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  #1   ^
Old Sat, Oct-18-14, 09:30
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Posts: 8,441
 
Plan: Atkins/LCHF
Stats: 195/153/135 Female 63in
BF:
Progress: 70%
Location: Kansas City, MO
Default Watching the marathoners

This morning I watched about two hours of runners passing near my house. It's the Kansas City Marathon and Half-Marathon. It pretty well paralyzes traffic in this part of town, and I can tell you I directed some extremely provoked commuters who didn't get the memo

Raises the question (in books like Why We Get Fat) Are we skinny because we run, or do we run because we're skinny?

I'd have to say the latter. Thirty years ago (yikes!) I ran the previous version of this marathon in 4:17. Not bad for a first-timer. And last timer, as it turned out. I trained very hard for almost a year. Crossed the finish line at my lowest adult weight of 122. The fun part was, I remember that I ate everything in sight.

Yes, it's possible to burn a ton of energy training that hard. But it has little to do with the natural state of the body, or with a sustainable program.

I've since learned that I do best on a low-carb diet combined with resistance training and mild cardio (brisk walking) on a regular basis. No more running.

But I'll be out there cheering for people like me with the guts to give it a go.
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  #2   ^
Old Mon, Oct-27-14, 10:34
costello22's Avatar
costello22 costello22 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,537
 
Plan: LCHF/No dairy
Stats: 250.4/190/160 Female 5'5.5"
BF:idk/39%/30%
Progress: 67%
Default

I have a coworker who runs marathons. Took it up in her early forties. She weighed 170 pounds at the time (5'6"), having dieted down from about 230 pounds. She gained weight after she started running. She got back up to about 200 pounds before she reined in her diet again. She's back down to about 180 now, I think.

To me she's Exhibit A in response to the argument that exercise causes weight loss. I suppose an advocate of CICO would say she just eats too much. I'd argue that if she starved herself, she wouldn't be able to run 26.2 miles in one go.
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  #3   ^
Old Mon, Oct-27-14, 10:45
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Posts: 8,441
 
Plan: Atkins/LCHF
Stats: 195/153/135 Female 63in
BF:
Progress: 70%
Location: Kansas City, MO
Default

Hi, Costello. IMHO, your coworker may be doing herself way more harm than good. She has to eat to feed that exertion, but her body isn't using the energy efficiently. Further, at that weight, she's giving her joints a mighty pounding she may pay for in years to come.

You have to admire her desire anyway.
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  #4   ^
Old Mon, Oct-27-14, 10:55
costello22's Avatar
costello22 costello22 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,537
 
Plan: LCHF/No dairy
Stats: 250.4/190/160 Female 5'5.5"
BF:idk/39%/30%
Progress: 67%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkloots
Hi, Costello. IMHO, your coworker may be doing herself way more harm than good. She has to eat to feed that exertion, but her body isn't using the energy efficiently. Further, at that weight, she's giving her joints a mighty pounding she may pay for in years to come.

You have to admire her desire anyway.


She does love it. She may have been one of the folks running past your house, come to think of it. She lives in Topeka and runs quite a few races in the area.
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  #5   ^
Old Mon, Oct-27-14, 11:14
inflammabl's Avatar
inflammabl inflammabl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,647
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 296/220/205 Male 71 inches
BF:25%?
Progress: 84%
Location: Upstate South Carolina
Default

My wife did her first half marathon on Saturday at age 49. Knowing her the way I do, I do know that her weight has little to do with running nor does her running have much to do with her weight. She does have a very strong will and is very conscious of her health. I think her will preceded her weight and her running. She doesn't weigh less because of running nor does she run more because she's thin. She's thin and runs because her will is so strong.
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  #6   ^
Old Mon, Oct-27-14, 12:03
khrussva's Avatar
khrussva khrussva is online now
Posts: 5,167
 
Plan: My own - < 30 net carbs
Stats: 440/200/210 Male 5' 11"
BF:Energy Unleashed
Progress: 104%
Location: Central Virginia - USA
Default

I think how you metabolize carbs has a lot to do with it. When I was 19, I got up to 240 pounds and decided to do something about it. I actually did a pretty good job sticking to a low carb diet for a period of 8 or 9 months. When I got under 200 pounds, I started jogging for the first time in my life. I couldn't jog a mile on the first day. I kept it up and went a little farther and got a little faster every day. Eventually, I became a real runner. I felt compelled to do it every day. I loved it. Continuing to eat low carb/high protein - I eventually dropped down to 169 pounds, was < 10% body fat, and ran 6 to 8 miles most every day. I did a 1/2 marathon a couple of times just to see I if I could do it. I could. It was not a problem.

