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  #1   ^
Old Fri, Feb-24-12, 17:35
Krystalcat's Avatar
Krystalcat Krystalcat is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 157
 
Plan: Divinely Mine
Stats: 223.8/222.8/170.0 Female 5'8''
BF:
Progress: 2%
Location: Canada
Post confused results

Hi Experts!

I would so very much appreciate to have some idea if there is something 'off'. Of course my fam doc says all is fine. Should I continue and go to a MD/ND for a reading or am I going to be wasting his and my time - I really don't want to do that. I know that none are doctors here, but I would just like know if I am doing right by pushing to see someone about it. I realize I am missing more tests, like IRON etc.

Grateful for the advice.

What I have is -

TSH 2.08 (0.30-5.60)
FT4 11.4 (7.2-21.0)
FT3 4.5 (2.9-6.0)

B12 429 (>133)
Ferritin 17 (11-145)

FSH 9.9 (unsure of ranges)
F Testosterone 2.3 (0 - 14.2)

Estradio 624 (unsure of range)
Progest 4.8 (unsure)

DHEA-S 1.2 *A *Review results (unsure of range)

Thanks again
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  #2   ^
Old Fri, Feb-24-12, 19:18
hysteria's Avatar
hysteria hysteria is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,106
 
Plan: General LC
Stats: 232/157.4/145 Female 5'6.5
BF:...getting lower
Progress: 86%
Location: Northern Virginia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krystalcat
Hi Experts!

I would so very much appreciate to have some idea if there is something 'off'. Of course my fam doc says all is fine. Should I continue and go to a MD/ND for a reading or am I going to be wasting his and my time - I really don't want to do that. I know that none are doctors here, but I would just like know if I am doing right by pushing to see someone about it. I realize I am missing more tests, like IRON etc.

Grateful for the advice.

What I have is -

TSH 2.08 (0.30-5.60)
FT4 11.4 (7.2-21.0)
FT3 4.5 (2.9-6.0)

B12 429 (>133)
Ferritin 17 (11-145)

FSH 9.9 (unsure of ranges)
F Testosterone 2.3 (0 - 14.2)

Estradio 624 (unsure of range)
Progest 4.8 (unsure)

DHEA-S 1.2 *A *Review results (unsure of range)

Thanks again


Hi Krystal

I'm not an expert - I'm sure you've read other threads and seen there are some perusing the boards. I have a thread on here where I posted my latest results and I am still working with my PDoc to tweak dosage - especially since I am still only dosing with a T4 (levoxyl)

I only wanted to comment on the Ferritin - did your doctor recommend a supplement (like SlowFE)? That (IMVHO) looks amazingly LOW! These were my results the beginning of January:
Ferritin
99
range
13 - 150
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Feb-24-12, 20:13
Krystalcat's Avatar
Krystalcat Krystalcat is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 157
 
Plan: Divinely Mine
Stats: 223.8/222.8/170.0 Female 5'8''
BF:
Progress: 2%
Location: Canada
Default

Thanks Beth. No, my doc has not given me anything for that. It's something that I will keep in mind when I do go.
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  #4   ^
Old Fri, Feb-24-12, 21:21
aeroangie's Avatar
aeroangie aeroangie is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,087
 
Plan: Dr. Eric Westman's/Atkins
Stats: 150/148/132 Female 5'-4"
BF:
Progress: 11%
Location: NC Southern Outer Banks
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You want your FREE T4 to be in the upper half of the range and the FREE T3 to be in the upper 3rd. I wouldn't like to see a TSH of anything over 1.0 but I have an autoimmune disease (Hashimoto's.) Ferritin....yikes! Ferritin by Cardiovascular Reasearch is what I have taken to raise mine along with a lot of extra vit. C to prevent constipation. If you end up ever being positive for Hashi's (easily determined by a TPO blood test) you will likely need hormone replacement. Check your neck to see if you feel anything swollen. That's was how I got diagnosed. Good Luck!!!!!
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  #5   ^
Old Sat, Feb-25-12, 07:26
Krystalcat's Avatar
Krystalcat Krystalcat is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 157
 
