Hi all,

I have been having long-term health issues with candida/hormonal issues/IBS etc and I have developed a distrust for doctors over time.... So I read a lot and I am always looking after my health, well at least I thought so, I have tried ome diets that left me feeling worn out.

The problem is, these things take so much time and effort and sometimes it is depressing and I lose faith.

I carry a lot of 'bulk' around my stomach and waist still, and I read that stubborn areas of fat in the stomach can affect hormonal profile so after a few years of dieting (I am at my ideal weight) but with the bulk not leaving my stomach I decided to look into a laser/ultrasound liposuction service.

The lady consulting about the treatment told me I wasn't fat enough and humiliated me by making me repeat after her that I have a beautiful body. She She said everyone had a different body shape and that clearly i just need a book with affirmations. She didn't know anything about me and I felt so low and unconfident after seeing her.

I am not sure whether what she is saying is true (well she would have sold me the treatment if I was 'fat enough') but I don't believe people are meant to be thin but then big around the waist. I don't think it could be all 'muscle and skin' like she said, because muscle and skin is firm, whereas I look like a few months pregnant all the time. I am thinking I must still be bloated and it has just become a permanent shape.

I am wondering, have other people gone through a similar situation where you are trying so hard to make progress on your goals, still can't get there, but then on top you have people trying to tell you you are already thin, got an ED, just need ome affirmations etc? I really felt humiliated. I know I shouldn't be o sensitive though.

I should add btw, I have very erratic and often very long hormonal cycles already and i have had some serious things happen that doctors have shrugged their shoulders at. Most health professionals indicate that i am 'weak' and some personal trainers and naturopaths have tried to bully me so i didn't go back. I'm not just 'making things up'. I often feel like some sort of nervous hypochondriac, but the symptoms I have are very real. I am quite sensitive to criticism but I am always trying to do my best to get well.

Welcome, Luv2Read

I read your intro, it sounds like you've had a pretty rough time getting to this WOE!! I was vegetarian myself for a few years (vegan for 1) and I think that is what "broke" my metabolism. As far as your menstrual cycles go you may have a slight hormonal imbalance due to some insulin issues, you say you've already had some improvement with that so it looks like you are moving in the right direction. High insulin levels will wreak havoc on all the hormonal systems in the body, especially female sex hormones (the one common marker of PCOS is excess insulin). Give LC'ing a fair amount of time to notice more improvements. (I had most symptoms of PCOS myself, they were gone after about 6 months of strict LC'ing.)

OK, so this was me. Hence the veggie/vegan diets... I even did extensive juice fasting, colon cleansing, and was a fruitarian for a few months, all because I thought was best for my health. Many who switch to LC find improvement in their IBS/candida symptoms, I hope you do too

I urge you to hang in there before turning to altering your body surgically. I know it's very very difficult when you feel bad about yourself, but improving your physical health will make you feel so much better and can help with that issue a lot!

I apologize that I have no real advice for you but a couple of items, and a touch of TMI, that are "food for thought":

I was looking at your height vs weight and I'm wondering if you are experiencing bloat akin to the big bellies seen on "starving" people. That type of bloat is brought on by mal- and/or under-nourishment.

At your weight you may only have 19% to 21% body fat. This amount is normally associated with female athletes. This is also why the consultant refused you treatment.

You've said you are 'delicate'. I don't doubt that. When I try to exercise my upper torso using anything other than push-ups, I got sheering pains in my arms and chest/neck/upper back. This occurred even when I weighed only 128 lbs.

Even at my lowest weight ever, and doing 80 sit-ups and 50 push-ups a day I was never able to get rid of my "pregnant" belly. There may be some genetic component involved as well.

My cycles were long as well; extremely heavy (two super-tampons AND two super-pads covering front to back [this was before Depends were available] changed every two hours during the first two days] and very excruciating at the beginning (I passed out from pain at work one time. The staff called for an ambulance because my slacks were covered in blood... I was extremely embarrassed.)

I'm sorry I have no advice for you except to keep pursuing whatever leads you come across.

Added Note: The bolded part is because we all have been "programmed" to believe what is "normal". This to let you know that I have no idea what is normal for you. Blessings to you.

Its nice to hear from other people who can understand a little the frustrations and embarrassments that come with trying to battle body issues.

I agree with you katoman that I don't need to lose weight. In fact, I put my goal weight as 120 because I remember being happy at that weight when I was a teenager, but really I think my current weight is fine. I would just like to correct the distribution.

If the specialist says I don't have enough fat to treat with the laser liposuction service then she must be right, although I hated being made to repeat phrases after her, it made me feel so uncomfortable. I guess I do have a bit of a body image thing, but its only because I have never made any progress on the stomach.

Like you mfish I tried some juice fasting (I did a two week fast). I did colon cleansing (it gave me nausea) and I was a fruit and vegetable only -atarian for a while.

Katoman, you say that you were doing situps etc and you could never flatten your tummy. It could have a genetic component like you suggest. I just find it hard to believe that a natural, healthy human should be any shape other than the one that we find most appealing. We have inbuilt senses to identify healthy, toned looking people, and we are normally turned off by a larger middle and smaller everywhere else.

This may not totally be applicable but I have some insights on the big belly in men.

