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  #16   ^
Old Thu, Oct-26-17, 14:09
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
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Posts: 4,324
 
Plan: vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
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My thyroid levels were always borderline low when I ate low-fat low-cal high-carb diets & I even tried a low dose of thyroid meds to raise it but I stopped after a couple of months because they made me feel weird with hot and cold flashes (not menopausal). Once I went LCHF, my thyroid levels rose on their own to mid-normal & have stayed there. In retrospect, since hormones are fat soluble, eating only ~10% fat à la Pritikin & Ornish makes no sense.

Last edited by deirdra : Thu, Oct-26-17 at 14:21.
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  #17   ^
Old Thu, Oct-26-17, 19:39
dcc0455 dcc0455 is offline
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Posts: 167
 
Plan: Low Carb
Stats: 230/165/160 Male 67
BF:
Progress: 93%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thud123
I'm experimenting with it and documenting. )


I am very interested in this experiment. Not because I want to do it, or am looking for an excuse to eat carbs, but because there is such a wide range of opinions on topics like this, getting real world results from someone testing on themselves is a lot more valuable then watching videos or reading blogs from
people trying to sell something.
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  #18   ^
Old Thu, Nov-02-17, 11:37
kdc01's Avatar
kdc01 kdc01 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 77
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 339.8/272.6/200 Male 71 inches
BF:
Progress: 48%
Location: virginia
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Tom Venuto(Burn the Fat Feed the Muscle) is a proponent of carb cycling. He believes it is a useful tool for breaking plateaus and also for keeping the diet more tolerable. He is also not a low carb guy per se, his objection to foods like bread and pasta is not that they are high carb but that they are processed and not "clean" food.
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  #19   ^
Old Thu, Nov-02-17, 12:49
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thud123 thud123 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,422
 
Plan: P:E=>1 (Q3-22)
Stats: 168/100/82 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 79%
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do you have a short definition of what he means by "clean" food? By inference I'd think means processed by human's in some manner but honey, processed by bees, might be ok? Guessing here...
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  #20   ^
Old Fri, Nov-03-17, 06:25
kdc01's Avatar
kdc01 kdc01 is offline
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Posts: 77
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 339.8/272.6/200 Male 71 inches
BF:
Progress: 48%
Location: virginia
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Venuto uses clean and natural interchangeably. Food that comes from a tree, from a plant, from out of the ground or did it walk fly or swim as opposed to food that comes in boxes, cans, packages or wrappers.
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  #21   ^
Old Fri, Nov-03-17, 06:44
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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I'm not crazy about "clean, natural, organic" or even "quality." Not that these aren't good traits, I don't think they're sufficient to arrive at a good diet. A friend yesterday told me a story where she was working with Mohawk children, telling them that if they used maple syrup in place of sugar, they wouldn't get diabetes. Clean, natural, organic, high-quality maple syrup. I told her if they were going to get diabetes with the sugar, replacing it with maple syrup would just give them all-natural diabetes.

I've seen "organic, non-gmo" cotton candy in the health food store. That just shouldn't happen unless there are hidden cameras or something.

Organic spinach might be better than "conventional" spinach. Probably it's more important that I eat my spinach than that it be organic. Organic sweet-potato french fries made with virgin coconut oil? The "organic" and "virgin" aspects might make a difference, but I think it's probably a minor difference compared to macro and micronutrient considerations. Of course that can come under "quality" but there's the question of which qualities matter enough to make a difference. The only way I could afford to eat organic, all natural, grass-fed etc. is to sacrifice other qualities that I think have a much stronger and obvious effect in improving my health.
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  #22   ^
Old Fri, Nov-03-17, 06:50
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cotonpal cotonpal is offline
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Posts: 5,283
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Vermont
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I don't like the term "clean" as it is applied to food. It carries an implication of morality that disturbs me. The issue for me is always the health benefit. I try not to characterize my eating habits in moral terms.

Jean
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  #23   ^
Old Fri, Nov-03-17, 08:41
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,422
 
Plan: P:E=>1 (Q3-22)
Stats: 168/100/82 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 79%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdc01
Venuto uses clean and natural interchangeably. Food that comes from a tree, from a plant, from out of the ground or did it walk fly or swim as opposed to food that comes in boxes, cans, packages or wrappers.

Thanks for your answer. We're probably discussing "concentration" more than anything else. Stuff that walked, talked, flew or swam would generally not be part of the "carb cycling" discussion, at least not during the carbUP phase, could be wrong tho...

Sucrose occurs in nature. I eat some probably every day. Human beings have learned how to refine it and "clean", "purify" and "concentrate" it into little packets we see on the table when we go to a cheap diner

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sucrose

In my "carbUP Experiment" I was definitely using refined sugar added to different foods, like Wheat, Potatoes and even Vegetables (think Pizza and pasta sauce here)

I'm on the "moderating" side of the experiment now, moderating "Net Carbs" to 25 or less after consuming on some days over 800g "Net Carbs" I tried to get to 1000g but just couldn't do it. The second part of the experiment and data collected should be finished by end of month.

For the first part go to the end here: http://downhaul.com/lowcarb/daily.txt

I will post the second part and include observations 11/1/2017

PS: I wonder what others use for protocols? Also, so far the only positive that I can observe is that I can eat a hella lot of sugar and not die on the spot and eating sugar is only comfortable while eating sugar
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  #24   ^
Old Fri, Nov-03-17, 08:46
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,422
 
Plan: P:E=>1 (Q3-22)
Stats: 168/100/82 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 79%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cotonpal
I don't like the term "clean" as it is applied to food. It carries an implication of morality that disturbs me. The issue for me is always the health benefit. I try not to characterize my eating habits in moral terms.

