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  #1   ^
Old Sat, Jul-17-04, 22:18
Dr. David Dr. David is offline
New Member
Posts: 5
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 270/245/200 Male 6' 1"
BF:
Progress:
Default "the Zone" with Dr. Atkins...possible to accelarate both inches and pounds? Thoughts

Hello to all of you thousands of "threaders" and congrats on heading for a goal of a million pound loss!

I have made an intentsive study of the effect of Omega-3 and omega-6 on the metabolism of stress-related obesity. I (theoretically) understand the effect of the glucogen/insulin balance in fat storage. I sure don't want to take anything away from the Atkins but I have come across to potential ways to put the two togther.

I have nothing to promote but good health. Let's chat.

Cheers!

Dr. David
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  #2   ^
Old Sun, Jul-18-04, 18:52
mischa's Avatar
mischa mischa is offline
Vorsicht! heiß
Posts: 55,817
 
Plan: SureSlim Wellness Clinic
Stats: 225.6/188.8/160 Female 5'8
BF:34%/24%/24%
Progress: 56%
Location: Victoria, BC
Default

Hi Dr. David and welcome to the forum

Wanna share your thought?

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  #3   ^
Old Mon, Jul-19-04, 11:05
Nadz's Avatar
Nadz Nadz is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 603
 
Plan: considering SPP
Stats: 145//130 Female 5'4''
BF:
Progress: 36%
Location: SC
Default

Hey Dr. D,
Why not start up a journal so that you can have a place to share your ideas?
Eagerly awaiting you perspective on things,
Nadz
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  #4   ^
Old Mon, Jul-19-04, 11:56
Dr. David Dr. David is offline
New Member
Posts: 5
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 270/245/200 Male 6' 1"
BF:
Progress:
Default "The Atkins" combinned with the "The Zone"

Hi Mischa!

Add "state of mind" and you have just about covered it.

My investigations indicate that one needs to balance the essential fatty acids (EFAs) especially the poly unsatuarated fatty acids (PUFAs) One the proper ratio of omega-3 (n-3) and omega-6 (n-6) PUFAs in in balance you enter into what Dr. Sears calls "the zone"...a general feeling of wellness.

At that point you need to target the stress homones that are secreted by the hypothalamous, adrenals, and pituitary (HAP) systems and get those catacholamines and cortosols way way down. These guys cause the "fight or flight" syndrome which floods he body with survival hormones (including large amounts of insulin) that does not get metabolilzed, instead gets stored in fat and that sets off the leptin trigger to shovel in the (any) food, but carb really look good at that point.

Tell me a little more about how your are doing...a little history, etc.

Dr. David
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  #5   ^
Old Mon, Jul-19-04, 16:34
kimmiek's Avatar
kimmiek kimmiek is offline
New Member
Posts: 12
 
Plan: Atkin's
Stats: 194/185/130 Female 5'1"
BF:
Progress: 14%
Location: Some city in Kentucky
Default Just saw some of "The Zone" stuff today...

For the Doctor-- Can you give me the essential lowdown on the main differences between "The Zone" method and Atkins. I was at Borders today when I discovered that there are more LC methods than I was aware. I knew about Atkins and South Beach but had never heard of The Zone. I was trying to skim through some of the material and I noticed a lot about making sure that food choices are "balanced" appropriately for weight loss and feelings of wellness. I am already feeling much better on Atkins, but I am curious about this other Low Carb method/philosophy. Please enlighten me, if you would.
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  #6   ^
Old Mon, Jul-19-04, 21:48
Dr. David Dr. David is offline
New Member
Posts: 5
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 270/245/200 Male 6' 1"
BF:
Progress:
Unhappy "The Zone" and "Atkins" combined for max effect

Kim, it has all to do with our genes.