There are some men I know who I would call "skinny fat". They are thin up top but have gut. According to BMI measures they are "idea" weight. The real issue is that have too much body fat, and not enough muscle. Men tend to carry muscle in the chest and arms, and to carry fat in the gut. Changing the ratio of fat to muscle changes that shape, but not necessarily the weight.

I also know men who are muscley fat. The are big and huge in the chest and also have big guts.

Usually when people go on calorie restricted diets they loose both fat and muscle, so maybe that is why your tummy never changed shape relative to the rest of your body?

My guess is that going low carb, and doing resistance exercise might help.

Luv2Read, you mentioned that you have IBS symptoms. Often people who have "IBS" really are gluten-intolerant or celiac, and they have a bloated "wheat belly". Dr. Davis has talked about this extensively on his blog. Google "wheat belly Davis" and you should find some of the relevant posts. Have you tried going gluten-free? Often this can eliminate the bloated stomach.

--Melissa

Hi! Great idea, yes, I tried this, but no it didn't work. I haven't eaten much wheat in about 3 years now. I even went raw for a a couple of years and only ate fruits and veggies and nuts, no grains at all, but my tummy was still the same shape. Its not round and tight like I would expect in a malnourished person... it looks a bit floppy and flabby to me, which is why I can't understand why she said there isn't enough fat for a treatment. I lost a lot of muscle when I was dieting the low fat way, so I still think I have a pocket of fat there and my metabolism is too low to get rid of it. I'm not sure.

But yes, I think it is definitely a good idea to cut out wheat and other gluten grains if having gut IBS symptoms.

There is a difference between cutting out grains and going completely gluten-free. Being gluten-free is more work since gluten is in many condiments and other foods where you wouldn't expect it. It's also on any kitchen items that you used in the past, like cutting boards, pots and pans, etc. If you haven't done this, then you haven't actually been truly gluten-free. Just curious.

--Melissa

Luv2Read, your situation interests me although I can't help with personal experience having never had issues like yours (mine have always been the super overweight muscular kind)

What exactly are you eating now?

Wasted musculature and an "insulin tummy" are things I have seen in vegans and followers of other plant-based plans.

If you are having excess protein or protein from soy or refined plants, I can see where that might cause problems. I think of it as the "Atkins problem" where people get down to a certain level and then can't lose the spare tire. Personally i think it has to do with *how* people do Atkins and perhaps having protein in such a way that insulin is still stuck on high. Or having protein that has estrogenic effects like soy.

But if you are having eggs then never mind. Eggs generate low insulin and don't have the issues that soy does.

Hi Melissa, I don't eat condiments and things since I went raw. Going 100% raw makes you eat very simply.... even when you stop.

My current diet, now that I am no longer a raw foodist (I stopped that 2 months ago) would be as follows (Australian winter menu)

breakfast: omelet with 4 eggs and sour cream, either with some ham or some hard cheese, sometimes some mushrooms

lunch: protein and fat with green salad, never consume any kind of commercial dressings, just green leaves in my salad. Today I had liver stroganoff (liver fried in lard with a bit of tomato paste and a dollop of sour cream) with a green salad. That kept me full until dinner, but sometimes for a snack I'll eat some macadamia nuts or some walnuts, but usually as a snack I'll eat a couple of raw tomatoes or a raw cucumber or capsicum (I eat them like apples).

Dinner: I am a big fan of home-made bone broth soup. I had some rich beef broth thickened up with various marrow bones for gelatin. It was very solid when I took it out of the fridge!! I make the best stocks :-) With that I had boiled beef, dried mushrooms, indian spices, flax seeds (I soak the flax seeds in the soup).

Then for dessert I had a small avocado.

I've been eating low carbs for a while so its quite natural for me, but I've only recently started eating meat so that side of things is a bit new.

I haven't eaten soy in a few years, it is really not good for anyone.

Maybe now that I'm doing atkins I'll lose the tummy. My husband eats basically cheese, fat, meat, bread and maybe a tomato or something LOL. When I was raw food vegan we never ate together as we shared not a thing on our plates!!! But he has a flat tummy and almost never gets sick. I ended up with adrenal fatigue/chronic fatigue type symptoms in the end so I stopped for that reason. I came to the conclusion that it wasn't working for me even though I hoped it would.

I've had the tummy since forever though, but then from ages 18-26 I had IBS and candida and went from doctor to doctor without any help. It wasn't until 3 years ago (I'm now 29) that I knew anything about how to fix it. Now I know its all sugar related!!!!

I disagree. What we tend to find most appealing is what we are sold in the media...and that is thin rail and NOT realistic. If you look back in history what you will find is that women were curvacious...large hips, chests, bellies...because women are built to have children....and historically these curvacious women were revered. It wasn't until VERY recent modern times that it was <expected> that women should be rail thin. But it is still not realistic. Just because our times dictate that women should be thin doesn't make it so - even if all the tv shows and ads use all these rail thin women.

And then during medieval times someone invented a corset and women have had to be small in the middle ever since!

Going raw vegan might also have issues that would cause bloat. I've got sensitivities to a number of raw veggies, nuts, seeds. I do much better with cooked veggies, but they bloat me up a little. I eat enough raw veg and I'll end up running to the potty 6 times a day.... or more.

I'd suggest trying a meat fast and seeing if your stomach goes down. Even just a few days might be all it takes to see improvement.