[insert long, pointless, drama-filled back-story here - this is gonna be long enough without it]

And then it ended up with the ex and I sitting in the car, screaming at each other. I ask him how he can be so f'ing hateful when I supported him all the way through college. He says, "You didn't do s**t when I was in college except sit around and get fat."

!!!!!

Here's where I start REALLY crying. We yell some more. We get around to how the deal was he would finish college and then I would go. He claimed that wasn't the case, that it was my fault I never went. I brought up his $125 THOUSAND in student loan debt that prevents me from getting a Penny's card with a limit higher than $250, let alone a student loan.

"You never finish anything you start. Don't even try to blame your f**k ups on my student loans. Name one f**king thing you started that you finished!"

"I lost all that weight I put on when you were in college. I did a pretty f**king good job of finishing that!!"

"But you still haven't lost it all. You gave up on that, too, like you give up on everything else. How much weight have you lost in the last six months? Yeah, basically none. That's what I thought."

OK, I get that we're getting a divorce and that things are bound to get nasty. I just really really REALLY felt like that was so far below the belt it was bordering on sadistic.

I also know, logically, that the reason he's saying these things is he's upset he lost me. Yes, I have major self-esteem issues, in large part because of him, and a lot of that is why our marriage ended. I was a fat, safe wife. I became a thin, hot wife. He stopped wanting to take me out, and said that he felt like he couldn't compete. I never cheated on him, never kissed another man, never even touched another man aside from a friendly hug (or the occasional drunken horseplay). Even when the man who ultimately became my rebound put the moves on me after ex and I had decided our marriage was OVER but hadn't officially split, I turned him away because I felt it would be wrong to do otherwise while I was still living with my husband.

But he constantly shied away from taking me out. For years, we had Friday night dates, because my parents wanted a night with the kids. We'd go out, get dressed up, have a good time. When I lost the weight, he would say things like "I can't afford to buy you new clothes [lie]. Just belt the old jeans for now." I started wearing make-up, and he accused me of all kinds of crazy things, like trying to attract attention. More than once he accused me of acting like a "whore" because I would talk to men (and women, but he always focused on the men) when we'd go out with friends. Soooo it finally got to the point where we would only go to dinner then to his friends' house.

He really just beat me down about my appearance. A lot. Never outright, but there was so many underhanded jabs or loaded actions that I never felt like I was worth anything. But I finally realized, despite my crappy self-esteem, that the woman looking back at me in the mirror IS beautiful. I might not feel that way, but it's objective truth. There comes a point when so many random strangers walk up and tell your significant other how lucky he is to have such a gorgeous lady that you can't chalk it up to politeness any more.

And he didn't like that I started to held my head up high and put on nice clothes and do my make-up. He would say it made him uncomfortable and wanted me to stop it. I would tell him it was no big deal - let the other boys look all they want, but I was going home with him, so he should show me off.

Then, on the rare occasion that someone would be stupid [read: drunk] enough to get too forward with a woman who was out with her husband and two or three of his [very fit] friends, his buddies would usually come to my rescue. He would have the same old tired excuse: You can take care of yourself so I'm not getting involved. Yes, I feel so loved.

Now he says these things. Ugh. Sorry for the excessively long rant. I'm just so...yeah. Just yeah.

Altari, I am so, SO sorry that you have had to go through this! I don't have any words...(((HUG))). Keep putting on that makeup, dress like the smokin' hot woman you are, and STAY STRONG. You deserve better.

I am so very very sorry you are going thru this. i've read your post, and its me. I am in a "safe" place right now and it brings back a lot of painful memories. It was never enough and its a way to control you and dominate you. No matter how good i feel my x knows just the right comment, or look, to have me reeling. I give him that power. I am trying not to, not to let myself get dragged in. It is difficult even after more than 5 years and I'm re-married. X was the same way, they get threatened when you become confident and take care of yourself. all he has to play on is your weight and they know its our biggest issue with our self esteem. I have to really watch myself because he can still make me feel like nothing. X didn't like the attention i got either but when i didn't take care of myself then i was his emotional punching bag. It is so difficult to adjust. Don't beat yourself up over it. I still do. It really does get better with time, and distance of course. But, thats not what you want to hear. what i learned was during the divorce was that no extra communication whatsover helped..it ticked me off but no you said this or you promised that..don't fall for it, its a trap and will lead you right back into the same cycle with him. His answers are never going to change and you add more stress to yourself.