Anyway - goal achieved, I did what most people do and went back to eating the Standard American Diet. I thought I could maintain my weight by keeping junk food out of my apartment and by continuing a daily jogging routine. It worked for a few years (while I was still in college) but it was not as easy and I thought it would be. I'd put 10 pounds back on and have to go LC again to get them off. I did that a couple of times. I wish I knew then what I know now. I don't metabolize carbs very well. When I was doing LC, I loved to run. When I was eating carbs, I had to force myself to run. I ran less often and shorter distances. I thought it was just lack of will. Now I know it was a result of elevated insulin from all the pizza, burgers, fries and soda that I was consuming.

Fast forward 30 years and 200+ pounds... I'm feeling the same thing now. Keeping my blood sugar low (and insulin low) I am compelled to get my butt moving and I have. In fact, every time I've done a low carb diet for any length of time, I end up exercising again. When I go back to eating carbs, I stop. When my metabolism is in balance, I have energy to burn and enjoy doing it. I'm not running 1/2 marathons -- but I am working out almost everyday. How I eat makes all the difference.

I met a skinny runner back in the old days and he is still skinny and still running regularly. Even before he started running, he could eat a large pizza and a pitcher of coke at every meal and never gain an ounce. He tried protein powder, lifting weights, eating health food, you name it. He just could not gain weight. If he ate a lot, he was totally hyper. He just had to start running to do something with all that energy. I'm friends with him on Facebook -- and I see he still runs 1/2 marathons and 10Ks every chance he gets. His FB posts are all about running. He metabolizes carbs very well. For him, carbs = energy. For me, carbs = high BG, high insulin, fat storage, and my brain thinks I'm starving. We are polar opposites the way I see it. But I can be more like him if I consistently eat in a way that keeps my insulin down. He couldn't be like me if he tried.

Last edited by khrussva : Mon, Oct-27-14 at 15:06.
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  #7   ^
Old Mon, Oct-27-14, 12:34
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Posts: 8,441
 
Plan: Atkins/LCHF
Stats: 195/153/135 Female 63in
BF:
Progress: 70%
Location: Kansas City, MO
Default

Quote:
He couldn't be like me if he tried.
Interesting point. Those of us hanging around here just have too little sympathy for hopelessly skinny people.

My first husband was the Shrimp all through high school. Grew to 6'2 in the Army, and weight-lifted his way to a he-man upper body. He always had those skinny legs though, rather like a barrel on stilts. We were Jack And Mrs. Sprat, sort of.

Ken, I never thought about low-carb eating as actually promoting the desire to exercise, but I experience both energy and results when I do both. Maybe there's a link for me too.
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  #8   ^
Old Mon, Oct-27-14, 12:47
khrussva's Avatar
khrussva khrussva is online now
Posts: 5,167
 
Plan: My own - < 30 net carbs
Stats: 440/200/210 Male 5' 11"
BF:Energy Unleashed
Progress: 104%
Location: Central Virginia - USA
Default

The problem is that skinny people know even less about why they are skinny than fat people do about why they are fat. They say "do what I'm doing... it works for me." But guess what? It does not work for people like me and never will. I can't eat carbs and enjoy exercise. I can't just exercise to lose or maintain weight. My body does not let me do it. It took me 50 years to figure that out. Anyway - maybe that is why we resent skinny people. They give us really bad advice.

Last edited by khrussva : Mon, Oct-27-14 at 15:01.
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  #9   ^
Old Mon, Oct-27-14, 13:18
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Posts: 8,441
 
Plan: Atkins/LCHF
Stats: 195/153/135 Female 63in
BF:
Progress: 70%
Location: Kansas City, MO
Default

Yeah, skinny people don't get it. They aren't doing anything special to stay skinny, but they don't know it. Many fitness professionals come out of the ranks of the never-fat. Maybe that's why the "eat less, move more" idea has been perpetuated for so long. I'm grateful to Gary Taubes for turning that on its head.