Plan: Divinely Mine
Stats: 223.8/222.8/170.0 Female 5'8''
BF:
Progress: 2%
Location: Canada
Default

Thank you Aeroangie - so it sounds like I will NOT be wasting the doc or my time with the appoint. This new doc I'm thinking will run TPO etc.
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  #6   ^
Old Sat, Feb-25-12, 10:42
aeroangie's Avatar
aeroangie aeroangie is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,087
 
Plan: Dr. Eric Westman's/Atkins
Stats: 150/148/132 Female 5'-4"
BF:
Progress: 11%
Location: NC Southern Outer Banks
Default

If you are lucky enough to find a doc interested in getting you into "optimal ranges" you will be a lucky girl. Most will just say "Well, you're in range" then want to take a "wait and see approach" to see if "they need to intervene." Makes me angry but I learned really quick I had to advocate for myself. I went to many docs also before I found one that would up my thyroid meds enough to actually help! Google "Top Thyroid Docs" and look for one in your state. Naturopaths are better but if happen upon an MD that's also an ND you will get the most help!
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  #7   ^
Old Tue, Feb-28-12, 19:09
Neanderpam's Avatar
Neanderpam Neanderpam is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,388
 
Plan: Ketogenic now
Stats: 277/121/125 Female 61 inches
BF:
Progress: 103%
Location: NE Indiana
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I've only been a thyroid patient advocate for about 22 years, but I've not EVER found ANY patient who wants their FT4 above midway of range. (But we find doctors who ONLY give T4 who get used to SEEING it way high!). And not everyone wants their FT3 way high either.

Having said that..a patient who's ferritin (that's storage iron) is THAT flippin' low wouldn't be able to TOLERATE incoming thyroid hormone replacement ANYHOO.

Naturopaths in MY area are telling people to 'take iodine' and they'll see them 'next year'. (put rolly eyes here).

And very low ferritin can, indeed, just like very low progesterone (and FSH is the hormone equivelant of TSH...neither tell you ANYTHING about the actual hormone LEVELS in the body) can...MAKE you feel hypothyroid, and reduce T4 to T3 conversion.

I would want a:

TPO AB (the test for Hashimoto's, the most common type of hypothyroidism in women..two out of every TEN women are positive antibody).

Vitamin D hydroxy

I have a couple Canadian (out of pocket, they aren't NHS docs) docs on my lists that are not on the about.com PATIENT recommended listings.

AND the patient recommended listings are just that...you'll get some who say 'OOH, AAH, the doctor LOOKED AT ME!!!" when I ask them 'And..um..then what?' I get 'Um..nothing, but he listened and smiled at me!!!". Sigh.

So, pick carefully, look for patient remarks like: Gave me both T4 AND T3 after testing both and 'prescribes Armour Thyroid" (or Thyroid or any porcine thyroid) and so forth.

I don't do 'lucky' I do lists of doctors (yes, and some cost a lot, I will warn you now and do not take ANY insurance at all) who KNOW what they are looking at when they see the test results.

In a driving radius of three HOURS one WAY from ME...there are TWO doctors who do what I want. That is all. Actually, I've seen more DO's who like natural thyroid replacement than endo's, ND's or MD's...it all depends on WHERE you are.

But I wouldn't put out 'big bucks' seeing YOUR panel ...before I saw a TPO AB, a Vitamin D AND got that ferritin up...you'd just be wasting money, IMHO.
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  #8   ^
Old Tue, Feb-28-12, 21:00
donnahill8's Avatar
donnahill8 donnahill8 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,947
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 279.2/234/140 Female 5'2''
BF:decreasing
Progress: 32%
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Wish my doc would do a TPO and FT3?

My TSH was 2.23 (0.42-5.47). FT4 was 0.78 (0.61-1.12). Doc sees no need for further investigation. Dead issue even when I requested it. My dad was hypothyroid. I seem to have all his other problems. Many of my symptoms fit the desription, too.

Do the results look okay to you?

