Okay, I know that it is not likely anyone can give medical advice, but opinions and stories about your own experience are welcome.

So here's my story:
I've been type II for over 15 years. At first, I controlled it with diet and exercsise. Then pills that worked wonders for 3 months. Then higher dosages. Then new pills. Then higher dosages of those pills. Then combinations of pills. All of it worked when changing for about 3 months. Then gradually, my BG would rise again.

Finally I started on insulin. Then more insulin. At present, I inject 15 units of R and 35 of N every morning, 6 units of R at dinner, and 14 units of N at bedtime. Yep. 3 shots a day. I also take 45 mg of Actos, plus blood pressure meds and a statin for cholesterol.

And I test 4 or more times a day. Until three weeks ago, my averages were around 265 all day long. Sometimes I would be way over 300. Never below 200. Then I started the LC diet. Even though I read Protein Power, I decided to follow the more restrictive Berstein recommendations. I basically eat meat and fat, with an occassional tomato or salad.

So after a few days of the LC diet, my BD dropped to around 180. After a week, it dropped to 165. After two weeks, I dropped to the 145 range. And after three weeks, it's hovering around 120. I've had a couple of reading over 80 and below 120, but mostly I hover between 110-130.

I haven't lost any weight (ok, maybe 5 pounds of water weight). I still take all the insulin and all the pills. I'm sure 3 weeks isn't long enough pitch the insulin and pills, but I think the insulin and pills might be what is preventing me from losing weight. My overall calories are reduced, and I've been careful to avoid "hidden" carbs. My weight does fluctuate a lot depending on water retention.

So when can I start cutting back on insulin? I've been toying with the idea of cutting back, see what happens, then keep cutting back more, and just do this one step at a time. When I'm eating less than 5 carbs per meal (usually), I can't imagine that I need as much as I'm injecting. I'm surprised I haven't had a low BG reading.

I'm going to keep at it, if for no other reason than it is the ONLY thing that works to lower my BG. I was diagnosed with mild retinopathy at my last eye exam. I've had 14 years of no retinopathy, then this development just knocked me flat and drove me back to the LC WOL. I tried it once before, but got talked out it by "professionals" who discouraged me. I've done the exchanges and tried to make that work for years. All I've done is gain 50 lbs. that way.

I'll stick with the LC WOL, even if lower BG readings is all I get from it, but I really would like to have the weight loss that everyone beams about, and I can't figure out what is preventing this for me. Could it be the insulin and pills?

Hi there,

Welcome!

Cutting back on your insulin, like any kind of medication, needs to be discussed with your doctor. You need to ask him/her what range of blood sugars will need what dose (or not) of insulin. Please don't try to cut back on your own.

How much are you eating? I'm sure if you give us some of your menus, someone here will be able to give you some suggestions.

Rosebud

It sounds to me like the Actos is the probable cause of weight gain, but I personally think your numbers are just now 'in range' and I would want to see lower numbers before I cut back anything. Of course, talk to your doc, but I would want to cut back on Actos and then insulin, if I needed to cut back at all. I am a little different than some members of this group because numbers in the 60's and 70's are fine for me (no unpleasant effects) and my endocrinologist has urged me to accept them as normal readings for me. At first when I got anything below 100 I felt really strange, but it went away over time. Some people feel bad in the 70's and want a big margin above 70 and aim for something like 100 or higher.

Cowgirl

Cowgirl

Hello PFreud,

You said your average readings were 265 - and now they drop to 80-130. It's scary that you have that drastic of a drop instead of gradually dropping that low.

As a diabetic myself (no medication's), I personally start to feel uncomfortable under 80 or anything above 120. I'm comfortable at 85/95 and that is what I stride for but then again I never had a steady BG level of 265 as you did.

High spikes are danger signs just as low spikes are -that drop may not be a healthy thing but rather a sign for adjustments.

I know seeing a reading of 80 was exciting but that number may be OK for some other diabetic and NOT OK for you.