For us, maintenance is a commitment that extends far beyond the time and effort required to achieve something closer to a healthy weight, let alone thin. We need to be compassionate with ourselves.

You're doing great!
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  #10   ^
Old Mon, Oct-27-14, 17:21
inflammabl's Avatar
inflammabl inflammabl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,647
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 296/220/205 Male 71 inches
BF:25%?
Progress: 84%
Location: Upstate South Carolina
Default

And how do we all know this? Truth is, we don't. If we know so much about how LC diets work how come so many of us stall? Just because I've lost 76 pounds doesn't mean I know how to lose the next fourteen.

YMMV doesn't only apply to LC diets it applies to all diets. One of my favorite studies was done by Phinney and Volek of "0.8 ketones is magic" fame. http://www.biomedcentral.com/conten...3-7075-1-13.pdf Figure 3 shows that for men, 4 of 15 favor a low fat diet and for women, 5 of 13 favor a low fat diet. Not only that but when they switched the subjects from one diet to another the results varied depending on the sequence of diets.

So before I declare my wife "just doesn't know what she's talking about" I admit to myself that there isn't a whole lot of Clarity with keto diets.
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  #11   ^
Old Mon, Oct-27-14, 18:10
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Posts: 8,441
 
Plan: Atkins/LCHF
Stats: 195/153/135 Female 63in
BF:
Progress: 70%
Location: Kansas City, MO
Default

Of course you're right, inflammabl. I'm not sure LC is "working" for me right now as a weight-loss diet. Definitely not fast weight loss!

However, I know myself. That self isn't willing to give up the LC pleasures I've learned to enjoy, eg. HWC in my coffee, meat with the fat attached, and butter on my broccoli. Low-fat is low-fun, as far as I'm concerned, although I've successfully lost weight (poundage anyway) on every diet there is.

At the same time, I'm trying not to fuss too much about ketones and calories and protein grams. Just steady as she goes. It keeps me out of cupcakes and tortilla chips.
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  #12   ^
Old Mon, Oct-27-14, 19:09
inflammabl's Avatar
inflammabl inflammabl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,647
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 296/220/205 Male 71 inches
BF:25%?
Progress: 84%
Location: Upstate South Carolina
Default

If you're the Jack Sprat and Wife family then my wife and I are the Jill Sprat and Husband family.
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  #13   ^
Old Tue, Oct-28-14, 09:11
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Posts: 8,441
 
Plan: Atkins/LCHF
Stats: 195/153/135 Female 63in
BF:
Progress: 70%
Location: Kansas City, MO
Default

As I've complained about elsewhere on the forum, I didn't find that Jimmy's Keto Clarity provided much clarity. A lot of clutter, from which I did extract some information but not much I could readily apply.

My present husband was an athlete in high school and college. Track and lacrosse and later, running. At 70, he's still strong, fit, and healthy. And never a hint of a weight problem.

Now that I'm the cook (which I enjoy) we eat mostly simple meals, low-carb friendly. He can nosh on crackers or whatever he wants, while I ignore it. We both like our daily flaxseed muffin.

He "wants to" start running again, but so far that idea hasn't advanced beyond the "I have to start running again" declaration. Most of us have been there, eh? In the exercise department, I set the annoying good example.
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  #14   ^
Old Mon, Jun-29-15, 22:20
jschwab jschwab is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,523
 
Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/191/195 Female 5 feet 5 inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by costello22
I have a coworker who runs marathons. Took it up in her early forties. She weighed 170 pounds at the time (5'6"), having dieted down from about 230 pounds. She gained weight after she started running. She got back up to about 200 pounds before she reined in her diet again. She's back down to about 180 now, I think.

To me she's Exhibit A in response to the argument that exercise causes weight loss. I suppose an advocate of CICO would say she just eats too much. I'd argue that if she starved herself, she wouldn't be able to run 26.2 miles in one go.



I think this is really common and I had exactly the same experience. If you're genetically programmed to be fat, running will enhance this and it has little to do with how you eat. It just causes a lot of inflammation and packs on pounds. I don't think being thin has to be the end all, though, and I don't believe in the "pounding on the joints" thing. I ran worst when I was thinnest and had the most injuries, including a really crazy, devastating one. I had my best time in a distance race (10 miler) at ca. 230 pounds. I ran injury-free at that point. I love running, though, but I do it sparingly now, purely as a lark.
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