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  #31   ^
Old Wed, Aug-11-04, 15:24
treefrog's Avatar
treefrog treefrog is offline
Finding Balance
Posts: 6,093
 
Plan: Atkins/PP Maint, IF24/24
Stats: 162/123/120 Female 63.5 inches
BF:~50%/23.9%/20%
Progress: 93%
Location: Raleigh, NC, USA
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Here are my numbers

Pre-LC

Total 215
HDL 71
LDL 125
Trig. 94

4 months later

Total 273
HDL 69
LDL 173
Trig. 153

My doctor eanted me to stop LC, or take medications, I talked her into waiting till the end of Oct. to see if they start to come back down.
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  #32   ^
Old Tue, Oct-26-04, 17:41
dina1957 dina1957 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,854
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 194/000/150 Female 5'5"
BF:Not sure
Progress: 441%
Location: Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DitzyToad
As you can see bad cholesterol has gone down and good cholesterol is up.... but so has my triglycerides. I know they are still at a good level but I can't understand what made them go up. Alot of what I have read on the net is that triglycerides can rise from sugar and carbs..... HUH? I eat very little of both since on LC diet but they have gone up. Any ideas?
Hi DotzyToad:
My DH who is not nearly on low carb diet but doesn't eat any refined carbs and sugars, had problem with elevated cholesterol for a while. His last blood work showed total = 252, LDL =187, HDL = 51. I don't remeber what exactly his TRI were and don't have his blood test in front of me but they were less than 100. DH is known for his life long love with full fat dairy, like cheese, butter, cream, and also eggs and bacon, LOL. So, after being Rx lovostatin, which I warned him not to take, he decided to cut saturated fat from his diet for 3 months and then get anohter lipid panel test done. So, he ate egg whites instead of whole eggs, no red meat and bacon, butter, cream, whole milk, etc. Only olive oil, nuts, seeds, non-fat dairy. Keep in mind, his intake of vegetables and fruits is quite high, he also eats oatmeal and good quality italian bread on a regular basis, for may be 200+ carbs a day. So, in three months, his total CHO = 165, LDL=103, HDL=52 and his TRI dropped to 52.
I've always thoguht that high TRI come from mostly carbs but based on DH results, it's not true.
Now, DH who doesn't support low carb diets at all, he did it to show that saturated fat was the culprit to his high cholesterol, not the fruits and grains he consumed, as I've been nagging him for a while.
Honestly, I was trying to convince him to adopt a low carb diet, it looks that low saturated fat/cholesterol diet worked for him better. Go figure...
My CHO started also climbing (mostly LDL) after almost 2 years on lc, so I decided to give it a try and my LDL dropped 15 points after cutting saturated fat as well. No we both eat olive oil, nuts and nut butters, lots of cold water fish, seafood, some skinless poultry, and low/no fat yougurt and cottage cheese for dairy. Ocationally, he'd eat some parmesan, which is the lowest in fat/cho.
You can try the switcheroo and see if it works for you, it fits the lc WOE easily.
Good luck,
Dina

Last edited by dina1957 : Tue, Oct-26-04 at 17:48.
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  #33   ^
Old Fri, Oct-29-04, 15:22
sunspine17's Avatar
sunspine17 sunspine17 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,187
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 206/144/135 Female 5'8
BF:
Progress: 87%
Location: NW Indiana
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Just had mine done.

Total Cholesterol: 198
Triglycerides: 86
LDL: 131
HDL: 50

I have read that the LDL should be under 130, which I'm just over. My doc says it should be under 100. Is this a new guideline? Any opinions on this?

The last time I had my cholesterol checked it had to be a good 10 years ago (when I ate crap 24/7). I don't remember the exact numbers but the doc was sooooo pleased. He kept going on and on about how great my numbers were. I want to say I was around 180? I'm not sure what the individual breakouts were though. Also, if I'm not mistaken, back then didn't the docs tend to concentrate on the overall number rather than really recognizing the difference between good and bad cholesterol?

