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  #1   ^
Old Tue, May-16-17, 04:06
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
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Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default Bad Science from Dr Esselstyn by The Skeptical Cardiologist

Just discovered The Skeptical Cardiologist (based in St Louis if anyone is interested) through a Twitter repost of his second post on the topic of:

MORE INCREDIBLY BAD SCIENCE FROM DR. ESSELSTYN’S PLANT-BASED (VEGAN) DIET STUDY

https://theskepticalcardiologist.co...gan-diet-study/

Many, many heart health topics (CAC, calcium, aspirin, and of course statins) covered at:
https://theskepticalcardiologist.com
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  #2   ^
Old Tue, May-16-17, 10:19
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GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
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Looks like an information feast. Thanks again, Janet!
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, May-16-17, 10:41
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thud123 thud123 is offline
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Plan: P:E=>1 (Q3-22)
Stats: 168/100/82 Male 182cm
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What a brilliant little saying he wrote down, looks like he's using it as a quote or aphorism: "The Plural of Anecdote Is Not Data"

Gawd I love that line!
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, May-16-17, 11:04
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Mama Sebo Mama Sebo is offline
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Plan: Keto, IF
Stats: 224/136/124 Female 64 inches
BF:44%/23%/20%
Progress: 88%
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Too true!!
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  #5   ^
Old Thu, May-18-17, 08:51
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Merpig Merpig is offline
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Plan: EF/Fung IDM/keto
Stats: 375/225.4/175 Female 66.5 inches
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Location: NE Florida
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Reading a few articles. So far they all directly contradict advice given by Dr. Davis in his new book, "Undoctored", such as calling functional or integrative medicine as " bogus" and "quakery", saying fish oil (which Dr. Davis highly recommends) is useless, etc.
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  #6   ^
Old Thu, May-18-17, 09:26
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cotonpal cotonpal is offline
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Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merpig
Reading a few articles. So far they all directly contradict advice given by Dr. Davis in his new book, "Undoctored", such as calling functional or integrative medicine as " bogus" and "quakery", saying fish oil (which Dr. Davis highly recommends) is useless, etc.



I noticed this too. He strikes me as one of those people who's put his toe in the water, maybe even occasionally waded up to his knees, but still afraid to dive into the waves. He says very low carb is unsustainable for most people and a Mediterranean diet with healthy whole grains is the way to go.

Jean
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  #7   ^
Old Fri, May-19-17, 04:24
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
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Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Ok, thanks for checking that. I lhad ooked at his articles about the CAC, etc and thought he was aligned with current thought on its value, cholesterol, etc.

Fish oil has become very controversial. Chris Kresser has an article updated this year with some more research against its use. https://chriskresser.com/should-you...aking-fish-oil/
And funny observation...Dr Davis has Chris Kresser as an Unbiased Resource in the appendix..so chose which one to believe.

So when Dr Davis recommends some 3600 EPA/DHA in UnDoctored...not so sure I should believe him either. That's a lot of pills! Way OTT for some with low trigs. I look at so many sources that give conflicting advice, at least in the details, I tend to waver between them, or reach some middle ground...until the next article

Same with Dr Davis's fertilizing the gut with raw potato, etc. Others say a good variety of Low net carb vegetables will give prebiotics ...and way more tasty.

Last edited by JEY100 : Fri, May-19-17 at 08:27.
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  #8   ^
Old Fri, May-19-17, 07:32
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cotonpal cotonpal is offline
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Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62
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Progress: 109%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thud123
What a brilliant little saying he wrote down, looks like he's using it as a quote or aphorism: "The Plural of Anecdote Is Not Data"

Gawd I love that line!


I agree that it is a clever line but sometimes the weight of anecdotes reveals a truth that gets hidden in the so-called data.

So, although the plural of anecdote may not be data, the synonym of data may not be truth. Data can be poorly collected, poorly interpreted or even suppressed.

Also the synonym of anecdote is not falsehood. It implies untested but not necessarily untrue.

Jean
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  #9   ^
Old Fri, May-19-17, 09:16
Mama Sebo's Avatar
Mama Sebo Mama Sebo is offline
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Plan: Keto, IF
Stats: 224/136/124 Female 64 inches
BF:44%/23%/20%
Progress: 88%
Location: Kenya-teleworking Austria
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Oh Jean, that is a wise statement. Although I agree that the plural of anecdote may not be data, I do believe that carefully assessed unique observations (anecdotes) may be rolled up to serve as data. But then, I'm an anthropologist, and thats what we do.
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  #10   ^
Old Fri, May-19-17, 09:23
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
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Posts: 7,582
 
Plan: EF/Fung IDM/keto
Stats: 375/225.4/175 Female 66.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 75%
Location: NE Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Fish oil has become very controversial. Chris Kresser has an article updated this year with some more research against its use. https://chriskresser.com/should-you...aking-fish-oil/
True I'm not sure what I think about fish oil, which I actually don't take, though occasionally eat sardines. In fact, while I love Dr. Davis's writing style, I was actually somewhat disappointed in his book. I need to go through it again to find the points that concerned me. But I'm still more in line with him than the Skeptical Cardiologist who, in general, seems to toe the mainstream medical line, and mostly seems to regard anything alternative as quackery - at least in the few posts I read so far.
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  #11   ^
Old Fri, May-19-17, 09:29
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
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Plan: P:E=>1 (Q3-22)
Stats: 168/100/82 Male 182cm
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Progress: 79%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cotonpal
I agree that it is a clever line but sometimes the weight of anecdotes reveals a truth that gets hidden in the so-called data.

So, although the plural of anecdote may not be data, the synonym of data may not be truth. Data can be poorly collected, poorly interpreted or even suppressed.

Also the synonym of anecdote is not falsehood. It implies untested but not necessarily untrue.

Jean

Both can be used inappropriately to beat another over the head, neither are true or false, they just are.
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  #12   ^
Old Fri, May-19-17, 10:00
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Mama Sebo Mama Sebo is offline
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Posts: 5,202
 
Plan: Keto, IF
Stats: 224/136/124 Female 64 inches
BF:44%/23%/20%
Progress: 88%
Location: Kenya-teleworking Austria
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Thats right and that is the message: both can be used inappropriately, so lets not!!! Thanks Merpig!!!
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