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  #1   ^
Old Tue, May-22-12, 10:50
Amanda1978 Amanda1978 is offline
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Plan: Non Specific - Just LC
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Default ‘Treatment of obesity is a failure,’ doctors argue

‘Treatment of obesity is a failure,’ doctors argue

Quote:
Harping on people ad nauseam to lose weight is rather “sadistic,” there’s little evidence the treatment of obesity works and even the benefits of weight loss are debatable.

In arguments like these, being played out in the official journal of the College of Family Physicians of Canada, doctors are debating whether it’s futile to try to treat obesity.

“The few patients who manage to lose weight and keep it off achieve something truly remarkable. From a public health standpoint, however, the treatment of obesity is a failure,” writes Dr. Jana Havrankova, of Clinique familiale Saint-Lambert in Quebec, in the current edition of Canadian Family Physician.

One weight-loss drug after another has been pulled off the market over serious harms and the long-term effects of existing treatments remain controversial, adds associate scientific editor Dr. Roger Ladouceur in an accompanying editorial.

“Why, then, do we tell our patients to lose weight?” he asks.

“Why do we repeat, ‘You should lose weight’? What’s with that? Somewhat sadistic, don’t you think? Do we do this as a way of shifting the guilt and transferring the responsibility of the therapeutic failure?”

The statements, observers say, reflect a remarkable and possibly significant shift away from the prevailing medical dogma that everyone who is obese needs to lose weight.

No one is claiming obesity is harmless. Havrankova says the evidence of obesity’s health-damaging effects is “irrefutable” and the costs to society and individuals “astronomical.”

Yet, “there is very little evidence that the treatment of obesity works,” Havrankova said. Of the studies done, most are of mediocre quality and, for the small percentage of patients who succeed, the weight loss is modest, and gradually regained over time.

“For every individual who wants to lose weight, I maintain hope,” Havrankova stressed.


But prevention, starting in early childhood, “offers the best hope in the fight against obesity,” she said.

In his editorial, “Should we stop telling obese patients to lose weight?”, Ladouceur says the genetic, environmental and societal factors linked to obesity are “deeply rooted” within us. “It is very difficult for us to change.”

Given that, he asks, “Shouldn’t we put a stop to this preoccupation with our patient’s weight” and simply encourage healthy lifestyle habits, including a balanced diet and exercise, “even if it is simply walking?”

The debate reflects a “clear departure” from the message patients typically hear, said Dr. Arya Sharma, professor of medicine and chair in obesity research and management at the University of Alberta, and scientific director of the Canadian Obesity Network.

“It’s moving to a point where we are becoming much more realistic — simply telling people to lose weight and leaving them pretty much up to their own resources is not the way to go,” he said.

“We have to be much more reflective: For whom is there really likely to be a benefit?”

Sharma’s group says that any discussion about weight must begin with the doctor first asking the patient’s permission. It’s one of the cornerstones of a new roadmap for doctors the network is launching Tuesday. Called the “5 A’s of obesity management” — ask, assess, advise, agree, assist — the checklist is designed to help doctors and other health-care workers broach the subject in a sensitive and non-judgmental manner.

Today in Canada, overweight and obesity are the new norm. There are more overweight Canadians than there are those of “normal” weight.

Currently, 59 per cent of adult Canadians are either overweight or obese. Unless trends change, by 2026 the proportion will reach 70 per cent, according to estimates presented in March at a federal-provincial summit on the issue.

At any given time, 36 per cent of the population is trying to lose weight.

But, according to a review article published in the same edition of the journal, people in the “high-normal” or overweight range have the lowest mortality, or risk of dying.

“In terms of your chances of dying related to your weight, your best bet is to be slightly overweight,” said the study’s author, Dr. John Bosomworth, an honorary lecturer in the department of family medicine at the University of B.C. in Vancouver and a retired family physician.

People whose weight remains stable at any level throughout adult life also tend to have a lower risk of dying, he said.

He cautions that most of the studies are observational — meaning researchers simply followed large populations over time, looking at who gained weight, lost weight or stayed the same. They don’t prove cause and effect.

But evidence is mounting that a significant proportion of overweight people are metabolically healthy and that the risks associated with obesity require a more sophisticated approach.

“We don’t seem to have to beat ourselves up about being overweight in terms of our health unless we have a health-related problem, such as diabetes or heart disease,” Bosomworth said.

Among the obese — meaning those with a body mass index of 30 or more — about 80 per cent have a weight-related health problem. In those cases, “you have an argument that perhaps weight loss, if you could ever achieve it, might be a good thing,” Bosomworth said.

“But there’s also the argument — why are you aiming for weight loss, since nobody’s succeeding anyway? What’s important is physical and metabolic fitness — and that can happen without weight loss.

“Maybe we should be giving them a pedometer and say, ‘Why don’t you increase your number of steps by 2,000 over the next two weeks every day, bring it back and show me what you’ve done,’ and not worry about the weight.”

In a counter-argument, Dr. Dominique Garrel, of Université de Montréal in Quebec, argues that obesity “must be treated” given the consequences of excess weight. People can improve their health considerably, he said, by losing even five to 10 per cent of their weight.