Long ago, we were all "hunter-gethers" and ate just about anything that crawled, swam, flew or ran. (ususally a la raw) All of these critters supplied us a special poly unsaturated fatty acid (PUFAs), just skip the technical and call it a special fat that the body had (and still has) great need of , ie, prostaglandins, lipoxins, each made of about 20 carbon atoms (to fight infection, inflammation and regulate the major organs of growth, maturity, appitite, fertility, sudden fear ( ) vasodilation (blood pressure) and wound healing.

We grew up on tv and radio that sold us on Wheaties, toast, and Tootsie Rolls! and of course we began to leave these essential fats out of our life.
Sadly, our genes do not have a good messager (mRNA) to tell our DNA how to handle all this sugar and starch so while waiting for few million eons to natually select out genetic structure that effectively works loads of carbs out bodies like good servo-mechanism, stores it in fat around out butts and middle while we get diabetis arthritis, and myriad other unnatural diseases.

Read Dr. Sears first book and he explains it far better than the vinette above. Basically this is a start. Remember ole St. John-the-Presbyterian ( ) lived off locust and honeywhen times got rough!

Doc David

Last edited by Dr. David : Mon, Jul-19-04 at 22:11.
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  #7   ^
Old Tue, Jul-20-04, 05:13
Nadz's Avatar
Nadz Nadz is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 603
 
Plan: considering SPP
Stats: 145//130 Female 5'4''
BF:
Progress: 36%
Location: SC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmiek
For the Doctor-- Can you give me the essential lowdown on the main differences between "The Zone" method and Atkins. I was at Borders today when I discovered that there are more LC methods than I was aware. I knew about Atkins and South Beach but had never heard of The Zone. I was trying to skim through some of the material and I noticed a lot about making sure that food choices are "balanced" appropriately for weight loss and feelings of wellness. I am already feeling much better on Atkins, but I am curious about this other Low Carb method/philosophy. Please enlighten me, if you would.


Kimmiek,
The BASIC overview of the Zone is here http://www.lowcarb.ca/atkins-diet-a.../zone-diet.html
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  #8   ^
Old Tue, Jul-20-04, 05:16
Nadz's Avatar
Nadz Nadz is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 603
 
Plan: considering SPP
Stats: 145//130 Female 5'4''
BF:
Progress: 36%
Location: SC
Default

Quote:
My investigations indicate that one needs to balance the essential fatty acids (EFAs) especially the poly unsatuarated fatty acids (PUFAs) One the proper ratio of omega-3 (n-3) and omega-6 (n-6) PUFAs in in balance


If I'm not mistaken, Drs. Eades speak about this to a great extent in their book Protein Power Life Plan. Protein Power is another low carb plan.
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  #9   ^
Old Tue, Jul-20-04, 10:06
black57 black57 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,822
 
Plan: atkins/intermit. fasting
Stats: 166/136/135 Female 5'3''
BF:
Progress: 97%
Location: Orange, California
Default

I have a question. You are doing Atkins but you have not read the book. I am sorry but how could you have done "extensive research" and not read the Atkins book or Protein Power?
It just seems that your theories are incomplete.
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  #10   ^
Old Tue, Jul-20-04, 22:06
Dr. David Dr. David is offline
New Member
Posts: 5
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 270/245/200 Male 6' 1"
BF:
Progress:
Default

I'm not doing Atkins "by the book." I do understand the metabolism of low carbs-high protein. I took off 35 lbs since Jan using common sense with Atkins and n-3 n-6 supplements am & pm. Takes a few weeks to get your PUFA eicosanoids down to aabout 0.6:1 DHA to EPA. However I was taking an extremely potent green lipped muscle extract (not yet approrove for the clinic but for vets teating $ million dollar race horses, show dogs, etc.with it) and I was fast-walking 2 miles every other day until my knees began to give out. (Now put on your reading glasses )