Does your doctor know you started LCing? Talk to him and get his views.

It's a learning experience for us all so keep us informed.

Good Luck!

My doctor knows I'm doing LC, but he wants me to see the "diet people" on my health plan. I don't want to. I did the exchange diet for years and I think it's backwards.

Yes, the drop in BG was pretty sharp, but I actually feel better. I'm most comfortable around 125. Under that takes makes me shaky and I have trouble concentrating. Plus, my HBA1c is always lower than my meter readings (and I've changed and checked meters twice just in case it was the meter), so I don't think 125 is horrid for me. I also don't think it's a spike. I saw an immediate lowering, but it stayed stable.

My doctor will, undoubtedly make adjustments once I fax in my readings, but since I'm not going low, I don't think he will cut anything.

So I'm a bad boy. Last night I skipped my shot, and this morning I took half the usual dosage. My readings were in the 140 range, which is really not a big rise. I'm pleased. I think I'll try it again for a couple of days and see what my body does.

I was reading somewhere that your body still uses insulin to process the ketones made by fat burning. When I use the ketone strips, I never get more than a trace, but apparently I am in ketosis at least some of the time. That's why I was thinking that injecting insulin is why I can't seem to lose weight. But as I said, the improved BG is enough to keep me on it for now.

My diabetes is really brittle. I was diagnosed at 25, but there is a strong likelihood that I was diabetic for at least 8 years before I was diagnosed. I once had a test with sugar in my urine when I was 17, but I blew it off. I figured it just had something to do with the stress I was under and how much soda pop I had consumed the day before the test. So at this point, my body just doesn't respond well to any of the traditional treatments, including the insulin. Even though I was injecting quite a lot, I still had high readings, and high triglycerides --over 1200 the first time they tested. I'm down to 211 on the tryglycerides now. However, I do respond to LC. I did the first time for about two weeks, but then I let myself be talked out of it. I'm on week three now, and I'm not going to be talked out of it again.

There is one more thing that works for me, and that's intense exercise. But I can't keep it up. It takes 3 hours of exercise a day to control the BGs, and I stay exhausted when I've tried it. I have to do 30 min. of cardio at least 3 times a day, with some weight training thrown in. And I was still on a restricted calorie diet that left me starving and feeling washed out all the time. If I stopped exercising longer than one day, the BGs would go right back up again.

This is the plan my doctor would probably put me on. I could try to find a new doctor, I suppose, but I'm just thrilled to have one right now. I had 6 years of being uninsured and having to pay my own way for doctor's visits, tests, medicine, and supplies. I have insurance since last fall, and I'm getting tested and having appointments every 3 mos. now.

Thanks for all of your support. I'm glad I found this place. I think I'm making posts that are too long, but it is carthartic to get all this out. Thanks for reading.

Hi:

Protein Power is a great plan. Are you eating around 30 grams of carbs in the form of low starch veggies and some cheese and cream? Dr. Bernstein who wrote Diabetes Solution also recommends eating a constant 30 grams of carb daily with 6 at breakfast and 12 at lunch and dinner.

Dr. Bernstein had a theory early in his career that lots of exercise and weight training would manage his type 1 diabetes. But it wasn't quite enough. That's when he found that eating a low carb diet combined with exercise is most effective. I don't think you need to exercise more than an hour a day and you can alternate weight training with cardio. You should read what he has to say about exercise.

You can read parts of Dr. Bernstein's book on this link below and there is a support forum there too.
http://www.diabetes-normalsugars.com/

Amazing how fast triglycerides come down, huh? And I guess they do call insulin the fat hormone. If you are not losing weight, maybe you could post what you are eating.

From what Dr. Bernstein writes in his book, this is a somewhat normal response to having had very high blood sugars for a prolonged period of time; lower readings that are not truly hypoglycemic can feel that way until the body adjusts.
As your body adjusts to the new, lower readings you may find that going below 125 doesn't feel so hypo anymore.