Donna
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  #9   ^
Old Wed, Feb-29-12, 07:39
Neanderpam's Avatar
Neanderpam Neanderpam is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,388
 
Plan: Ketogenic now
Stats: 277/121/125 Female 61 inches
BF:
Progress: 103%
Location: NE Indiana
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donnahill8, you don't say 'where you are'? If you're in the USA YOU can get a TPO a FT3, a FT4...etc, there are several labs ONLINE where you ORDER online, pay online, their doc signs the lab slip, you go to a lab 'near you' and then they give YOU the results, and then you can go from there to find a doctor.

One of the labs I, personally have used, is www.healthcheckusa.com

I can't comment on those....it would be like asking me to assess a fever from 10 states away..without a FT3, a Ferritin, prog., estradiol, ferritin, etc. ??? (They wouldn't be ok for ME, personally, NO....TSH too high, FT4 too low but who KNOWS what your FT3 is??? The doctor doesn't know EITHER).
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  #10   ^
Old Wed, Feb-29-12, 08:46
Krystalcat's Avatar
Krystalcat Krystalcat is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 157
 
Plan: Divinely Mine
Stats: 223.8/222.8/170.0 Female 5'8''
BF:
Progress: 2%
Location: Canada
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Donna - I don't know if your results are ok - maybe someone else can.

Neanderpam - thank you very much for your input. I am planning on getting those tests done with this doc I am seeing. I tried calling the other docs but too long a waiting list - I would like to be seen this year not next year, and I found a doc that is MD/ND that I was able to book for March 26. Got the doc from another thyroid person, so I'm thinking he will run those reports.

My storage iron has always been low. And my iron in my blood has always been high. ND told me I can not take iron pills as the iron running thru my blood would get too overloaded and cause problems. I have just read too that low storage iron could be celiac issues - so maybe I'm not being vigilant enough with the gluten/wheat etc. I'm thinking toothpaste etc.

The Vit D I had done last year was 93. (75-200 level) And started taking Vit D drops daily. Will probably run those again too.

Suppose to see the ND today - will bring her the results, see what she says, and if she will run the reports, then I will have them for the MD/ND. I know just looking at a few results doesn't give the true answer - all of it has to be looked at. Hopefully by the time I see him, I will have all of them.
Thanks again for your input!
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  #11   ^
Old Wed, Feb-29-12, 21:11
Neanderpam's Avatar
Neanderpam Neanderpam is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,388
 
Plan: Ketogenic now
Stats: 277/121/125 Female 61 inches
BF:
Progress: 103%
Location: NE Indiana
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OH, I surely hope this ND you saw today is 'Dr. Right' for you. And yes, many of the 'best' thyroid doctors here have a huge long waiting list also. Sigh.

Actually, a lot of those with very low ferritin also have very low (too low for a hypothyroid person) progesterone...so, you might be looking at bringing that up too. It might help. When we go peri meno or meno...our progesterone is the first thing to fall (not estradiol!) and our thyroid freaks (progesterone and thyroid are 'BFF'S') and tries to do the job of progesterone and that really runs it down more.

I'm hoping you got the thyroid help you need and deserve (and feel free to PM me if you didn't...perhaps I have a couple of names of doc's you haven't found yet). Best of luck to you.
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  #12   ^
Old Wed, Feb-29-12, 22:08
aeroangie's Avatar
aeroangie aeroangie is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,087
 
Plan: Dr. Eric Westman's/Atkins
Stats: 150/148/132 Female 5'-4"
BF:
Progress: 11%
Location: NC Southern Outer Banks
Default

Pam....I copied and pasted this about the ranges. I also am kind of a math retard so will be posting my labs and really want to hear your advice. I "think" I am improving at times, but I think the ferritin is what keeps holding me back. I am going to try to get a venofer infusion very soon. I did bring my ferritin up from 20 to 36 but it took over a year and I had to get endometrial ablation done also. I also hear ya about the ND's saying iodine is OK. I wouldn't take a chance with that personally. Here's that info on ranges. Would love to know what you agree/disagree with.

_________________________________________________


Okay this is an excerpt from my week 2 thyroid care and concerns post. It has some basics on thyroid treatment issues. Hashimoto's is controversial.. but if you go through enough MDs you should be able to find one willing to try medication in order to shrink your goiter/nodules.. even if they do not want to treat subclinical hypothyroidism.