I had to cut out concentrated ETAs (50xs more potent) and start anti-inflammatory borage EPAs and ALAs to downregulate the "spill over" from dihomo gamma linoleic acid (DGLA) which then tends to become synthesized by enzyme delta-5 desaturase (D5D) into cyclooxydase 2 (COX-2 ...the mother of all inflammation). What I got was an kneecap overabundance of COX-2's favorite child, prostaglandin e-2 (PGE-2), highly inflamatory and vasoconstrictive and loves substance P (like "p" for PAIN). I needed to reinforce delta-6-desaturase to bring back prostaglandin e-1 (PGE-1) (a work-horse antiinflammatory) hopefully causing D-6-D to overwhelm D-5-D and kick in the miracle epoxyeicosatrienoic acids, i.e., lipoxin A4 (LT4), and aspirin triggered epi-lipoxins, (ATL) Ineeded to kick ass on leukotriene B4 and (LTB4) and lipoxygenase recruitment of leukocytes, polys and neutrophils.

I cut back way back on the booze and all the triglycerides and hydroxylates (good ole Lays Sour Cream Chips and Makers' Mark I was inbibing (which is the black plague to D6D and its conversions of COX-1) to the "good prostaglanins, E-1, E-3 and GH1."

That my dear Kim and Misch is a starter on PG balance.

It is a simple matter of the right fatty acids and the body does the rest. A big bonus is once in balance, all the HAP stress hormones like adrenalin, catacholomines and cortosols are brought out of "binge closet" to face the light of day to get your emotions (binge eating; "gotta get my hit of chocolate," "Gawd who drank the last coke?") in balance.

Well, I saw the light for the umteenth time from my backsliding condition and am happily back on the wagon...well a Michelob "Ultra" now and then.

Really! Lost another 5 lb this week.

Sez Doc Dave
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  #11   ^
Old Wed, Jul-21-04, 04:05
Nadz's Avatar
Nadz Nadz is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 603
 
Plan: considering SPP
Stats: 145//130 Female 5'4''
BF:
Progress: 36%
Location: SC
Default

(Assuming I'm a part of this convo, even though it doesn't appear that way),
Interesting views. You must have above average will power to keep those ratios in tact. How about posting your general daily menu for us to have a look. I'd think it's tough to eat to keep up with those ideals. I'm assuming you're trying to keep your omega6s down? Is that correct? So that could aid in limiting inflammation?
Also, you can see the importance of keeping your trans fats almost nonexistent because desaturase enzymes don't appear to work very well in their presence.
You definitely seem to be on a good track for healthy eating and I'm glad you're seeing favorable results. Thanks for sharing.
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  #12   ^
Old Wed, Jul-21-04, 07:56
black57 black57 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,822
 
Plan: atkins/intermit. fasting
Stats: 166/136/135 Female 5'3''
BF:
Progress: 97%
Location: Orange, California
Default

What the hell do you eat for food?
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  #13   ^
Old Wed, Jul-21-04, 08:12
Dr. David Dr. David is offline
New Member
Posts: 5
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 270/245/200 Male 6' 1"
BF:
Progress:
Default :

Nadz and Sach:

Sorry, I didn't intend to leave anyone out.

I started with the usual Atkins steak-steak-steak until I burnt out on Medium Ribeye. Fish and Fowl have pretty much taken the protein job with fresh fruit every day (don't peel the apple, you need the fiber) I cut out bread and refined sugar completely. I substitue honey which doesn't cause the gut to leak white sugar a day-center for polysaccarides to conver enteric bacteria to lipopolysaccrides and sepsis.

The most important is the Omega-3 and 6 suppliment with an apple, peach or banana with couple slices of no-fat cheeze and a cuppa either coffey or black tea. All taken with a large glass of grapefruit juice. Grab that bottle of Ozarka or whatever you spring you dip from and keep yourself saturated.

Once again: it is the balance of good (PUFAs) fat over bad monosaturated, dehydrogenated, and transfatty fat you should avoid. Eat the Atkins usual for dinner with a high protein and low sugar diet and 2 grams of EPA/DHA some moderate exercize, it leaves you feeling pretty good. One or two at most) alcohol beverages helps turn the low density lipoproteins (LDL) to triglycerides.

Take your choice

Doc Dave Sez

Last edited by Dr. David : Wed, Jul-21-04 at 08:57.
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