not explain it well and doesn't provide any cautions when one is adding carbs that are calorie dense, like nuts & seeds or additional fats to the additional vegetables or additional cream on those strawberries! By not providing cautions for the additions, many wind up adding more calories and come too close or exceed their Active Metabolism unwittingly - and slow or stall losses completely.

So at any point in your weight-loss where you are stalling (and a stall is a month or more without losing any weight on the scale or inches in your measurements) - it is time to assess your calorie intake.

Run your numbers through the calculator and make sure you're eating enough to meet your Basal Metabolic requirements - if you're falling short, eat more! Eat enough to meet those needs and get yourself out of starvation mode.

If you find you're eating at or exceeding your Active Metabolism, restrict your calories to lower levels that are still at or higher than your Basal Metabolism but lower than your Active Metabolism.

A good place to keep track of your calorie intake is at FitDay - it's free and it's easy to use.

Lifetime Maintenance
When you've reached your goal weight, you must adjust your calorie intake now to support not only your Basal Metabolism, but also your Active Metabolism - eating enough calories each day to meet your Active Metabolic rate. If you remain under your Active Metabolic rate, you'll continue to lose, if you exceed it too often, you'll gain. Once you find the calorie intake that allows you to maintain, at the carb level that your body can tolerate, that is where you target your calorie intake at. Assess this each month or so that you make any changes to your activity levels or experience a gain or loss of three or more pounds.

HTH
Valerie
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  #10   ^
Old Fri, Mar-19-04, 10:05
bonesigh's Avatar
bonesigh bonesigh is offline
Gettin' Close
Posts: 4,140
 
Plan: LC
Stats: 274/220.6/210 Male 6'2"
BF:33/23/15
Progress: 83%
Location: NYC
Default

Hi Maggie:

I agree with what the others have said about increasing your daily caloric intake. Try it and see.

Mike
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  #11   ^
Old Fri, Mar-19-04, 10:15
maggieb's Avatar
maggieb maggieb is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 383
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 214/204/140 Female 5'2"
BF:49%/26%/25%
Progress: 14%
Location: Southwest Ontario
Default

Thanks everyone,
really appreciate all the input and help!!!

I will eat more .....I never thought I would be thinking that I would have to TRY to eat more!!!
I did a report in fitday and there are days were my basal and activities caloric output is twice my input!!! Yikes..... I guess I better smarten up.....here is my link of what I have been eating for those that want to look...I don't input very often.......
Thanks again


http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/Public...Owner=Marg+Boyd
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  #12   ^
Old Fri, Mar-19-04, 10:26
ValerieL's Avatar
ValerieL ValerieL is offline
Bouncy!
Posts: 9,388
 
Plan: Atkins Maintenance
Stats: 297/173.3/150 Female 5'7" (top weight 340)
BF:41%/31%/??%
Progress: 84%
Location: Burlington, ON
Default

Not to get hopelessly boring about this I hope, but I recently posted this elsewhere, my own personal little theory on metabolism. Not scientific in any way, I have no medical background, just my ideas about what could be happening.

We keep having these debates as to whether there is a starvation mode for metabolism or not. Some pro, some against the theory. I've been thinking (especially after reading the article on basal metabolism posted here a few days ago contrasted with sharp weight losses experienced while fasting) and wondering if it isn't possible that they are both right.

Is it possible that if you lower calories drastically enough, to almost zero or well under 1000, then the body knows you are starving and will burn fat intensely to keep your energy up and health strong so that you will have the energy to go out and hunt or fish or whatever the cavemen needed to do to get more food? That would explain the quick weight losses experienced with true starvation levels of calories.

But on the other hand, if you merely lower your calories to a very low, but biologically sustainable level, like 1100-1300 say, your body loses quickly at first, thinking it needs to keep your energy up for that hunting and fishing, but that after you've been doing it a long while your body realizes it isn't getting any more food than that and it better learn to live in the long term on that amount? Your body knows it can get all the nutrients it needs from that level of calories so the need entice you to go out and eat more with quick weight loss and high energy isn't necessary and it goes into a conservation mode? So metabolism is sharply depressed so that the body can live on that little calories without losing much protection (i.e. bodyfat).

And I wonder if time has anything to do with it. Maybe it just takes alot of time before that metabolic conservation mode kicks in, maybe that's why some never seem to see it happen for them, they don't have to diet long enough to see it happen.



Valerie

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  #13   ^
Old Fri, Mar-19-04, 10:26
4beans4me's Avatar
4beans4me 4beans4me is offline
Anyone?? Bueller?
Posts: 16,240
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 140/135/125 Female 5'5
BF:
Progress: 33%
Default

Maggie girl, start yourself a journal!
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  #14   ^
Old Fri, Mar-19-04, 10:33
maggieb's Avatar
maggieb maggieb is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 383
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 214/204/140 Female 5'2"
BF:49%/26%/25%
Progress: 14%
Location: Southwest Ontario
Default

You are right, I should start a journal!!! I just never got around to it...I figured I wouldn't have much to say but it may help me keep on track....and eat more.....
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  #15   ^
Old Fri, Mar-19-04, 10:47
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,866
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

I think fat fast is only done for a few days at a time while someone else might do 1200 calories for months at a time. When I did Nutrisystem, 17 or so years ago, that's how many calories they had us on and the weightloss for me was very slow. Took me 9 months on that to lose 69 pounds. And I never cheated and exercised a ton.
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