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  #1   ^
Old Sun, Oct-13-02, 19:40
Fietser's Avatar
Fietser Fietser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 254
 
Plan: carb/calorie cycling
Stats: 187/134/128 Female 1,59m
BF:36%/25%/21%
Progress: 90%
Location: Netherlands
Default One or 2 sets per muscle group? My BFL-plans

Tomorrow my first BFL workout will start.
I had looked into information on the BFL for a while but it had been too long ago that I read their website. A sticky here prompted me to download the BFL-charts. I forgot to consult this page though: http://www.bodyforlife.com/train_women.shtml and just devised my program using the page on EXRX.NET
http://www.exrx.net/Workouts/Workout2UL.html

When I was finished designing my program, I was puzzled about the phrase :
"Perform two exercises for each major muscle group of the upper body."

How can you do all these exercises in such a short time? Surely the workouts are supposed to last just 45 mins, aren't they? That's not enough for 2 sets of 2 different exercises for each muscle group?

I'm presenting my workout plan for 2 weeks as it will start tomorrow : upper on mon-fri-wed and lower body on wed-mon-fri .
Chest - dumbbell press
2nd exercise could be Dumbbell Flyes or Cable Crossovers

Shoulders - dumbbell row
2e exercise: Seated Dumbbell Press, Front Raises, Lateral Raises or Reverse Flyes???

Back - cable seated row
2nd exercise : Back Extensions

Triceps - triceps extension (dumbbell)
2nd exercise: Alternate Dumbbell Curls, Barbell Curls, Preacher Curls, Concentration Curls, Cable Curls of Hammer Curls????

Biceps - dumbbell curl
2nd exercise ??

I opted for a lot of dumbbell practices since I'm still suffering from shoulder pain, caused by a too heavy cardio rowing workout a la BFL back in May (I have RSI, so it wasn't a very smart thing to do). With dumbbells I can use tiny weight increments, which isn't possible with barbells.

I suppose that I don't need to tell you the # of sets and reps as you are all familiar with how it works. .


Lower Body Muscle Groups

Quads - Lever Seated Leg Press
2nd exercise : Leg Extensions

Hamstrings - Cable Lying Leg Curl
2nd exercise: Straight-Leg Deadlifts

Calves - Lever Standing Calf Raise
2nd exercise: Seated Calf Raises

Abs - Lever Twist (or cable oblique crunches)
2e oefening: Floor Crunches

Please comment??

BTW, my cardio will be 2 spinning sessions on wednesday and saturday. Wednesday since that's the only weekday with morning exercises.. I prefer to do my cardio in the morning rather than in the evening and am also quite addicted to spinning.. used to go 3 times/week last winter.
Now I will stay in my own town on one cardio day and go swimming instead (my gym is in another town at 14 km distance because they were the closest non-smoking gym offering spinning sessions and I don't own a car, so do a 28K cardio-bike ride in addition).

Fietser in the Netherlands (being too hyper to sleep)
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  #2   ^
Old Sun, Oct-13-02, 19:55
Natrushka Natrushka is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,512
 
Plan: IF +LC
Stats: 287/165/165 Female 66"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default Re: One or 2 sets per muscle group? My BFL-plans

Quote:
Originally posted by Fietser
"Perform two exercises for each major muscle group of the upper body."

How can you do all these exercises in such a short time? Surely the workouts are supposed to last just 45 mins, aren't they? That's not enough for 2 sets of 2 different exercises for each muscle group?
Hello Fiester

Following the pyramid style of BFL does have you performing two exercises per body part, however, the second exercise is only performed for one set. A workout looks like this:

12 reps of exercise 1 - rest 60 seconds
10 reps of exercise 1 - rest 60 seconds
8 reps of exercise 1 - rest 60 seconds
6 reps of exercise 1 - rest 60 seconds
12 reps of exercise 1 - no rest go immediately into
12 reps of exercise 2. This is the exercise where you reach positive failure.