BASICS: What is normal TSH, FT3, and FT4 range versus optimal?
Optimal FT range is 50-80% of normal range. This statistic comes from the N A C B where they determined 85 – 90 % of non-dysfunctional thyroid MALES had TSH levels between 0.89-1.1. Women of child bearing years need to have FTs in the 60-80% range of normal. Women after menopause tend to need slightly lower Ft values in the 40-70% range. (This is just my MFM and 2 Obs knowledge on this.. trying to dig up a public access postable journal article on this information) Many MDs do not know how to determine where you are in the normal range. So here is the formula you need to know and come to love.

Given the following formate:
Free T or Total T value (lower limit - upper limit)
0.85 (0.8-1.
Your percentage is calculated as follows:
[Your FT value - lower limit]/[upper limit - lower limit]*100 = %
[0.85 - 0.8]/[1.8-0.8]*100 = 5%
Optimal care is when your TSH is around 1 on a T4 supplement alone with Ft's are in the 50-80% range of normal. T3 supplementation such as cytomel or Armour results in TSH suppression and as a result you must gauge thyroid supplementation on your actual T4 and T3 hormone levels and symptoms alone.

Here is a summary of the A A C E and N A C B statements on the latest normal TSH range.
November 2002: The National Academy of Clinical Biochemistry (NACB), part of the Academy of the American Association for Clinical Chemistry (AACC) was first to issue new laboratory medicine practice guidelines. This is their job so it is to be expected they alter the requirements MDs use for the diagnosis and monitoring of thyroid disease. The particular statements of interest in the 2002 guideline announcement are:
"It is likely that the current upper limit of the population reference range is skewed by the inclusion of persons with occult thyroid dysfunction. . . . In the future, it is likely that the upper limit of the serum TSH euthyroid reference range will be reduced to 2.5 mIU/L because >95% of rigorously screened normal euthyroid volunteers have serum TSH values between 0.4 and 2.5 mIU/L. . . . A serum TSH result between 0.5 and 2.0 mIU/L is generally considered the therapeutic target for a standard L-T4 replacement dose for primary hypothyroidism."

Non-US Mds may turn their nose up at this information.. but it is always worth a shot. This announcment and research was then picked up and reviewed by the A A C E. Based on the N A C B's findings, in January 2003, the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists (A A C E) made the following important announcement that all the MDs should get.. but haven't yet:
"Until November 2002, doctors had relied on a normal TSH level ranging from 0.5 to 5.0 to diagnose and treat patients with a thyroid disorder who tested outside the boundaries of that range. Now A A C E encourages doctors to consider treatment for patients who test outside the boundaries of a narrower margin based on a target TSH level of 0.3 to 3.0. The A A C E believes the new range will result in proper diagnosis for millions of Americans who suffer from a mild thyroid disorder, but have gone untreated until now."


You want to know the neat thing. In 2006 the 0.3-3.0 level change once more according to the N A C B and the A A C E. Normal TSH range for a patient with out Autoimmune thyroiditis is now recommended to be 0.30-2.5. In patients with documented Autoimmune thyroiditis.. the normal TSH range is 0.3-2.0. So if you have a TSH above 2.5 there should be a MD out there SOME where that has the guts to prescribe 50 mcgs of T4 minimum. You just need to find them. I would check the Armour physician finder database and look for one in your area that is in your network. Call and ask them about their practices policy in treatment and care for autoimmune thyroiditis given symptom onset. This will tell you whether or not you want to waste money on an appointment. I founf one SMALL group of MDs in my city (We have FOUR hospitals!! But only one forward thinking group willing to treat my Hashimoto's.) It took people here, my family and A LOT of research and slogging through medical journals to convince and brow beat my MDs into proper treatment. Only 2 were on my side from the get go. The others needed to be convinced. If they weren't willing to listen and be questioned.. they got the boot. I wish you luck finding your thyroid specialist. They are a rare breed. I readily pass the name of my integrative medicine internal medicine specialist on whenever I am asked. So far she has helped me and six others I have referred to her. Pity you all don't live in my town. You could benefit from my leg work.