I still urge high caution with adjusting your medications on your own, although it sounds as though you have been using insulin long enough to realize the risks involved.

Being diagnosed so young, are you an early onset type 2 or a late onset type 1 I wonder? The rapid progression you describe has me wondering.

Apparently, I still make some insulin, but not much. The other problem is the insulin resistance. So the doctors are on the side of early onset type II. And diabetes runs in my family, but my family is so dysfunctional that I didn't know this until after I was diagnosed and started hunting them down. My mom was diagnosed diabetic after me.

I could post my food, but I'm betting you guys want accurate measurements. I have a disability related to having Y chromosome that interferes with accurate cooking measurements. I'll try to watch more closely and post something. Basically, I think I'm having about 40g of protein and 7-10 g of carbs each meal. I may not be eating enough fat.

Today I had 2 eggs, 3 sausage, and 2 bacon for breakfast. I had 28 roasted almonds for snack. Lunch included two tilapia fillets with some olive oil and 2tbs tartar sauce. I had 28 almonds for afternoon snack. For dinner, I had two bar-b-cue ribs, about 1/3 lb of shrimp, and a parmesan/artichoke/spinach sauce on the shrimp.

Ha ha. And I have no aptitude for gas engines! Your menu sounds pretty good though, except for missing some veggies. Hopefully, you didn't have sugary barbeque sauce on the ribs. I guess some people don't like veggies.

I wish I had some answers for weight loss but I'm losing verrrry slowly. But I sure feel good now that my blood sugar is under control and more stable. So I guess, hang in there and allow a few weeks to get your blood sugar lower and stable. Dr. B. also recommends some supplements that can help improve insulin resistance. I also stopped coffee since that can worsen insulin resistance if you already have diabetes.

As Lisa said if you are used to high numbers, even 125 can feel low. I went through that too. It just takes some time to adjust.

PFreud, it looks like you're not getting very many carbs with your meals at all unless you forgot to list the vegetables you're eating.
Almonds can be a great choice for snacking although I personally have a bit of a problem with portion control when it comes to nuts, so I don't have them often.
Watch out for the hidden sugars in condiments like BBQ sauce and Ketchup; they are often loaded with corn syrup and can contain upwards of 15 grams of carb in a tablespoon or two (always check labels). There are some low carb/sugar-free versions of both on the market, but you'll have to check your local store to see if they're available there.
Breakfast looks pretty good; keeping carbs lower at breakfast is recommended by Dr. Bernstein since many of us are more insulin resistant in the morning than any other time of the day.
Fat intake could be a bit higher, but overall it doesn't look too bad.

Overall, it looks like your menus are good. I'd encourage you to add more vegetables at lunch and dinner; the extra nutritional value can only help.
Also, don't expect insulin resistance to disappear overnight. For many of us, it took months to see evidence of a healing metabolism. Patience is key.

I love veggies, but I started off with just meat and fat to kick my body into gear, and I just sort of stuck with it since it was working so well. I love to fry tomatoes with some Mrs. Dash and eat them with my breakfast. I also love broccoli, carrots, and green beans. A couple of times last week, I made a chicken caesar salad. And I've stocked up on the low carb sauces.

I've never liked coffee, but I used to drink a 2 liter bottle (or more) of Dr. Pepper every day. Of course, I switched to diet when I found out I was diabetic. Then two years ago, I switched to Splenda sweetened flavored waters. I'm off the caffeine and I'm going to stay that way.

So now the "whoops." I may be losing weight after all. It turns out my scale was not working. I had other family members give it a try, and it's definitely off. So I bought a new scale. I've lost one pound since buying the scale, but I don't really have an accurate starting number since I was relying on the bad scale. It looks like I've lost between 8 and 12 pounds in three weeks, depending on how off that scale really is. It seems that on the lighter end, the scale works ok, but on the heavier end it didn't work. I had an 80 lb. kid stand on the scale with me, and when he got off, the scale dropped about 20 lbs. So who knows? I have my last weigh in at the doctors, but I had all my clothes on then. It is just a relief to realize that I am losing something (besides my sanity) because I thought for certain I should be with everything else coming into line. So I'm not as worried anymore.

