That's quite insightful--were you ever a vegetarian? I was, for a few years on college. I would say that the thought process you describe fit my situation quite well (many different difficult personal issues to deal with, easier to make a drastic, "grand" sweeping gesture that instantly makes me morally superior to others). Though that was a long time ago, and I don't recall completely what I was thinking.

Unfortunately, with the little nutritional knowledge I had, even I could see that my diet was not healthy, and my body was starting to show the effects of poor diet. Not to say that a vegetarian can't eat a healthy diet, it just takes a lot more work. A vegan, I don't believe will ever be truly healthy.

My sister had a similar aversion to hot dogs when she found out the brand mom bought had hog lips in the list of ingredients. Never bothered me, even when she would taunt me with "Hog lips! You're eating hog lips!"

I do like you & don't bug my daughter about being (or rather trying to be - she slips up a lot) a vegan. It's her choice.

No, I never chose that particular quick fix, but I recognize the behavior pattern since I've received a lot of mental health treatment, and learning to recognize it in myself makes it easier to also recognize it in others. You sort of back up and think "wait, what's REALLY going on here?"

I always laugh when people freak out over the fact their meat contains meat. People eat the WHOLE critter, not just muscle meat. Man... I wish they'd teach stuff like that to kids because most people are so stupid about where their food comes from.

That's a great point: reminds me of all the vegetarians or vegans I've run across, who are always snacking or keeping stuff in their desks or otherwise constantly eating.

I agree that especially when you're younger, being vegan/vegetarian can be resistance to what seem to be the conventional ways. When I was in high school, right after I learned to drive, I announced to my family I was a vegetarian. So then I could get my special foods at a health store (I had a job to pay for it). I kept my yogurt and brewer's yeast in the family refrigerator and felt like I had a diet that wasn't the same as my family's. Even then I had an inkling it was fueled by rebellion and dealing with family turbulence. I still loved meat and missed it, I just wanted to prove I was different!

But then when I went to college I lived in a co-op that was strictly vegetarian. Lots of soy burgers (the mix came in big plastic cartons, anyone remember that?), soy cheese, granola, raisins, whole wheat bread and macaroni. I started having a lot of health problems, bad skin and especially fatigue and brain fog. I had no idea it could have been because of the vegetarian diet. As soon as I moved out of there I went back to eating meat and got better.

My concern is that when vegetarianism is propped up by virtue, feelings of doing the "right thing" (re animal rights, farming, etc.), and dogmatism, then it's harder to separate from it when it isn't really supporting your health and well-being.

haha that's awesome, I have a friend that was vegetarian back in the 90's and she had to change her diet bc she was allergic to wheat and gluten

Speaking of changing minds (or is the vegan diet a mind changing one?) there have been new studies on the mental effects of low-fat and protein diets. Tom Naughton has posted part two rebutting the climate change argument for vegetarian eating. So while sitting around the holiday table and your vegetarian relative acts crazy, you can bring up these new studies

http://www.fathead-movie.com/index....crazy-part-two/

Thing is, I totally understand their humanitarian stance. It is what led me to try it. But they are forging on without any regard to what the truth is.

That's the kind of idealism that gets people hurt.

I pass a little white car on my daily walks that has a bumper sticker that reads "I THINK - THEREFORE I'M VEGAN". I have been so tempted to print up a label to cover up the word "therefore" - and replace it with "MY BRAIN IS SHRINKING." I never acted on that thought - but maybe I passed on some vibes in that section of the neighborhood. When I went past that car yesterday the bumper sticker was pealed off.

Jey Thanks for this link. I love it, "a vegetarian diet will make you sick and crazy"
Very entertaining article and the comments too!!

Ken, You just made me laugh by head off "MY BRAIN IS SHRINKING." I love how we get these thoughts to amuse ourselves but that's as far as it goes....been there for sure.
Somebody took the sticker off, so you weren't the only one.

I actually believe in climate change, just throwing that out there.
It makes some of the great mr Naughton's posts grate (whoah, rhyme there...), and I wish he would get back to posting that on a separate blog like he used to.

If she's willing to consider the treatment the animals get, she's smarter than a lot of other ethical vegans.

One of my daughters has just turned vegetarian and is seriously looking into veganism - she's not been eating meat now for a few weeks and for whatever reason is piling on the pounds?! But she's a grown up and can make her own choices - we just laugh and make fun of each others weird eating habits lol

Jo xxx

The way Volek, Phinney and Westman put it in The New Atkins for a New You is that vegetable protein is packaged with carbs. You have to know what you're doing (or have insane beginner's luck, I guess) to make a vegetarian diet also low carb. Now low fat, I'll grant you. That wouldn't be so hard. And we all know the theory. I'd hazard a guess she might be insulin resistant?