Garrel said surgery “is very popular and increasingly simple and safe” and suggested patients be referred to specialized teams of nutritionists, psychologists and kinesiologists.

He acknowledged that the $2,000 to $3,000 cost of such care might represent an “insurmountable barrier” for some patients.

“If this is the case the patient can be referred to an organization in the community such as Weight Watchers or Choisir de maigrir.”

In her rebuttal, Havrankova asks “where are these teams” and, “most important, what results do they achieve?”

“If there were ‘simple’ and effective ways to treat obese patients,” she said, “we would know it.”
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  #2   ^
Old Tue, May-22-12, 10:58
Amanda1978 Amanda1978 is offline
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Posts: 820
 
Plan: Non Specific - Just LC
Stats: 188/163/130 Female 5'4"
BF:46.65%/37.7%/23%
Progress: 43%
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
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Quote:
“We don’t seem to have to beat ourselves up about being overweight in terms of our health unless we have a health-related problem, such as diabetes or heart disease,” Bosomworth said.


This makes me mad. Why should people wait until they have a disease to do something about it? It's like telling my 6 year old who is at home sick because of her asthma that we'll just stop trying to prevent attacks and when they aren't too bad we won't give you any meds, we'll just bring you to the hospital when you are turning blue.

Quote:
“If there were ‘simple’ and effective ways to treat obese patients,” she said, “we would know it.”


We do know it but too many people and governments are too hard headed to admit they are doing the wrong things!
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, May-22-12, 11:06
Amanda1978 Amanda1978 is offline
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Posts: 820
 
Plan: Non Specific - Just LC
Stats: 188/163/130 Female 5'4"
BF:46.65%/37.7%/23%
Progress: 43%
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Default

Sorry, just wanted to add this site: http://www.drsharma.ca/

I've read a bunch of stuff on his site other times and although he doesn't really seem to say much in the way of what to eat or not eat, he has some interesting perspectives on obeisity, different treatments, news articles and living healthy. I don't agree with all of it but some stuff is good. I like some of this info below.

Quote:
Obesity is a Chronic Condition: Obesity is a chronic and often progressive condition not unlike diabetes or hypertension. Successful obesity management requires realistic and sustainable treatment strategies. Short-term “quick-fix” solutions focusing on maximizing weight loss are generally unsustainable and therefore associated with high rates of weight regain.

Obesity Management is About Improving Health and Well-being, and not Simply Reducing Numbers on the Scale: The success of obesity management should be measured in improvements in health and well-being rather than in the amount of weight lost. For many patients, even modest reductions in body weight can lead to significant improvements in health and well-being.

Early Intervention Means Addressing Root Causes and Removing Roadblocks: Successful obesity management requires identifying and addressing both the ‘root causes’ of weight gain as well as the barriers to weight management. Weight gain may result from a reduction in metabolic rate, overeating, or reduced physical activity secondary to biological, psychological or socioeconomic factors. Many of these factors also pose significant barriers to weight management.

Success is Different for Every Individual: Patients vary considerably in their readiness and capacity for weight management. ‘Success’ can be defined as better quality-of-life, greater self-esteem, higher energy levels, improved overall health, prevention of further weight gain, modest (5%) weight loss, or maintenance of the patient’s ‘best’ weight.

A Patient’s ‘Best’ Weight May Never be an ‘Ideal’ Weight: An ‘ideal’ weight or BMI is not a realistic goal for many patients with obesity, and setting unachievable targets simply sets up patients for failure. Instead, help patients set weight targets based on the ‘best’ weight they can sustain while still enjoying their life and reaping the beneits of improved health.
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, May-22-12, 14:14
KarenJ's Avatar
KarenJ KarenJ is offline
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Plan: tasty animals with butter
Stats: 170/115/110 Female 60"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanda1978

We do know it but too many people and governments are too hard headed to admit they are doing the wrong things!


Quite true. They've been doling out the wrong advice for way too long.
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, May-22-12, 14:21
ICDogg's Avatar
ICDogg ICDogg is offline
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Plan: Low carb, high fat keto
Stats: 310/212/183 Male 6'0"
BF:D
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Well, they're raising the right questions, anyway. Whether or not they have the right answers, is TBD...
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  #6   ^
Old Tue, May-22-12, 15:34
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kindke kindke is offline
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The reason obesity research has been such an epic failure up until now is because 99% of researchers are operating with the false premise that "calories in calories out" is correct.
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, May-23-12, 07:19
Altari Altari is offline
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Plan: Meats & Veggies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ICDogg
Well, they're raising the right questions, anyway. Whether or not they have the right answers, is TBD...

Exactly. This is a step in the right direction. If care providers stop focusing on the weight (which we all "know" is caused by too many calories :lol and begin focusing on the metabolic problems, maybe the mountains of studies about the dietary causes of these diseases will come to light. And then maybe people will just begin to lose weight as a side benefit.
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  #8   ^
Old Thu, May-24-12, 05:38
leemack's Avatar
leemack leemack is offline
NEVER GIVING UP!
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Plan: no sugar/grains LCHF IF
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Indeed. once the medical establishment gets its head around the fact that it is not being obese that causes the health problems, but rather poor diet (processed foods, sugars, grains, seed oils) causes the health problems and obesity, then health care in general might improve. Modern processed rubbish is associated with so much illness, it really needs to be understood that obesity is just another illness, and not the big bad monster cause.