Still just taking half the insulin, and my BG a moment ago was 97. It was a little high this morning when I got up, but I've always had that morning bounce phenomenon.

Thanks everyone for your support and for the tips. I spent some time last night looking at member's before and after photos and it was really inspirational.

There are a lot of veggies that you could add that are very low in carbs per serving but high in nutrition; broccoli and spinach come to mind as do Romaine lettuce, cauliflower, green beans, asparagus and cabbage.
While you're trying to get blood sugars down and stabilized, I'd suggest avoiding higher sugar items like carrots and tomatoes (which are botanically fruits) in any real quantity (a slice of tomato in your salad isn't going to create havoc). You may even find some improvement in your blood sugar readings by adding back a few servings of veggies at lunch and dinner since it will help keep your liver from kicking out glucose in the form of glycogen.
If you like avocados, those are great for this way of eating; low in carbs and very satisfying; guacamole, anyone?

Good for you with the weight loss! I'm sure it's a relief to know that you really are losing something besides your sanity. It looks like your blood sugars are headed in the right direction, too.

GREETINGS--
I am a Type 2 diabetic (14+ years) who has been on insulin since the day I was diagnosed. I used Humulin N and R for a number of years and followed the ADA sanctioned diet, but was unable to get good control -- even with power walking five days per week. I picked up a Charcot foot along the way that limited my ability to exercise so diet and meds were the strategies I was force to use. I discoverd Dr. Bernstein's book and the availability of Humalog and Lantus insulins about the same time and within three months my A1c tests went from 7.8% to 5.5%. I was also able to decrease my dosage by about 30% after normalizing my dosages of both insulins. I was also able to get off the Statins that had significant side effects for me.

NPH insulin is a very inefficient insulin in satisfying the body's basal insulin requirements (basal insulin needs are montly constant and NPH has a peak in action). Regular insulin is OK, but usually doesn't "kick in" untill after my blood sugars had peaked after eating. I also learned about the Law of Small Numbers from Dr. Bernstein and that also allowed me to reduce my insulin dosages -- however, I do inject five times per day, but that inconvenience is "worth the price".
wambo1941

My premeal readings have still been great, but my post meal readings were higher than last week, so I decided to do 2/3 dose instead of 1/2. However, I also went to Dr. Bernstein's site and did some reading. I think I may break my insulin up into more shots with smaller amounts and see what happens to my sugar readings. But I'm gonna want to try that on a weekend, not in the middle of my work week. I can't afford major fluctuations at work.

I do have some humalog insulin. I think it would be better for me than the R. The way the R works right now, it peaks in the afternoon, too late to help with lunch. When I'm at work, I have to have an earlier lunch. But on weekends, the R works fine because I don't eat as soon after breakfast. The humalog would peak sooner and maybe help out with the postprandial sugar levels. I may try it, but I just want to change one thing at a time right now.

My mom takes Lantus. I may talk to my doctor about it, but right now I'm collecting data before I talk to him. When I have more insight on how my body is responding, I'll schedule the appointment. Meanwhile, I still haven't had any readings over 200 for weeks now, so the LC WOL is doing the trick. This is the last week for my second job, so next week I intend to get back to the gym and I think that will help too. My scale says a half pound lost since yesterday. I'm not hung up on having to weigh myself every day, but with the new scale I'm just wanting to make sure it's working. The old scale is going out in the trash tomorrow!

GREETINGS --
I normalized my Humalog dosages and my Lantus dosages and did a write-up on the processes that I followed. Before you start working with Humalog make sure the expiration date for the vial has not come and gone. The normalization of Humalog will involve the carbs and protein that you consume at each meal and any elevated premeal blood sugars. The normalization process should take two days. The normalization of Lantus , independent of the Humalog, should also take a couple of days. > will post both as replies later today.
wambo1941