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  #1   ^
Old Tue, Mar-14-17, 18:12
Whited Whited is offline
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Posts: 299
 
Plan: Very Low Carb
Stats: 312/235/185 Male 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 61%
Location: Missouri
Default Water fasting and blood pressure

hi. Dennis here -- I am struggling with high blood pressure and the doctor has tried me on a couple of drugs. I'm also diabetic but am controlling my BG with LC diet for over 2 years now. I was cheating some the last year but now I'm back on a stricter low carb diet again. I even cut diet sodas with splenda etc. out. I have noticed my blood sugars are good and low again -- 68 fasting and 81-83 2 hours after I eat. Also I've been losing some weight again. But my blood pressure is still high. I'm taking 160mg valsartin but it has no effect. He wanted me to take a thiozide diuretic but they are known to raise blood sugars so I got off it. He wants me on a calcium blocker also but the one he suggested raises blood sugars -- the one (that I researched) that doesn't rasie blood sugars lowers them quite a bit (and mine are already acceptably low).

Here's my question. I've read on the internet a lot about a 10 day water only fast lowering blood pressure a significant amount. Of course many sites want you on a vegatarian diet afterword. I'd stick with low carb. Do you think a 10 day fast would be too much as I'm already low carb? I wonder, if I try this, if I should wean off the valsartim before I try this. The doctor probably would freak (he's a drugs first type of doctor) but I'm wondering if anyone has noticed a reduction of moderatly high blood pressure from a 10 day water only fast. Should I cease Co Q10 vit. D fish oil etc. while on the fast?

Thanks for your thoughts

Dennis
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  #2   ^
Old Tue, Mar-14-17, 20:40
Rosebud's Avatar
Rosebud Rosebud is offline
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Posts: 23,881
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 235/135/135 Female 5'4
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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I'm sorry, Dennis, but this forum does not support water fasting. Please read admin Doreen's post on this matter below:
Quote:
Concerns have been raised over the increased use of extended water-only fasts and other forms of severely restricted nourishment for prolonged periods of time. This is in contrast to the various published IF (Intermittent Fasting) protocols which advocate short-duration "fasts" of 18 to 24 hours, with optimal nutrition on non-fasting days in between.

Short-duration IF has been shown to be safe for weight loss in overweight and obese adults. However, even the expert authors of these IF programs recommend prolonged fasting ONLY under medical supervision. Here at Active Low-Carber, we are in full agreement with this position.

Please note that Forum Rule #2 states:
Quote:
... It is beyond the scope of our support community to prescribe a diet plan for you, so we encourage you to consult your doctor and read one or more of the published program books. Once you've decided which plan is right for you, we are here to help you along the way. Please note, we only discuss published plans, not proprietary, clinic-only type of plans as these require personal and/or professional supervision, and we cannot give medical advice or service..
Thus .. seeking support, encouragement and/or promotion of prolonged fasting is consdered beyond the scope of this forum and such discussion is not appropriate here. We understand that some members may indeed be under medical supervision for such a regimen; if they want to document their experience it should be confined to the relative privacy of their journal.


Thanks for understanding,
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showpost...3&postcount=241

I would suggest you go back to your doctor and discuss your concerns about the drugs with him.
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, Mar-14-17, 21:32
Whited Whited is offline
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Posts: 299
 
Plan: Very Low Carb
Stats: 312/235/185 Male 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 61%
Location: Missouri
Default

Thanks -- I understand -- I didn't know about the stand on fasting here. You can delete this entire post if you thisk it will cause confusion.

Dennis
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  #4   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-17, 13:34
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GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Posts: 4,036
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Dennis - agree with the caution about a water fast. Doesn't make any sense. I'd continue with what you're doing, as it takes time to bring your BP down once you achieve some insulin sensitivity. Be patient, as the changes you've made recently should bring some positive results. Certain BP meds such as beta blockers can slow weight gain, but you're on a newer class with valsartin, and you should be able to accomplish a lot by staying consistent with a very low carb WOE. Stay very low with carbs and moderate to low with protein. With your current situation, I wouldn't add a lot of fat to your diet, but don't be afraid of healthy fats and stay away from the seed oil fats like canola and the others of that ilk. Good luck! This is manageable and you will find the exact combination that makes it work for you.
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  #5   ^
Old Thu, Mar-16-17, 12:32
Whited Whited is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 299
 
Plan: Very Low Carb
Stats: 312/235/185 Male 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 61%
Location: Missouri
Default

Thanks -- I've been low carb for 2 1/2 years. I did cheat a bit this last year but not a lot.

