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  #1   ^
Old Wed, May-02-18, 09:46
s93uv3h's Avatar
s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,662
 
Plan: Atkins & IF / TRE
Stats: 000/000/000 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 97%
Default gaming my annual labs...

Inspired by this thread: How to Lower Cholesterol...new post by Dr Eades, specifically, this Dave Feldman video: Dave Feldman - 'The Dynamic Influence of a High Fat Diet on Cholesterol Variability', where he shows the decrease in his cholesterol when he eats more fat in the 3 days before the blood test.

So I'd like to load up on fat 3 days before my lab test. I want my doc to take me off statins - for good.

Let's say I want to eat 400g of fat (or thereabouts) for each of the three days leading up to it.

What menu could you suggest?

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  #2   ^
Old Wed, May-02-18, 10:50
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,422
 
Plan: P:E=>1 (Q3-22)
Stats: 168/100/82 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 79%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s93uv3h
Inspired by this thread: How to Lower Cholesterol...new post by Dr Eades, specifically, this Dave Feldman video: Dave Feldman - 'The Dynamic Influence of a High Fat Diet on Cholesterol Variability', where he shows the decrease in his cholesterol when he eats more fat in the 3 days before the blood test.

So I'd like to load up on fat 3 days before my lab test. I want my doc to take me off statins - for good.

Let's say I want to eat 400g of fat (or thereabouts) for each of the three days leading up to it.

What menu could you suggest?



Hi, I've been following some of your posts. Good job and welcome! Take my advice for what it's worth...

First, if you want to get all that fat and fool the test, I'd suggested drinking it in form of butter and coconut oil. It will be the easiest way and most accurate measure. However, I would strongly suggest you get a good normal baseline by following the lab's procedures. Without a base line all this other stuff is meaningless - Also, you don't have to ingest statins, that's your choice. So if you have "terrible" results, at least you'll know and then can start fooling around with gaming the system.

It's probably easy for me to say this since I have not had a doctor advise me to take statins. You do what you think is right and I'd support you with whatever that is.

I just got mine done yesterday. It was coming off or regular eating but I was on a fasting day (36hrs) so take it for what it's worth (not that much really) - One of the markers that some people pay attention to is the Triglyceride:HDL ratio - I was slightly under 1 - Now watch, I'll croak of a heart attack soon from the news

Cholesterol - 198 mg/dL recommended <200 mg/dL
Triglycerides - 56 mg/dL recommended <150 mg/dL
HDL Cholesterol - 57 mg/dL recommended >39 mg/dL
LDL Cholesterol Calculated - 130 mg/dL recommended <100 mg/dL
Non HDL Cholesterol - 141 mg/dL recommended <130 mg/dL

A graph - I think the first datapoint was before I started LCHF style of eating...



Build up some momentum and eating LCHF and see if it's sustainable for you. Then when you've got a good base to build from, start making slight changes if you want to please your doctors or insurance companies. These come SECOND after your good health.

I wish you well and many happy success!
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  #3   ^
Old Wed, May-02-18, 12:51
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 8,475
 
Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
BF:disappearing!
Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
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Both fasting and sudden high-fat consumption can up-regulate triglycerides and your LDL. That's been my experience. I too got the "you need satins" lecture and a bottle in the post. Prescription went in the trash bin
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  #4   ^
Old Wed, May-02-18, 13:31
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 19,179
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

WHen I low carb, my numbers are good. Give your body time to adapt.

Also, taking statins is a matter of choice. Your doctor cannot make you take them.

Expect push back and show the data on the dangers of statins.

Perhaps you would like to see your real numbers without the statins--

I remember the letter I got from Brighamam and Womens hospital-- one of the big 5 in MASS, after a blood draw. A generic letter indicating my blood work was bad and the steps to change it for the better.

Since when is 180 total bad. THe LDL was great and the HDL was great.

They had a preconceived idea on what my numbers would be.

Made me angry and never went back---they are in the dark ages IMO.

You need to see your real numbers, and you need to know your body needs time to adjust to the new way of eating. 1-2 months to see real numbers.

THere is also more indicators that more than a total cholesterol than 200 could be a good thing--it is really what the components are.

NO DOCTOR CAN MAKE YOU DO THE SUGGESTED TREATMENT. I learned this from an emergency doc in Burlington, VT. He made me feel empowered to manage my own health.

Every doctor since has had his or her own adjenda that I am pushed to follow.

I keep my mouth shut about LC, and let the blood work speak for itself.

Remember doctor is likely to get kickbacks putting patients on the statins.
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  #5   ^
Old Wed, May-02-18, 15:31
s93uv3h's Avatar
s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,662
 
Plan: Atkins & IF / TRE
Stats: 000/000/000 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 97%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thud123
Build up some momentum and eating LCHF and see if it's sustainable for you. Then when you've got a good base to build from, start making slight changes if you want to please your doctors or insurance companies. These come SECOND after your good health.