Getting the workouts done in 45 - 50 minutes will not happen at first. As you become more comfortable with the program and the exercises you will notice that your speed increases. It is much more important that you maintain proper form than it is you finish in the expected amount of time.

Quote:
Chest - dumbbell press
2nd exercise could be Dumbbell Flyes or Cable Crossovers
This is a good combination. The press is a compound move that involves the pecs, triceps and delts to some extend. Doing the flyes as the second exercise is one of my favourites - it finishes off the muscle and gives you a good stretch. And after a few weeks, when it is time to mix things up you can change from flat presses and flyes to inclines.

Quote:
Shoulders - dumbbell row
2e exercise: Seated Dumbbell Press, Front Raises, Lateral Raises or Reverse Flyes???
If by dumb bell row you mean upright rows you would be better served by using the dumb bell or arnold press for your first exercise - they are compound moves that hit all 3 heads of the shoulder. Lateral raises are excellent isolation lifts that will work the middle delt and give you a nice looking shoulder.

Quote:
Back - cable seated row
2nd exercise : Back Extensions
Nice combination

Quote:
Triceps - triceps extension (dumbbell)
2nd exercise: Alternate Dumbbell Curls, Barbell Curls, Preacher Curls, Concentration Curls, Cable Curls of Hammer Curls????
Tricep extension are great isolating exercises that can be used as your first or second exercise. However, all the exercises you've listed for your second exercise are bicep moves, not tricep exercises. You might try skull crushers, or french curls, narrow grip barbell presses, tricep kickbacks or bench dips to hit the tricep heads.

Quote:
Biceps - dumbbell curl
2nd exercise ??
Any of the exercises you've listed for the second tricep exercise would make a good second bicep exercise. Concentration curls and preacher curls are excellent exercises for creating a nice peak and finishing the muscle off.

Quote:
Quads - Lever Seated Leg Press
2nd exercise : Leg Extensions
Looks good

Quote:
Hamstrings - Cable Lying Leg Curl
2nd exercise: Straight-Leg Deadlifts
Personally, I would change this order. Deadlifts are good solid compound moves that will work the glutes, hammies and lower back. Hamstring curls are more of an isolating move that help to finish off that muscle.

Quote:
Calves - Lever Standing Calf Raise
2nd exercise: Seated Calf Raises


Quote:
Abs - Lever Twist (or cable oblique crunches)
2e oefening: Floor Crunches
Looks good

Best of luck!
Nat
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  #3   ^
Old Mon, Oct-14-02, 00:38
Fietser's Avatar
Fietser Fietser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 254
 
Plan: carb/calorie cycling
Stats: 187/134/128 Female 1,59m
BF:36%/25%/21%
Progress: 90%
Location: Netherlands
Default Thanks...

I thought it was silly to check an answer before leaving, but I did and have adapted the program as you suggested.
Luckily I somehow remeber most exercises from the past... but having a detailed description as they give on that site is a good idea.

Fietser
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  #4   ^
Old Mon, Oct-14-02, 08:01
Fietser's Avatar
Fietser Fietser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 254
 
Plan: carb/calorie cycling
Stats: 187/134/128 Female 1,59m
BF:36%/25%/21%
Progress: 90%
Location: Netherlands
Default

Thanks so much for your thoughtful reply. I must have done SOMETHING wrong as I was finished in about 55 mins despite meticulous reading of the text and asking for assistance in explaining the particular exercise at least 4 times.

So, how much time should one set of e.g. 12 reps take? How much time between individual reps? I must add that I used sissy weights in order to get form right.

Here's what I did
Chest: dumbbell press (1-2-3-4-4 kg) and dumbbell flyes with 4kg.

Shoulders: dumbbell Arnold press (1-2-2-3-3 kg) and lateral raises (4kg).

Back: cable seated row (5-10-15-20-20 kg) and back extension (10 kg plate).
Took a while to find that back extension tool!!!

Triceps: triceps dumbbell extension (1-2-3-4-4 kg) and tricep dumbbell kickback (4 kg).