So, I'm happy with my numbers now overall but I had wished they would be a little better. They seem on the high end of acceptable to me-- especially the LDL number (and especially if it's 100 and not 130 that I should be aiming for). Am I being too hard on myself? Is this a decent result?
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  #34   ^
Old Fri, Oct-29-04, 17:54
dina1957 dina1957 is offline
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Posts: 1,854
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 194/000/150 Female 5'5"
BF:Not sure
Progress: 441%
Location: Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunspine17
Just had mine done.

Total Cholesterol: 198
Triglycerides: 86
LDL: 131
HDL: 50

I have read that the LDL should be under 130, which I'm just over. My doc says it should be under 100. Is this a new guideline? Any opinions on this?

sunspine17Actually, recent guidelines for LDL <100 are for high risk group, those with either family history of CAD or diabetes, or both.
As for general population, LDL < 130, at least, most of the labs have this range.
I wouldn't worry too much, being a women and still young, but if you have any risk factos doesn't hurt to get it bit lower if you can.
http://www.americanheart.org/presen...?identifier=183
Dina
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  #35   ^
Old Fri, Oct-29-04, 22:20
amethyst1's Avatar
amethyst1 amethyst1 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 285
 
Plan: Carb-cycling
Stats: 175/165/120 Female 5 feet 2 inches
BF:BMI = 31%
Progress: 18%
Location: Sunny California
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I just recently had mine rechecked:

Total cholesterol = 192

Triglycerides = 73

HDL = 65

LDL = 112

I am so stoked, b/c with this WOE, I have come down from a totaL cholesterol of 234!

Everything else is way down as well, eventhough now I don't remember the exact numbers. My doc was elated!!
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  #36   ^
Old Tue, Nov-02-04, 14:07
ItsTheWooo's Avatar
ItsTheWooo ItsTheWooo is offline
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Posts: 4,815
 
Plan: My Own
Stats: 280/118/117.5 Female 5ft 5.25 in
BF:
Progress: 100%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiemcm
Let's find out lipid profiles of lo carb folks.
Please post your total cholesterol,LDL,HDL and triglycerides to see how
we stack up against the world.


Here are my results from 8/19/03. I was 220 lbs at the time and had been ketogenic, high fat LCing for roughly 5 months. I took the test in the fasted state early in the morning.

Total chol - 193 (normal)
HDL - 36 (slightly low)
LDL - 127 (normal)
Triglycerides - 151 (slightly elevated)
HDL/chol ratio - 5.4 (unfavorable)

Not very impressive results, really. I have reasonably low total cholesterol but my HDL sucks and so do my triglycerides... (triglycerides are especially bad considering I was ketogenic low carbing at the time, and high triglycerides correlate with abnormalities of sugar metabolism, i.e. eating a high sugar diet). Unfortunately I can't say how these values changed from before I started the diet, as I made the mistake of failing to get it tested.

Today I got my blood work done again. I now eat significantly more carbohydrate (15-20% daily calories) and have lost 100 lbs since last test (I weighed 123 on the doctors scale (fully clothed w/ shoes) and last visit I was somewhere around 200-220 ... I don't recall exactly). I also eat much less animal fat. So, we'll see how things have changed.

One note: The test showed I was moderately hypoglycemic (60) at the time of the test. Also, my triglycerides were pretty high considering the diet was ketogenic. Seeing as I was eating so very little carbohydrate for weeks, not exerting myself at all, and in the fasted state, the fact I still had low blood sugar/relatively high triglycerides probably implies I have some degree/type of hyperinsulinemia & metabolic disorder. I should have expected unfavorable lipids really, considering as I had tons of symptoms pre-diet (of reactive hypoglycemia, PCOS, etc). So, please note that my unfavorable cholesterol might have more to do with my own personal health state (metabolic syndrome = lipid abnormalities) than the diet itself. For all we know, the diet improved things. I'm quite certain my triglycerides were likely way higher before.

Last edited by ItsTheWooo : Tue, Nov-02-04 at 14:14.
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  #37   ^
Old Tue, Nov-02-04, 16:35
ItsTheWooo's Avatar
ItsTheWooo ItsTheWooo is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 4,815
 
Plan: My Own
Stats: 280/118/117.5 Female 5ft 5.25 in
BF:
Progress: 100%
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It is my understanding that low hdl and high triglycerides correlate with hyperinsulinemia, right? This is why most metabolically normal people see these values improve dramatically on a LC diet, and why metabolically abnormal people see improvement (even if not to normalcy).

