An interesting view??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktQzM2IA-qU

Jo xxx

Before I even click on this, I know what he's going to say because he's a vegan and member of "The Physician's Committee for Responsible Medicine" which is actually just a vegan propaganda machine.

Nah, can't even handle the comments, not going to legitimize it with the benefit of a view. Normally, I take the time to view both sides of any argument and be unbiased, but I just can't even with vegans any more.

He's very persuasive and terribly glib on this topic. The statement, "That's your bacon and eggs, Neil," jumps to a conclusion all vegans want desperately to believe. Had nothing to do with the sweetened corn muffins, bread, and the home fries served with the bacon and eggs, I suspect. Stories about gut-feel correlation without any scientifically-based causation studies seem to be this guy's MO. Being a doctor gives him enough credibility to those who aren't to be very dangerous.

pcrm (can't bring myself to use caps for that particular acronym ) is actually just a front for an animal rights propaganda machine, disguised as a vegan "health" promoting machine

No clicky clicky from me, either ...

a positively hideous group and yes, Neal Barnard is king of the pile. I often wonder, apart from using their so called ethics to be violent thugs, what they really hope to achieve. Lets face it, if the world turned vegan, what would happen to farm animals, cos no one would want them?

Jo xxx

He makes ridiculous arguments. The teeth, for instance, claiming our teeth are no good for meat. You can chew meat. You can chew raw meat. You can even chew meat cooked poorly, so that it's tougher than it would have been raw. We do not need fangs, our biggest weapons aren't our fangs or our claws, it's our brain. He tries to argue that the best hunter on the planet--nothing is safe from us--is poorly adapted to hunting. It only makes sense if you want it to make sense.

Edited to add--he also argues that kittens have a natural hunting instinct that human beings lack.

Human beings aren't really set up to be productive members of the community for the first years of their lives. A wild cat would need to learn how to hunt much sooner. We don't need that particular instinct, there's plenty of time to learn it.

We have got fangs, our incisors!! Its just we have well developed front paws to assist, so they dont need to be as big, unlike most other carnivores

Jo xxx

I admit it, I have very little patience for rabid arguments for or against eating a Whole Food Plant Based Diet, which is what Dr. Bernard supports, researches, and writes about. It is not the same as a Vegan diet, btw, which can contain highly processed foods and is not necessarily low fat. Think of Vegans as being like people who are low carb and delight in Atkins bars as a major part of their diet.

The big difference is the motivation for doing Vegan vs. WFPB. WFPB proponents usually come in the door with concerns about their health and often with a desire to lose weight. They may also have concerns about the welfare of the planet and the treatment of animals and it is not unusual for people to develop those concerns along the way as they eat a WFPB diet.

There are crazy professionals in the WFPB bunch, just as there are in the low carb bunch, but Dr. Bernard's research appears in peer reviewed journals and is NIH funded. He is not the enemy, even if you disagree with what he says.

Amen. As far as Dr. Bernard being the enemy... you're right, he shouldn't be. But his view of low carb mixes things up. John McDougall shouldn't be the enemy... but I've seen him suggest that low carb works in the same sense that chemotherapy works, it just makes people too sick to eat. Rabid arguments against low carbohydrate aren't so good, either. Even if a plant based diet would cure 100 percent of diabetics--the probability of 100 percent of diabetics going on a plant based diet, that's low enough in fat to achieve the sort of insulin-sensitizing effect that Dr. Barnard talks about in the video is pretty much nil. The same is true of low carb, not everybody is going to do it. Maybe in an ideal world, low carb doctors would suggest low fat as a possible option to patients who don't respond well, for whatever reason, compliance or otherwise, and low fat vegan doctors would suggest low carb for their hard cases. That can't happen as long as Dr. Atkins is looked at as a sort of Devil-figure by so many leaders of the plant-based diet movement.



Until he rescinds statements like this, Dr. Barnard remains the enemy. Dr. Bernstein is busy saving lives. Dr. Fung is busy saving lives. Warn somebody that these diets are deadly--and then fail to convert them to an alternate approach, even assume absolutely that it would have worked--has the potential to prevent lives from being saved. And of course this argument can be reversed. First do no harm.

I guess he's never seen all those kitten and bunny videos on YouTube.

The evidence he presents as a natural/biological backing is typical vegan tripe, not backed by any true evidence.

I would never argue with anyone who made good progress on their health goals eating low carb. I lost a great deal of weight following a low carb diet and most of my health markers were great. I did though, over time, develop coronary artery disease--was the diet to blame, I have no idea. I have big time hereditary factors going on as well.

I decided to switch to WFPB, initially following the advice of Dr. Caldwell Estelstyn's program. (http://www.dresselstyn.com/). I have had amazing results in terms of improvement to my arterial health. My family doctor could not believe the difference in angiography over time. My A1C is lower than it has been for 30 years and quite a bit lower than it was when I followed a low carb diet, despite eating almost 200 carbs a day.

Is it the right way for me--absolutely. For you, well that's between you and the health professionals in your life, but if low carb works for you--then keep it up!

Did I understand you to say that On low-carb you were eating 200g carbs per day?

No, I think she's saying she eats 200 grams a day now.

I'm glad you're doing well, taming. And hope we're both right that we're doing well.

When I was low carb, I ate between 30-40 grams of carb a day. Yes, Teaser--I hope we are both right, too.

What is the threshold for "lowcarb" 100 grams per day?