MG
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If we learn by our mistakes, I am working on one hell of an education
Read more at http://www.healthboards.com/boards/...&ktrack=kcplink

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Last edited by aeroangie : Wed, Feb-29-12 at 22:25.
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  #13   ^
Old Thu, Mar-01-12, 08:24
Neanderpam's Avatar
Neanderpam Neanderpam is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,388
 
Plan: Ketogenic now
Stats: 277/121/125 Female 61 inches
BF:
Progress: 103%
Location: NE Indiana
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Um, the level might have been 'suggested to change' but no doctor that I've met went 'along with it' and most like to ONLY do TSH around me. And elsewhere.

I'm a human, and just go by how I feel, and was lucky enough to get with a thyroid doc who did my FT's all the way through so when I 'hit my sweet spot' I had a 'range' for it.

So, now, when I don't 'feel right' (which hasn't happened for YEARS, I'm maintained well, with weight and with thyroid) I know what to 'look for' with my FT's.

If my FT4 even edges over the midway of the range..I'm sick..and not feeling well...

Yeah, I've seen all that before, and that is the 'scientific/biologic' way to look at it, but many have brought that SAME piece you have there...to a doctor and they'll 'throw it away and just do TSH and if it gets to a 10, they'll medicate you'. Sigh.

The bit about 'normal TSH range' is bunk as far as I'm concerned. And what's on 'paper' doesn't 'computer' to what is actually happening in doctor's offices. Certainly not that! Just a TSH and there ya go! We are the patient..we need to be better informed.

I've seen VERY sick patients with a TSH of 1.5 (me, I was one!) and I've seen people who are very athletic and in 'best of health' and had NO idea their TSH was over 100.

So...TSH isn't what tells 'much' at all. I went for 14 years with 'no care' cuz all they did was a TSH..my Mother died from Hashimoto's Encephalopathy at 48 ....we learned at autopsy with the doctor saying sanctimoniously: 'I DID TSH!'.

But the rest about the FT's...yeah..but not JUST when a patient is 'replaced'!!
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  #14   ^
Old Thu, Mar-01-12, 17:59
aeroangie's Avatar
aeroangie aeroangie is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,087
 
Plan: Dr. Eric Westman's/Atkins
Stats: 150/148/132 Female 5'-4"
BF:
Progress: 11%
Location: NC Southern Outer Banks
Default

Thanks Pam. Just when I think I am learning something, I realize it is so different for everyone. I am glad you found your sweet spot and that you had a doctor willing to look at the FREE's without begging. I had to beg and then the first endo only would look at my TSH and told me my ferritin of 20 was "within range" and that "this has nothing to do with being able to be on a low dose of thyroid meds." She also said my "reverse T3 wasn't a real problem." It turned out, my thyroid was in fact almost dead at that point and she kept saying I only needed 50mcg of synthroid. I complained loudly enough and she gave me some cytomel, but with my ferritin being 20, I couldn't handle but 5 twice a day. It did stop the hair from falling out but no one cared at all that I was losing my figure, no matter WHAT I tried! I am a retired fitness trainer so this was very difficult. It takes a lot of time to find a decent thyroid doctor. Even the one I like now STILL says "Well....you could form an antibody to the armour" and prefers synthroid. I told him it did nothing for me, I could not convert it, etc. etc. But, at LEAST he WILL prescribe by symptoms and not just by lab scores so I feel lucky that "Top Thyroid Docs" helped me find him.
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  #15   ^
Old Fri, Mar-02-12, 07:40
Neanderpam's Avatar
Neanderpam Neanderpam is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,388
 
Plan: Ketogenic now
Stats: 277/121/125 Female 61 inches
BF:
Progress: 103%
Location: NE Indiana
Default

Yeah, ya never know you COULD be the ONE person in 20,000 who develop's antibodies to the Armour. (sorry couldn't resist!).

Once YOUR TPO's go down and the thyroid is 'dead'..the Armour almost CAN'T raise antibody levels, been proven and like...oh my...50 years ago??? Holy moly! What are these doc's reading???

But, I know a LOT of patients who are well replaced on synthetic T4 and T3 and tolerate it well...you don't HAVE to be on natural thyroid to get T4 and T3.
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