Very slight hypoglycemia, in a fasted state, could also be indicative of hyperinsulinemia.

Hyperinsulinemia is indicative of either a) high carb, "supersize me" american diet, b) metabolic disorder, or c) both.

Seeing as I was eating below 20 carbs, that's out. That leaves option B as the culprit - metabolic disorder. I've long suspected I had true metabolic syndrome and abnormally high insulin levels (even on LC). I am quite certain I have PCOS. Even now, as thin as I am and as healthful as my diet is, my PCOS still is poorly controlled (I haven't had a period in months).

I know this question isn't really related to CHD really, but what do you guys think? I think my triglycerides were ridiculously high for someone eating almost no carbs, who is losing weight, and is as young as I am. Then with the low HDL and slight hypoglycemia and PCOS... it just screams insulin problems to me.
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  #38   ^
Old Tue, Nov-02-04, 17:14
dina1957 dina1957 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,854
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 194/000/150 Female 5'5"
BF:Not sure
Progress: 441%
Location: Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsTheWooo
It is my understanding that low hdl and high triglycerides correlate with hyperinsulinemia, right? This is why most metabolically normal people see these values improve dramatically on a LC diet, and why metabolically abnormal people see improvement (even if not to normalcy).
Woo:
Are you aware that metabolic syndrome (syndrome X) is a cluster of problems, one of them is elevated CHO with with low HDL and high TRI . Also PCOS is present in the majority of cases, and BTW, some not overweight women have it too.

Quote:
I am quite certain I have PCOS. Even now, as thin as I am and as healthful as my diet is, my PCOS still is poorly controlled (I haven't had a period in months).
Have you ever get tested for PCOS, you just assumed because of irregular/absent periods? I believe that there are tests like free Testosterone and other hormones that can indicate PCOS, also ovarian ultrasound seems very good indicator of the syndrome. I'd get tested first before assuming PCOS. Being more than 100 pounds overiweght definetely puts strain on your reproductive system and wreckes all your hormones. Also, I've known girls without PCOS and not actually obese, who have their periods stopped because of significant weight loss too (vanity fair). May be we can't be as lean as this society wants us to be to maintain our female functionality. May be your body is not happy with your current weight, and you need to regain 10-20 pounds?

Quote:
I know this question isn't really related to CHD really, but what do you guys think? I think my triglycerides were ridiculously high for someone eating almost no carbs, who is losing weight, and is as young as I am. Then with the low HDL and slight hypoglycemia and PCOS... it just screams insulin problems to me.
Well, for what I can see, not everyone even on Atkins has low (<60) TRI , so the opposite is true as well. Despite everyone being 100% positive, that TRI are directly related to carbs consumption, some folks on Atkins still have much higher TRI than it should be, and some experience raise in TRI despite the lc diet. Carbs are not only the culprit, alcohol does the trick with TRI, impared liver function work against us, and of course metabolical imbalance is aproblem.
As for hyperinsulemia, how you've managed to lose weight if you insulin level is still too high, it doesn't seem right. It's actually very easy to test, get your fasting (8 hours) insulin level checked, and you'll know where you stand. You better do GTT with insulin level.
Again, rather than assuming anything, please, see Endo and get blood work done, it's very crucial for women's health to maintain her periods, especially at such a young age. If PCOS is confirmed, there is Metformin (Glucophag) for PCOS, it is Rx to promote ovulation.
Best of luck,
Dina
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  #39   ^
Old Tue, Nov-02-04, 19:34
ItsTheWooo's Avatar
ItsTheWooo ItsTheWooo is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 4,815
 
Plan: My Own
Stats: 280/118/117.5 Female 5ft 5.25 in
BF:
Progress: 100%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dina1957
Woo:
Are you aware that metabolic syndrome (syndrome X) is a cluster of problems, one of them is elevated CHO with with low HDL and high TRI . Also PCOS is present in the majority of cases, and BTW, some not overweight women have it too.

Yes, I knew that.
I also always greatly suspected I had it due to symptoms.