Thanks, Sue. I'm planning on it, but there are a whole host of issues I'm dealing with aside from ex. We were together since we were 15. I never learned how to read men or how to act in a situation where I wasn't protected by the magical wedding band. I've gotten myself into a good bit of trouble over the last few months because of it, and sometimes i think I'd be better off sitting at home and blowing off all my engagements.

One thing's for sure. Whenever I see ex, I make sure I look like a beauty queen. He can suffer knowing what he pissed away.

mainecyn, I'm so sorry my vent brought back bad memories for you. After the last fight I had with ex, I'm going to follow your advice. Basic communication. We were trying to keep it amicable, but his control issues are becoming obscene. The last fight...we were having a very nice conversation about our plans for the future, and I asked his opinion on leasing vs buying a car as I was planning to pick one up December/January. He went off about how it was ridiculous I was even considering a new vehicle within the next year. And, eventually, it broke down to a bickering war where he said he would not be using the funds that were supposed to pay off my van, and threatened to come take it from me and sell it since I obviously didn't need it.

Meanwhile, he's become a raging alcoholic, a casual pot smoker, is about to lose his job, lives in a bachelor pad in a bad part of the city, keeps our kids at his parents' house on the weekends, and, in general, blames every problem in his life on me. He's even found reasons why his [unmedicated] bipolar disorder is my fault, riddle me that.

He knows Rebound, and things with Rebound and I ended very, very badly. The reason it ended was Rebound felt guilty, knowing Ex and all. Had Ex found out when things were good, I know he would have gone ballistic. Since he found out about it after the fact, he rubs it in my face. He even talks smack about me with that group of people, which resulted in a seriously psychologically damaging situation a week and a half ago.

It's weird. Things go fairly well when I'm in environments with no link to him. I mean, I've gotten myself into some stupid pickles on the nights I don't have my kids, but when he's fully non-existent in all ways in the situation, that's all it is. I facepalm about it for a few hours, but nothing bad. But if he's involved, or someone who is a friend of his is involved, it turns into the gigantic trauma drama. I still can't hate him, though. I really feel pretty bad for him.

I can relate to these issues and it makes them irrational and cant deal with them in a logical reason whatsoever. My x became an imense drinking, major drugs, and abusive..didnt happen over night so we had a lot of emotional stuff build up and go thru. and yes..after all you give, after all you do, and if they are unhappy, its your fault..my X would scream that I ruined his life everything that went wrong in his life was my fault etc.. and don't get me started cause I think your x is my x..he is bipolar too and started drinking and drugs to Medicate himself and then was to start therapy and take meds. he lied his way thru that till i found out and even that was supposed to be my fault cause if i didn't nag him etc etc...but the drinking, drugs, and other women, gee that was ok.

You want some advice...maybe you don't but here it is anyhow. You say been together since 15, I think you need some time to fall in love with yourself and not care what anyone else thinks. Your X is a very insecure person and he loves to make you bad about yourself because than he can control you and it makes him feel better about himself, pity him cause he's a sad excuse for a man. What's important now is your children and you healing the emotional wounds he caused. I wish you the best and remember to love yourself.

Why were you in a car screaming at him if he is your ex? Do you still have to see him?

Because when you have four children with someone there are times you have to see them. Not sure why I need to justify it.

Sorry you had to have that experience. I hear you and know you are just venting as you continue to separate emotionally from him.

I had 3 children with my ex and didn't have to see him. We just did the drop-off thing without needing to personally talk. We had the routines in writing beforehand. It helped that he was thrifty and I sent all his emails and phone calls direct to the lawyer (which court said HE was paying for, )

Have you done counseling to learn new ways in your nice new body? If you started the trauma drama when you were 15, how could you have much experience or role modeling in non-drama life. I sure didn't and it was nice to learn about other ways from my counselor. I learned things there that I would have NEVER learned from my ex or even my growing-up family.

Wasn't being snarky or mean just trying to understand. I have an ex and we have a child so I do understand-I just refuse to get down to his level and do that kind of thing anymore. Upset me and made me sick and made my son upset too. I sure hope things get better for you.