Telling people to lose weight (especially by lowering calories) in order to get healthy is a bit like telling someone who has water dripping from the ceiling and a wet floor to put a bucket underneath to solve the problem. Eventually the bucket fills up and the overflows. The cause of the leak needs to be found and fixed, and then the floor mopped up. Just like the cause of the obesity needs to be found and treated first. But it also needs to be acknowledged that for some, the illness of obesity may be so far advanced, that even though weight can be stabilised, and even a little lost - not everyone can turn back the clock on their metabolic damage and become slim again.

Once all of these things become accepted as common knowledge, then maybe the stigma, prejudice and discrimination would diminish.

Lee
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  #9   ^
Old Thu, May-24-12, 06:59
Amanda1978 Amanda1978 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 820
 
Plan: Non Specific - Just LC
Stats: 188/163/130 Female 5'4"
BF:46.65%/37.7%/23%
Progress: 43%
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
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I really like the fact that they are trying to push a goal of getting healthy and feeling better instead of a number on the scale. It is a much easier goal to achieve and I believe if you really pay attention all the improvements in your health, write them down so you don't forget, then you can use this as a good motivation to maintain your healthy WOE. I also believe, that you should get yourself healthy, and then the weight loss will come naturally, much more easily and stay off.

BTW, my goal this year has been to eat and live healthy. The added lbs. I've gained by not eating healthy during holidays/vacations the last few years have been coming off slowly but the inches melted away much more quickly. So far my little theory has been working for me, and it's been much easier to keep myself motivated to eat the right foods.
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  #10   ^
Old Thu, May-24-12, 08:01
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Groggy60 Groggy60 is offline
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You would think they would look at what changed since when the population was not mostly fat.

Low fat diets, demonization of saturated fat, promotion of polyunsaturated fat, HFCS, huge soda pops, artificial sweeteners, Franken food, Franken wheat ...
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  #11   ^
Old Thu, May-24-12, 11:37
bike2work bike2work is offline
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Plan: Fung-inspired fasting
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Quote:
But prevention, starting in early childhood, “offers the best hope in the fight against obesity,” she said.
What she's saying here is do the same old thing (restrict fat and calories) but start it earlier in life.

I think that's a large part of why I'm morbidly obese today. Mom was an early adopter to this philosophy. I was started dieting at six years old. Even before that I was only allowed nonfat milk instead of regular milk. Mom always cooked low fat food, restricted meat and pushed fruit and grains. She always objected to my eating much meat. She would say, "Americans eat too much protein." There was no justification for it; it was just what she believed.

I didn't get fat on junk food or fast food or dessert. We were never allowed those things. Nutritionists would rejoice at the food I was fed as a child: lots of grains, complex carbohydrates, lots of fruit (including fresh fruit, juice and dried fruit), plenty of vegetables, a large glass of nonfat milk forced at every meal, not much meat and very little fat. I would get desperately hungry between meals and was usually not allowed to snack. On occasion, I could have a yellow apple in the afternoon. I think this most or all of the reason that grew up fat and I am morbidly obese now. It also got me into a habit of sneaking food and spending my whole allowance on candy. I was hungry all the time.
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  #12   ^
Old Thu, May-24-12, 16:52
leemack's Avatar
leemack leemack is offline
NEVER GIVING UP!
Posts: 5,030
 
Plan: no sugar/grains LCHF IF
Stats: 478/354/200 Female 5' 9"
BF:excessive!!
Progress: 45%
Location: UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bike2work
What she's saying here is do the same old thing (restrict fat and calories) but start it earlier in life.

I think that's a large part of why I'm morbidly obese today. Mom was an early adopter to this philosophy. I was started dieting at six years old. Even before that I was only allowed nonfat milk instead of regular milk. Mom always cooked low fat food, restricted meat and pushed fruit and grains. She always objected to my eating much meat. She would say, "Americans eat too much protein." There was no justification for it; it was just what she believed.

I didn't get fat on junk food or fast food or dessert. We were never allowed those things. Nutritionists would rejoice at the food I was fed as a child: lots of grains, complex carbohydrates, lots of fruit (including fresh fruit, juice and dried fruit), plenty of vegetables, a large glass of nonfat milk forced at every meal, not much meat and very little fat. I would get desperately hungry between meals and was usually not allowed to snack. On occasion, I could have a yellow apple in the afternoon. I think this most or all of the reason that grew up fat and I am morbidly obese now. It also got me into a habit of sneaking food and spending my whole allowance on candy. I was hungry all the time.


Totally agree. I had a similar experience with calorie control from stepmom starting age 9, despite us kids being skinny. Me and my brother sneaked food and binged and are both obese. My sister went in the other direction and decided she was going to control what she ate and became anorexic. I had no food issues before that regime. Controlling kids diets too strictly can backfire.

Lee
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