Biceps: dumbbell curl (1-2-3-4-4 kg) and preacher curl (3 kg).
By now I had wisened up and located the preacher bench first and took the weights to the bench to do the dumbbell curl next to it.. Thought to do a similar movement on the preacher bench but noticed that I should only go half way and couldn't do that with 4 kg, just 3 kg.

Fietser (not feister, means cyclist)
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  #5   ^
Old Mon, Oct-14-02, 09:09
Natrushka Natrushka is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,512
 
Plan: IF +LC
Stats: 287/165/165 Female 66"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Fietser
So, how much time should one set of e.g. 12 reps take? How much time between individual reps? I must add that I used sissy weights in order to get form right.


How long each set takes will vary, and to be honest, I've never timed it. I try to lift with 4,1,2 tempo - meaning, a count of 4 on the way up, hold for a count of one at peak and a count of 2 on the way down. When I want to particularly wreck a muscle group I will reverse that and make the eccentric portion (the negative or downward part) last the 4 seconds. Not something to do every time out because it really tears the muscles.

There shouldn't be anytime between reps. 4,1,2 then 4,1,2 for rep two - all the way to the last rep. At which time you'd rest for 60 seconds. After the final set of 12 reps with your second exercise you rest for 2 minutes before moving on to the next muscle grouping.

Using light weights to encourage proper form is a great idea. For many of the isolating exercises light weights are all you need. Upper body muscles are pretty small compared to lower body one and if you're like most of us when we started out, upper body strength is something to work on. You should definitely feel the effects of 4kg dumb bells.

When you're more comfortable with the exercises you may want to try the weights in the progression suggested by the book. I.E.:

Exercise 1:
12 reps at 60% of your maxium
10 reps at 70% of your maxium
8 reps at 75% of your maxium
6 reps at 80% of your maxium
12 reps at 75% of your maxium

Exercise 2:
12 reps at 75% of your maxium - failure

Your weights increase up until you reach set 4 where you do your 6 reps and then they inch back down for the two sets of 12 reps. If you can do the 12 reps with the same weight you used for the 6 then the weight you're using for your 6 reps is not heavy enough.

You might find this site helpful with demonstrations: fitsite exercise demos - I find some of the ones at exrx.net are show a little too fast to get a grasp of what is entailed.

Cheers,
Nat
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  #6   ^
Old Mon, Oct-14-02, 10:26
Fietser's Avatar
Fietser Fietser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 254
 
Plan: carb/calorie cycling
Stats: 187/134/128 Female 1,59m
BF:36%/25%/21%
Progress: 90%
Location: Netherlands
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Natrushka
How long each set takes will vary, and to be honest, I've never timed it. I try to lift with 4,1,2 tempo -

Exercise 1:
12 reps at 60% of your maxium
10 reps at 70% of your maxium
8 reps at 75% of your maxium
6 reps at 80% of your maxium
12 reps at 75% of your maxium

Exercise 2:
12 reps at 75% of your maxium - failure

Your weights increase up until you reach set 4 where you do your 6 reps and then they inch back down for the two sets of 12 reps. If you can do the 12 reps with the same weight you used for the 6 then the weight you're using for your 6 reps is not heavy enough.

You might find this site helpful with demonstrations: fitsite exercise demos - I find some of the ones at exrx.net are show a little too fast to get a grasp of what is entailed.

Cheers,
Nat


Nat, thanks again.. as it was just my first time after a long absence I wasn't too worried. I stalled at a lowish weight for some exercises as 4 kg was too hard. Especially for the right arm, which is weaker than the left due to the RSI problem.

From what I see at your 4-1-2 pace, I did it too fast.. my, I may get confused when I start counting both the pace and the number of reps. The carb-free diet I am doing has affected me a little bit regarding short-term memory! Which always has been lousy though.

Also thanks for the max indication, I was already wondering whether I should go back to the weight for the 3rd set or not.

And finally, I'll def. take a look into that web site. While I knew most exercises, it has been a long time and despite the fair description on www.exrc.net I missed the pics in the gym.. perhaps I'll do a print-out of all the exercises I'm going to do...