LOL I refuse to get in a vehicle with my ex. We have 3 kids. I refuse to put myself in a place where I can't just walk off. Makes him furious!!
I also make sure to meet him in a public place or with wittnesses so we are never alone.
I'm actually quite scared of my ex and I hate to admit it. But you know meeting and talking on our own terms lets them realize they are not in control anymore.

Not that it matters what you look like... but I did sneak a peak at your photos, and you are SO BEAUTIFUL. You are stunning. You must know that a small part of him is thinking, "damn, I'm a loser, look what I gave up" and THAT is why he's attacking you. You know that... in your heart.

I have to second that. You know its killing him because you are ALSO a beautiful person inside!

Divorce is extremely difficult. My x and I were together since age 18, only divorced a few years ago. I understand what it is like to have interaction and be so confused. It took me over a year to even realize dang it, we are divorced, I am allowed to tell the man NO. I'm allowed to ignore phone calls, not answer his snide remarks, and even though it hurt when he said them, I'm not "paid" to listen to his insults, rants, or whines.

It took me a long long time to even believe and act like i would around a stranger..no I'm not running something to you, or doing you a favor..no I'm not stopping to give you a ride when i see you walking, and no, I'm not gonna try to cheer you up when you call drunk, or drugged outa your mind. The divorce means, and I had to put it this way for myself, "I don't work for you anymore!" Meaning i had to learn, he was absolutely nothing to me, and I was no longer obligated to do anything for the man.

I am polite, I have to. We have two children. I text more than talk. I dislike talking with him and try to keep it very distant and business like because it is so very easy to fall into old roles, you know what i mean? ?All those years of trying to please him and jumping when he says jump. You can do anything you want.

This is an excellent suggestion; that's what counseling is FOR. Ideally, it's to mop up the lingering problems that occur when our upbringing left gaps and there's areas where we could use some maturation help.

The way I see it, growing up should never stop. I got blindsided by menopause a couple of years ago, and I'm still adjusting to it; saw a counselor and got help. And it helped me later, too, when I realized I was acting irrationally, and was able to figure it out and fix it.

There's no reason to re-invent the wheel. Four kids means you need to cut to the chase when it's a bad thing; so you have the time for good things, for them and for you.

~seejay & ~lisa, we were trying to be "amicable." Ex said he wanted to stay "friends" since we'd been together for so long. Part of me will always love him [because we were together so long] and, like mainecyn said, you fall into a pattern.

I didn't mean to be snippy. It's just...weird. You spend most of your cognizant life with someone, and you know exactly what they are capable of, but you just keep letting them do it over and over [and ad nauseum]. The definition of insanity...

~kaylakala, I started that this week. Saturday morning, he picks them up from my parents (they demanded "grandparents' rights" for Friday night custody :P). My dad deals with him then. On Monday or Tuesday morning (depending on his mood), he drops the kids off at home. Well, we said only a handful of words to each other today and I felt very good after he left. =)

~ivanna, awww thank you, honey. I know that he's kicking himself - we had some social engagements we'd agreed we'd follow through with, and he was quite dismayed that I didn't rush back to his arm when other men got forward. He's told me for years I can take care of myself, and NOW he wants to. Ha.


This sums it up exactly. Sometimes I feel like I spent the last ~11 years molding myself into a person who was only capable of caring for him. He threatens suicide, I panic. He calls me crying, I instinctively want to rush to his side. He criticizes me, I internalize it and want to fix it to please him. And, afterward, I want a stiff drink because I hate myself for it.

~werebear, yes, I am considering counseling. I've also discovered, after several extraordinarily self-destructive encounters with men [that fortunately did not result in the ultimate self-hate of a one-night "home run"] that my ex sufficiently trained me to be good for nothing but sex [and cooking, but at least I like doing that]. I find that I'm always maneuvering in that direction even with casual male friends, as part of me believes they won't want to be near me unless I put out.

Fortunately, the man I'm casually seeing at the moment is very insistent on not rushing things. In the broken part of my self-image, it's a panic-inducing slap in the face - if he doesn't want that, what could he want?? In the other part, though, it's this awe-inspiring novelty...he just likes my company. It's been a long time since I've felt that from anyone but my best friends.