I'll have to look at a more extreme paleo diet on this forum. I would assume it cuts out more dairy thatn I've been doing. I might do a shorter interm. fasting regime again. Maybe 36 hour with bone broth and decaf. green tea.

Thanks again

Dennis
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  #6   ^
Old Thu, May-18-17, 10:27
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Megabux Megabux is offline
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Posts: 158
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 311/224.4/185 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 69%
Location: New Jersey, USA
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Hi, I missed your thread earlier but I just posted one on a similar topic: elevated bllod pressure while on LCHF. One thing that is written in the literature is that if you don't get enough salt, potassium and/or magnesium through your diet the diuretic effect of low carb can cause you to expel too much salt via the urine and throw your body out of whack. So you could try supplementing those things. I did, didn't seem to do much for me (yet) but it's only been a few weeks. The good news is, more salt didn't increase it contrary to conventional wisdom, so there's that.

Good luck!
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  #7   ^
Old Fri, May-19-17, 16:59
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mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 8,475
 
Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
BF:disappearing!
Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whited
Here's my question. I've read on the internet a lot about a 10 day water only fast lowering blood pressure a significant amount. Of course many sites want you on a vegatarian diet afterword. I'd stick with low carb. Do you think a 10 day fast would be too much as I'm already low carb? I wonder, if I try this, if I should wean off the valsartim before I try this. The doctor probably would freak (he's a drugs first type of doctor) but I'm wondering if anyone has noticed a reduction of moderatly high blood pressure from a 10 day water only fast. Should I cease Co Q10 vit. D fish oil etc. while on the fast?

Thanks for your thoughts

Dennis
Sorry, I would not recommend water fasting or any < 700 calorie a day plans for you as a diabetic. Type I or II?
I am/was pre-diabetic: FBS: 116, now 88, and I had good results with IF 23/1 for one Winter period (one hour low-carb eating window), I can make some recommendations:

1. Weight loss can lower BP even though that didn't work for me.
2. Salt, the lack of electrolytes and/or dehydration can elevate BP. Some people are "salt sensitive" and limiting total sodium can be helpful for those patients.
3. Fermented foods such as kefir will change gut flora over time and have been linked to lowering BP.
4. IF lowered my FBS probably by curing my "insulin resistance" others have reported the same result.

Take home: No one knows enough about high BP, what causes it, or the way to fix it without drugs. I think mine was genetic, from both parents plus a bad life-style when younger, but I beat it anyway.

Best of luck on your journey. It took me years of experimenting, so never give up!

Last edited by mike_d : Fri, May-19-17 at 17:16.
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  #8   ^
Old Sat, May-20-17, 18:55
Whited Whited is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 299
 
Plan: Very Low Carb
Stats: 312/235/185 Male 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 61%
Location: Missouri
Default

Thanks for your posts -- Actually my BP has reduced latley. Of course I'm not complaining but I would like to know the reason.

I'm still on valsartim (without the diuretic) but I have been since August. In fact I was on it for months when my BP was 150/97. It is possible that maybe it took a real long time to kick in but I doubt it.

My regular doctor also prescribed the one with a thizide diuretic (HTZ) but as I have said on another thread it gave me some weird side effects and there is a link with some folks with the onset of diabetes with this drug so I discontinued it about 2 weeks or so. I was on a thizide diuretic before, for about a year -- my BG went from years of 83 FBG to 116 6 months into a free trial of Edarbyclor (with the diuretic) to 179 FBG one year into using that drug. Then I stopped the drug because of the price. Maybe its just a coincedence and I would have developed diabetes anyway but I decided not to use the one with the thizide diuretic this time.

The doctor also gave me a calcium blocker (to take with the valsatrim) but that one supposedly interferes with magnesuium and Vit. D absorbtion -- which is the last side affect we need on low carb, so I didn't take that one at all. I had my blood work done in late April -- everthing good (including BG) except my calcium was a little low. I eat a lot of dairy but I imagine mine is trouble with absorbtion.

Then my BP went down in early April.

I started breathing excercises with the resporate device (slows breathing). Also I increased Co Q 10 and added garlic tablets also. Maybe more sunlight led to increased Vit. D.

Maybe mine is caused mental stress as it subsided in the srpring and I am a teacher (although I didn't feel particularly stressed). Maybe its a combination of things.

I latley started adding beet juice (the powdered kind -- has few carbs) and am taking ALA and biberine.

Whatever the reason I'm glad its gone down and I might try to wean off the valsartim slowly (although I feel no negative effects) down the road if it stays down. If it goes back up in August it might just be the stress.

My goal for this summer is to lose some more weight and slowly add some strength training (I'm already riding my bike daily) and see how that goes.

Thanks again everyone.

Last edited by Whited : Sat, May-20-17 at 19:06.
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