[QUOTE]Originally posted by gary
Thank you for all your good points! Just to explain a little further -I had in mind more extreme eating of fatty cholesterol laden food.

I guess it depends on what you consider "extreme". 65-70% of my daily calories come from fat...butter, mayonnaise, olive oil and the fats from the foods that I eat.

Some people I have mentioned Atkins diet and I am sure you agree that there are many misperceptions about it - they think you can eat gobs of steak and eggs - all you want to eat.

You're right...there ARE a lot of misconceptions regarding how low carb works and what you are supposed to eat, but...you can eat all you want to eat. The thing is that low carbing has an appetite supressing effect, so people don't eat nearly as much as they think they will want to and if they are eating beyond the point of being satisfied to the point of being stuffed consistantly, they are not following the plan correctly.

The first time it was described to me I was told you can eat as much red meat ,cheese, eggs, and bacon as you want and no vegtables.

Nope...there is a limit on cheese during induction; no more than 4 ounces a day and vegetables are an integral part of Dr. Atkins' plan even on induction, but especially as you progress through the rest of the stages. Eggs, bacon (nitrate free), and red meat are not limited. Sounds like whoever told you that had never read the book or missed some of the important details.

I agree with you that we need to eat fat - just some people appear to go overboard.

Again, I suppose it depends on what you consider going overboard. On page 228 of DANDR, it says "Liberal amounts of fats and oils are permitted. This includes butter, olive oil, mayonnaise and any oil that is liquid at room temperature. Consume no hydrogenated oil or other transfats-including margarine." Dr. Atkins does mention the 2,000 calories (pg 17 and 18 of DANDR), but it's in contrast to that level of intake on low carb versus that level of intake on low fat and the effects that it will have on the same body, not a maximum level that all should follow. There are many people on this board who regularly consume more than that and still lose weight. What is generally recommended is to eat 10-12x your body weight in calories minimum to support your basal metabolism and keep your body from going into starvation mode, but everyone finds that they have to find their own level above and beyond that at which they can still lose weight. Obviously, a 150 lb person is going to have difficulty losing weight eating 3,000 calories a day on any diet plan, but someone much heavier might find that it's just the right level. I generally stick between 1,900 and 2,000 calories a day, some days more. I think we are pretty much on the same page. Low carb is not a license to gorge yourself, but calorie restriction (within reason) is not necessary, either. Many people find that they have a tough time getting enough calories when they low carb simply because they are not hungry. I think there are very few that have a problem with eating too much on low carb, but this plan is no different than any other in that it can be abused by people who don't read the book or don't follow what it says.

Once again I appreciate everybodys comments! I have not counted calories myself or have been exact in following every guideline but have noticed a general trend. When I am not traveling for my job and at home I eat smaller portions and have been losing weight. When I travel, the restaurant portions are much larger for example there are two chicken breasts instead of one -- and I maintain my weight - maybe gain a pound or two, but don't lose any more. So for myself at least I do not feel that I can eat a higher calorie count and lose weight. Also just from a very simple formula - if you consume more calories than you burn off you gain weight. If you consume less calories than you burn off you lose weight. My Dermatologist is a MD, PHD and world renowned Dermatologist. He does a modified Atkins where he allows himself all the vegetables and fruit he wants to eat. He lost 10 lbs/month for 5 months. My body just doesn't work like that. As soon as I cheat with too much fruit I stall.

To get back on this thread - what would be wrong about eating little red meat or bacon and eggs? Why not get all heathy fat from fish, olive oil and other good fats? Why not limit bad cholesterol foods? I am an avid science reader and have seen other studies showing long term ill effects from eating red meat that involve carcinogins produced. Plus maybe this statement is not backed by Atkins data and unscientific, but I just can't accept or recommend someone to eat all they want of bacon, eggs and red meat. I just heard three more unsubstantiated stories about people having heart attacks when they went on the Atkins diet now totalling 5 stories. I say unsubstantiated because we do not know all the details about how they were doing Atkins and what their previous heart history is. One person said their friend did extreme induction with zero carbs for two years. Another guy lost 60 lbs and then had a heart attack. Not enough information to say exactly what happened. I will soon have my blood work done and will update everyone on before and after. Now have lost 31 lbs - 191 to 160.

Gary....

There's nothing inherently wrong with eating mostly fish and chicken and getting your fats from healthy sources (like olive oil and butter), but neither is there anything inherently wrong with eating beef, pork and eggs. Eating dietary cholesterol does not give you high serum cholesterol and eating low dietary cholesterol will not necessarily lower your serum cholesterol for reasons that I explained earlier. I limit my consumption of bacon and sausage mostly because of the sodium and nitrates that they contain, not because of the fat content. It's been shown that the consumption of eggs does not raise serum cholesterol. It's also been shown that a high serum cholesterol is not necessarily an indicator of cardiac risk; triglycerides and LDL are much better indicators and you can have a high serum cholesterol while having a low LDL and low triglycerides and so be at less cardiac risk than someone with a low serum cholesterol who has a high LDL and high triglycerides. Everyone's level of calorie consumption that they can have and still lose weight is different and depends on a range of factors including previous dieting history and individual metabolism and activity levels, but our bodies are a bit more complicated than calories in/calories burned. Yes, most people will lose weight if they restrict their calories below what their daily caloric usage is however, with low carb the amount of calories that you can generally consume is higher than it is with the low fat diet because your body uses more energy to burn fat for energy than it does to use glucose for energy and everyone has a minimum number of calories that they can consume before their bodies go into starvation/conservation mode or go after their muscles for the energy that they need for the basic metabolic functions. In other words, if your calorie consumption is too high on any diet (low carb included) you won't lose weight. If it's too low, you may lose weight but you may also be resetting your metabolism to a lower set point and losing muscle in the process. Unfortunately, everyone has to find their own individual levels through trial and error.
I've also heard the horror stories about those who followed a low carb diet and said it made them sick (it was a diet to them, not a lifestyle change in most cases) and every time I've had the opportunity to get more details, those who had a negative experience were doing something incorrectly (no supplements, not enough water...you name it) or had a pre-existing health condition that low carbing did not directly cause, but served to bring to the forefront. Heart disease and gall bladder problems are not something that develop in a matter of weeks or months; they take years of eating incorrectly, so when I hear stories of someone who followed Atkins for 2 weeks or a couple of months and had a heart attack, I'm fairly sure it wasn't low carbing that was responsible. HTH

All agreement here! My statements about peoples stories were not meant for alarm. You said it - that there are other factors involved. But they are the kind of stories that one hears. It is amazing - people's mis-interpretations about the Atkins diet.