I don't know why I'm so surprised to see my lipids are crap, though. I think I just thought that eating LC would magically fix everything. I guess it doesn't work that way.
Quote:
Have you ever get tested for PCOS, you just assumed because of irregular/absent periods? I believe that there are tests like free Testosterone and other hormones that can indicate PCOS, also ovarian ultrasound seems very good indicator of the syndrome. I'd get tested first before assuming PCOS. Being more than 100 pounds overiweght definetely puts strain on your reproductive system and wreckes all your hormones.

No, I've never gotten officially tested, however I am almost certain I do have it.

First of all I had every single symptom, quite badly, prior to begining LC. I know excess weight can also mess up the reproductive system, but that doesn't explain how the symptoms poofed almost over night upon starting the diet. The acne I had since I was about 9 years old went away within a week... far too short a time frame to attribute to weight loss. I had the first period in my life within a month of the diet.

When I was 16 or 17 I had my hormones checked for abnormalities. Unfortunately I never got to see the results, but the doctor did say testosterone was "a little high" (I'm sure it was very significant, you know how doctors are - they play down anything they can't readily medicate). She wasn't even screening me for PCOS, so who knows what else showed up. I didn't request it, as I had no idea what PCOS was at the time... I just knew there was probably something wrong with my hormones.

I never got the ovarian ultrasound to check for cysts... I just got a referral from my doctor to have that done, though.
Quote:
Also, I've known girls without PCOS and not actually obese, who have their periods stopped because of significant weight loss too (vanity fair). May be we can't be as lean as this society wants us to be to maintain our female functionality. May be your body is not happy with your current weight, and you need to regain 10-20 pounds?

My sister also has PCOS symptoms and has never weighed more than 140 lbs... but she is heavily apple shaped despite this rather low weight. Currently she's about 130.

I would accept low weight as a possible cause, but the thing is the problems began to onset when I was still obese. Maybe it's just the process of losing weight itself that is causing issues... maybe not. Personally I think it's the PCOS.
Quote:
Well, for what I can see, not everyone even on Atkins has low (<60) TRI , so the opposite is true as well. Despite everyone being 100% positive, that TRI are directly related to carbs consumption, some folks on Atkins still have much higher TRI than it should be, and some experience raise in TRI despite the lc diet. Carbs are not only the culprit, alcohol does the trick with TRI, impared liver function work against us, and of course metabolical imbalance is aproblem.
As for hyperinsulemia, how you've managed to lose weight if you insulin level is still too high, it doesn't seem right. It's actually very easy to test, get your fasting (8 hours) insulin level checked, and you'll know where you stand. You better do GTT with insulin level.
Again, rather than assuming anything, please, see Endo and get blood work done, it's very crucial for women's health to maintain her periods, especially at such a young age. If PCOS is confirmed, there is Metformin (Glucophag) for PCOS, it is Rx to promote ovulation.
Best of luck,
Dina

People say tri = carbs ... but I am coming to the conclusion that high tri = insulin/metabolic abnormalities. It just so happens that for most people, the metabolic abnormalities are caused by over eating too many carbs.

You can be hyperinsulinemic and still thin. You can be IR and lose weight. The thing with insulin is not just the raw level, it's more what the level is compared to the blood sugar and other processes related to it. Athough raw level is significant, the ultimate marker of metabolic syndrome is the level of insulin relative to the level of blood glucose (energy). This is what a true GTT measures. It is possible to be fasting, or even starved and still hyperinsulinemic. If insulin is higher than what it should be relative to the level of sugar, that's elevated insulin. It is a mistake to assume hyperinsulinemia can only occur if one is eating to the point where they are gaining weight. Hyperinsulinemia can make it much easier to gain weight, and conversely eating too much causes hyperinsulinemia... but it's a mistake to say weight loss is an impossibility if relatively elevated insulin is present. Insulin can be absolutely low, yet still relatively elevated. Take a diabetic and starve them, and sure their insulin levels will come down. They will elevate glucagon and burn fat. However, I'm quite certain that if you measured the diabetic's insulin and compared it to that of a healthy person under the same conditions... it would still be elevated. So, even if absolutely low (e.g. compare someone with metabolic syndrome in the fasted state to a healthy person in the fed state, yes the metabolic syndrome person may have "low" insulin), it can be relatively high and theoretically hyperinsulinemic (e.g. compare that same person to a healthy person in the fasted state, and the metabolic syndrome individual will have relatively higher insulin). I hope this is making sense.