Oh, and really finally I will also try to look up exercises that work on the same muscle groups but can be done without weights or tools, just by stretching. I will be cycle-touring for 2 weeks early November and by now I'm fanatical enough so that I want to keep doing them at a milder pace...

That's it for now

Fietser
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Oct-16-02, 06:50
Fietser's Avatar
Fietser Fietser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 254
 
Plan: carb/calorie cycling
Stats: 187/134/128 Female 1,59m
BF:36%/25%/21%
Progress: 90%
Location: Netherlands
Default Re: Re: One or 2 sets per muscle group? My BFL-plans

Quote:
Originally posted by Natrushka
Hello FieTSer

Personally, I would change this order. Deadlifts are good solid compound moves that will work the glutes, hammies and lower back. Hamstring curls are more of an isolating move that help to finish off that muscle.



Nat, i decided to change the order next time I do the lower body exercises?
Why? My hams are pretty well trained, but my lower back is rather weak. Hence, I prefer an isolation exercise for that really hits the hams. I had pain in my lower back when I did the 5 sets of deadlifts this morning while I felt almost no effect in the hamstrings or even gluteus. Remember I cycle lots and also do 2 spinning classes each week, which exercises the hams. I'd rather do an isolating exercise for the lower back, like with the back extension.

So, it will become 5 sets of leg curls and a 6th set of dead lifts, also because it's very likely that both leg curl machines will be occupied when I arrive there panting..

Things got worse with the calf raise.. I'd prepared the leg press for the seated calf raise both in position and amt. of weight, but when I was finished with the rather strenuous standing calf raise, the leg press was occupied, so I had to plead and beg to get in my final set... took over 3-4 minutes to do that one..

The standing calf raise is tougher too, so it will make a nice killer set.

And last of all, our gym doesn't have a machine for oblique abs, but it does have an incline bench. However, I'm too weak to do 5 sets on them.. so it was a good move to try the abs machine instead.. Felt good to do abdominal crunches with a machine rather than on the floor.. it always gave me more pain in my back than in my abdominals to do a floor crunch, even with the help of those crunch tools.
Did the killer set on the incline bench: 12x2 oblique crunches... OUCH!

Felt great afterwards, and still had to do a 45 min spinning session.. I was so hyper that I even hammered uphill on the way home rather than my normal sluggish pace (my home and the gym are 9 miles apart and there's no public transport and no car to get me there/away).. they happen to have the best spinning lessons in the region!

Fietser (cyclist)
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, Oct-16-02, 07:03
Natrushka Natrushka is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,512
 
Plan: IF +LC
Stats: 287/165/165 Female 66"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default Re: Re: Re: One or 2 sets per muscle group? My BFL-plans

Quote:
Originally posted by Fietser
My hams are pretty well trained, but my lower back is rather weak. Hence, I prefer an isolation exercise for that really hits the hams. I had pain in my lower back when I did the 5 sets of deadlifts this morning while I felt almost no effect in the hamstrings or even gluteus.


I would think that if your lower back was weak you might want to focus on it ? Deadlifts can be tough, granted, and proper form is critical. So is how you start off and finish each set. Trainerdan posted something last winter on how to do this - I'll try to dig it up for you.

Something else to think about - core strength is increased when you strengthen your abs and your back. Having one set of muscles stronger than the other can make you lopsided, so to speak, and cause problems of it's own.

I used to cycle heavily and my cardio is done on a nordictrack - I have always had very strong legs. Doing squats, hamstring curls and deadlifts only gives me DOMS the odd time - or when I really push it. And forget the calves - I can't get them to hurt no matter what I do. All this being said - a year of lifting heavy has produces some results that I'm very pleased with, and I didn't feel sore most of the time.

As for the ab machines and floor exercises, you'll find your strength in that area will increase as well. I've done all my crunches on the floor, I wouldn't know what an ab machine looks like

There's an Ab Bootcamp thread in this forum somewhere - I'll see if I can't find that as well.