I wish you well and many happy success!

Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_d
Both fasting and sudden high-fat consumption can up-regulate triglycerides and your LDL. That's been my experience. I too got the "you need satins" lecture and a bottle in the post. Prescription went in the trash bin

Smart move. Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
WHen I low carb, my numbers are good. Give your body time to adapt.

Also, taking statins is a matter of choice. Your doctor cannot make you take them..

Thank you.

ALL makes sense. I will stop fasting well before the test and take it straight to see how it does with LC. I will have a good 6 months (I stopped simvastatin and zetia 4/19).
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, May-02-18, 16:00
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 19,179
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Just to be clear, I dont stop or change how I eat to take these tests.

(Im the heaviest ever, yet my bp is good. I credit a mostly LC life.)
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  #7   ^
Old Thu, May-03-18, 04:09
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,371
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

Agree you should have a lipid panel first on a straight low carb diet, but another twist....if you are actively losing weight now, that can mess with results too. Low carb doctors often wait until the patient is weight stable to run a panel, Dr Davis's explanation: http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2015/...nfuses-doctors/
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  #8   ^
Old Thu, May-03-18, 04:14
s93uv3h's Avatar
s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,662
 
Plan: Atkins & IF / TRE
Stats: 000/000/000 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 97%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Agree you should have a lipid panel first on a straight low carb diet, but another twist....if you are actively losing weight now, that can mess with results too. Low carb doctors often wait until the patient is weight stable to run a panel, Dr Davis's explanation: http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2015/...nfuses-doctors/

Reading it now - thanks.

I'm pretty sure I can stabilize my weight loss by August for my October labs and be in hover mode.

edit: ~JEY100 from the wheat belly blog, para 6, I don't understand why "Fatty acids and triglycerides block the action of insulin, thereby causing higher insulin levels, higher blood glucose, and higher HBA1c levels (or at least a failure to drop)..

Would this still be true in ketosis? Or, I'm thinking, that of course there are periods of insulin increase during ketosis (have to be - you have to eat).

.

Last edited by s93uv3h : Thu, May-03-18 at 04:49.
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  #9   ^
Old Thu, May-03-18, 09:13
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

I'll give it a shot.

Liver insulin resistance is one of the big issues with/causing insulin resistance and type II diabetes. Fatty liver is involved in this process.

So that's a start. Next step--triglycerides are relatively inert, they're the storage form for fat, so this is sensible. Fatty liver contpributes to insulin resistance in the liver, and due to the liver's important role in whole body metabolism, fuel flux etc, liver insulin resistance is almost equivalent to whole body insulin resistance. It's not the triglycerides, though, that cause the liver to be insulin resistance. There are actually some studies in mic where choline deficiency prevents type 2 diabetes in mice by making their livers fattier. Lack of choline interferes with the ability to metabolize fats--so triglycerides increase in their livers, but the free fatty acids and certain metabolites of fat that actually cause the insulin resistance are decreased.

Okay, so you've got somebody with a fatty liver, they go on a low carb diet. Maybe they had lots of triglyceride stored in the liver, but it was inert, not so much the free fatty acids and byproducts, like those choline-deficient mice. Added to this you have the increased release of free fatty acids from the fat tissue, which an already fatty liver is ill-coped to deal with. The liver is busy defatting itself, but in the process there's this issue of insulin resistance to work through.

Ketosis might be different if the rate at which the liver defats itself is different. Also if you are insulin resistant, putting less glucose into the system will probably reduce blood glucose even if it doesn't clear up insulin resistance/glucose tolerance right away. You just have less glucose to be intolerant of.

Triglycerides in the blood are a little different, although once they're broken down and delivered to whatever tissue they end up at, they'll likely reduce local demand for glucose and have the same potential of increasing insulin resistance as fatty acids.

Different types of free fatty acids have different effects on insulin resistance, palmitic acid that's high in dairy triggers insulin resistance vs. various other fats, polyunsaturated fats tend to go the other way, I think it would be interesting to see if the fatty acid profile of our fat tissue, which depends on what you've been eating for years (unless your a bodybuilder and have recent cut down to 5 percent body fat or something) has on insulin resistance early on in weight loss.
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  #10   ^
Old Thu, May-03-18, 09:25
s93uv3h's Avatar
s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,662
 
Plan: Atkins & IF / TRE
Stats: 000/000/000 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 97%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
I'll give it a shot.

Thanks! I won't say that I understand it all, but my knowledge is increasing slowly and I will come back to this for sure. That's one of the main reasons I started LC, not to lose weight, but to give my organs a break.

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