I once read somewhere that those who have true metabolic syndrome often do rather poorly on ketogenic diets. If one really sits and thinks about it, it makes a lot of sense. To thrive on a ketogenic diet you really need to push insulin low, so as to fuel your body adequately. If for whatever reason you can't do that by dietary modification alone, your body won't be able to raise catabolic hormones and efficiently handle the protein/fat load you are dumping on your body. Result? You feel about as good as a diabetic with poor control. Sapped of energy and absolutely lethargic. You never quite get over induction "flu" because of the hyperinsulinemia. If this were true, it would certainly explain my intolerance of extremely low carbohydrate levels.
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  #40   ^
Old Wed, Nov-03-04, 00:13
dina1957 dina1957 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,854
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 194/000/150 Female 5'5"
BF:Not sure
Progress: 441%
Location: Bay Area
Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsTheWooo

First of all I had every single symptom, quite badly, prior to begining LC. I know excess weight can also mess up the reproductive system, but that doesn't explain how the symptoms poofed almost over night upon starting the diet. The acne I had since I was about 9 years old went away within a week... far too short a time frame to attribute to weight loss. I had the first period in my life within a month of the diet.
Disappearing acne could be a result of illiminating proinflamatory and allegry triggering food from your diet , i.e. wheat, processed sugars, dairy. Many ppl don't realized that this is all they need to do to start feeling better.

Quote:
When I was 16 or 17 I had my hormones checked for abnormalities. Unfortunately I never got to see the results, but the doctor did say testosterone was "a little high" (I'm sure it was very significant, you know how doctors are - they play down anything they can't readily medicate). She wasn't even screening me for PCOS, so who knows what else showed up. I didn't request it, as I had no idea what PCOS was at the time... I just knew there was probably something wrong with my hormones.
I never got the ovarian ultrasound to check for cysts... I just got a referral from my doctor to have that done, though.
Even more reasons to finally get all the test done.

Quote:
I would accept low weight as a possible cause, but the thing is the problems began to onset when I was still obese. Maybe it's just the process of losing weight itself that is causing issues... maybe not. Personally I think it's the PCOS.
Actually, women with PCOS supposedly thrive on LC diets, for what I've read on the web so far. But everyone is different...

Quote:
People say tri = carbs ... but I am coming to the conclusion that high tri = insulin/metabolic abnormalities. It just so happens that for most people, the metabolic abnormalities are caused by over eating too many carbs.
It's still not necessary true, high TRI not always =high carbs. I suspect when one consumes a very high saturated fat diet, liver can become overburden with it and not function properly, resulting in higher CHO in generala nd high TRI. I agree that syndrome X is often related to being overweight or obese, not sure which come first, may be metabolic syndrome is what some ppl are born with, not just accure because of being overweight. Even when I was 194, my CHO was OK, < 200 and tri were <100. But I'm still overweight even at my current weight according to the BMI scale.

Quote:
I once read somewhere that those who have true metabolic syndrome often do rather poorly on ketogenic diets. If one really sits and thinks about it, it makes a lot of sense. To thrive on a ketogenic diet you really need to push insulin low, so as to fuel your body adequately. If for whatever reason you can't do that by dietary modification alone, your body won't be able to raise catabolic hormones and efficiently handle the protein/fat load you are dumping on your body. Result? You feel about as good as a diabetic with poor control. Sapped of energy and absolutely lethargic. You never quite get over induction "flu" because of the hyperinsulinemia. If this were true, it would certainly explain my intolerance of extremely low carbohydrate levels.
I'm nor voerly hyperinsulemic but I can't tolerate very low carb too, I don't feel lethargic but don't like this crappy nausated feeling, yuk.
But it is completely opposite to what Dr.Atkins states, that ketogenic diet will lower basal insulin in all cases, and I actually can't imagine that eating next to no carbs will keep insulin level still high. It could be in case when the controlling mechanism is broken beyond the point of being repaired, like in long term poorly controlled t2 diabetes.
It's not linear though, and another proof that we all are unique.
Regards,
Dina
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