Cheers,
Nat
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  #9   ^
Old Wed, Oct-16-02, 07:09
Natrushka Natrushka is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,512
 
Plan: IF +LC
Stats: 287/165/165 Female 66"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

Info on how to perform the Deadlift:

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthre...hlight=deadlift

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthre...hlight=deadlift

Ab Bootcamp - there is a link down the thread to the article at Muscle Media where this comes from (it also has pictures of the exercises)

Nat
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  #10   ^
Old Wed, Oct-16-02, 07:34
Fietser's Avatar
Fietser Fietser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 254
 
Plan: carb/calorie cycling
Stats: 187/134/128 Female 1,59m
BF:36%/25%/21%
Progress: 90%
Location: Netherlands
Default Re: Re: Re: Re: One or 2 sets per muscle group? My BFL-plans

Quote:
Originally posted by Natrushka
I would think that if your lower back was weak you might want to focus on it ? Deadlifts can be tough, granted, and proper form is critical. So is how you start off and finish each set. Trainerdan posted something last winter on how to do this - I'll try to dig it up for you.[/B]


I will try to do the deadlift another time more at ease so that I can do it with proper form, rather than hurry through.


Quote:
Something else to think about - core strength is increased when you strengthen your abs and your back. Having one set of muscles stronger than the other can make you lopsided, so to speak, and cause problems of it's own.

True.. I need to work on the abs and waist. However, since these are weaker, I think it's a better idea to do isolating exercises for those and build up their strength separately, until i can do the deadlift and get sore thighs, a sore butt and a sore back at the same time, rather than just one of the 3.

Quote:
I used to cycle heavily and my cardio is done on a nordictrack - I have always had very strong legs. Doing squats, hamstring curls and deadlifts only gives me DOMS the odd time - or when I really push it. And forget the calves - I can't get them to hurt no matter what I do. All this being said - a year of lifting heavy has produces some results that I'm very pleased with, and I didn't feel sore most of the time.


LOL.. I'm still quite sore. My weakness with cycling is simply my weakness. I'm too lazy and tend to twiddle in lowest gear. It may have to do with lack of proper food. Only when I started the CKD-diet just 2 weeks ago (OK, I lowered my carb intake for rice, potatoes & bread considerably for a few months, but would binge on high-carb candy & sweets), I realized how bad I was eating for the longest time.. despite the lack of carbs,I feel stronger than I did before!

Quote:
As for the ab machines and floor exercises, you'll find your strength in that area will increase as well. I've done all my crunches on the floor, I wouldn't know what an ab machine looks like


http://www.megafitness.com/seated-a...-s-sse0021.html
gives an idea.. the machine I use is a bit different, but the principle is the same.
http://www.ballyfitness.com/rapid_r...ips/video.asp?1
gives a description what you do.

The main difference is that with a floor crunch you often work your back, rather than your abs, unless you're using an abdominal tool (you know what I mean, that light thingy which is used in many gyms for abdominal crunches). You can add weight to the hand grips, but this is something I tend to forget.
With the machine you can add more weight more easily.. I liked it.


Quote:
There's an Ab Bootcamp thread in this forum somewhere - I'll see if I can't find that as well.

There should be a search button here .
I'll take a look.. I must be quite the masochist.. now I know how effective weight training can be, I love to have sore muscles
The incline bench was really difficult, and a good choice for the last killer set with oblique crunches.

Cheers

Fietser
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  #11   ^
Old Wed, Oct-16-02, 13:26
Fietser's Avatar
Fietser Fietser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 254
 
Plan: carb/calorie cycling
Stats: 187/134/128 Female 1,59m
BF:36%/25%/21%
Progress: 90%
Location: Netherlands
Lightbulb Will stick to deadlift

Asked the same question to a few others.. it was said that for best results with the hamstrings not the stiff-legged deadlift but the Romanian deadlift would work best, it would also give the best results for the butt.

Fietser
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