Jean

"Clean" is a bothersome word to me as well Jean; that and "Cheating". Both seem to be mushy thinking, poor characterizations and ethically loaded terms.
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  #25   ^
Old Fri, Nov-03-17, 12:11
FatBGone17 FatBGone17 is offline
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Posts: 34
 
Plan: Atkins / South Beach
Stats: 265/246/185 Male 71 inhes
BF:
Progress: 24%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
I'm not crazy about "clean, natural, organic" or even "quality." Not that these aren't good traits, I don't think they're sufficient to arrive at a good diet. A friend yesterday told me a story where she was working with Mohawk children, telling them that if they used maple syrup in place of sugar, they wouldn't get diabetes. Clean, natural, organic, high-quality maple syrup. I told her if they were going to get diabetes with the sugar, replacing it with maple syrup would just give them all-natural diabetes.

I've seen "organic, non-gmo" cotton candy in the health food store. That just shouldn't happen unless there are hidden cameras or something.

Organic spinach might be better than "conventional" spinach. Probably it's more important that I eat my spinach than that it be organic. Organic sweet-potato french fries made with virgin coconut oil? The "organic" and "virgin" aspects might make a difference, but I think it's probably a minor difference compared to macro and micronutrient considerations. Of course that can come under "quality" but there's the question of which qualities matter enough to make a difference. The only way I could afford to eat organic, all natural, grass-fed etc. is to sacrifice other qualities that I think have a much stronger and obvious effect in improving my health.


My personal favorite is when people tell me they won't eat this or that because it has "chemicals" in it

Last edited by FatBGone17 : Fri, Nov-03-17 at 12:17.
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  #26   ^
Old Fri, Nov-03-17, 12:53
Calianna's Avatar
Calianna Calianna is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,851
 
Plan: Atkins-ish (hypoglycemia)
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 63
BF:
Progress: 50%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
I'm not crazy about "clean, natural, organic" or even "quality." Not that these aren't good traits, I don't think they're sufficient to arrive at a good diet. A friend yesterday told me a story where she was working with Mohawk children, telling them that if they used maple syrup in place of sugar, they wouldn't get diabetes. Clean, natural, organic, high-quality maple syrup. I told her if they were going to get diabetes with the sugar, replacing it with maple syrup would just give them all-natural diabetes.

I've seen "organic, non-gmo" cotton candy in the health food store. That just shouldn't happen unless there are hidden cameras or something.

Organic spinach might be better than "conventional" spinach. Probably it's more important that I eat my spinach than that it be organic. Organic sweet-potato french fries made with virgin coconut oil? The "organic" and "virgin" aspects might make a difference, but I think it's probably a minor difference compared to macro and micronutrient considerations. Of course that can come under "quality" but there's the question of which qualities matter enough to make a difference. The only way I could afford to eat organic, all natural, grass-fed etc. is to sacrifice other qualities that I think have a much stronger and obvious effect in improving my health.


In a round-about way, she's right.

Considering how expensive real maple syrup is to begin with, the cost itself would limit consumption to amounts you could afford. With just a quick google, I'm seeing $6+ for 8 oz maple syrup, compared to $1.49 for 4 lbs sugar - the price difference should seriously limit maple syrup use compared to granulated sugar. Qualifying maple syrup even further by insisting that it be clean, natural, organic, and high quality - well, the price for that is going to be even higher.

Sure, maple syrup still pure sugar, but if your food budget is used to the type of sweet consumption that the price of granulated sugar encourages, you probably can't afford to use more than about 1-2 tsp/day of maple syrup, if that's the only sweetener you're using as a sweetener in all your food. So if you switch all your conventionally sugar sweetened foods to those sweetened ONLY with maple syrup, you wouldn't be likely to consume enough of it to raise your blood sugar enough to cause diabetes.

Other things in the diet could of course raise the blood sugar enough to cause diabetes, such as excessive fruit, or too many starches.
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  #27   ^
Old Fri, Nov-03-17, 14:05
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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Absolutely, given scarcity, I don't think sugar would be that dangerous.
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  #28   ^
Old Fri, Nov-03-17, 14:20
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,036
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Funny, I just came from the local organic whole food store near me where I get heavy cream, and the person in line ahead of me had a huge bag or organic cane sugar. Hope it makes a difference . . .
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  #29   ^
Old Fri, Nov-03-17, 16:41
Calianna's Avatar
Calianna Calianna is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,851
 
Plan: Atkins-ish (hypoglycemia)
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 63
BF:
Progress: 50%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
Absolutely, given scarcity, I don't think sugar would be that dangerous.


Before sugar was so widely available, diabetes was also rare, and even in it's rarity, most likely to occur among the rich, who were the only ones who could afford to have enough sugar in their diet to cause a problem.

It's absolutely no wonder that diabetes incidence has exploded among all income levels, considering that HFCS, which is even cheaper than sugar, is already added to almost every processed item on the grocery shelves. It's really a wonder that nearly 100% of the population doesn't have diabetes.
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  #30   ^
Old Fri, Nov-03-17, 16:44
Calianna's Avatar
Calianna Calianna is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,851
 
Plan: Atkins-ish (hypoglycemia)
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 63
BF:
Progress: 50%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
Funny, I just came from the local organic whole food store near me where I get heavy cream, and the person in line ahead of me had a huge bag or organic cane sugar. Hope it makes a difference . . .


One would hope - but a lot of people who think organic sugar is somehow going to be better for them than regular sugar will cut back on something else (such as entertainment) in order to buy something they think is far superior to the normal version, so they can consume just as much of it as they're used to eating, guilt free.
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