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  #1   ^
Old Wed, Jun-13-18, 09:03
SilverEm SilverEm is offline
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Posts: 1,020
 
Plan: VLC Pastoral
Stats: 137/136/136 Female 67"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Maintenance since 2001
Default Best books to give an elderly person, to stop statin drugs?

I would like to give a book or two to a very elderly friend, to show him that the statins are horrendously, murderously bad, and that it is better to stop taking them. In this case, I think books are better than a film, due to ease of reference, and perhaps to show a doctor or two.

I am considering the books, Statin Nation, by Justin Smith, and also the updated version of The Dark Side of Statins, by Duane Graveline.

Do these seem like the best choices? Or is another book better for an elderly person to read?

Thanks very much.
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  #2   ^
Old Wed, Jun-13-18, 12:58
rpavich's Avatar
rpavich rpavich is offline
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Posts: 741
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 282/262/205 Male 6' 1
BF:waaay tooo much
Progress: 26%
Location: West Virginia
Default

I guess that would depend on if statins really ARE "horrendously murderously bad" or not.

That's just one viewpoint among several.
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  #3   ^
Old Wed, Jun-13-18, 13:07
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
To Good Health!
Posts: 10,365
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

How about a meta-analysis on the subject?
This is a good one written by a number of cardiologists and David Diamond who has good accessible talks on statins and heart disease. Itís only focus was LDL-C, all the side effects now linked to statin use in the elderly is not addressed that I remember. Look back in this forum though, you may find them, like als, etc.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27292972
http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/6/e010401


I mention it because I just listened to an interview with Dr Eric Thorn who said donít bother to give your doctor a book..he doesnít have time to read it. A good study, peer-reviewed, published in a journal would have more impact.

David Diamond has given two lectures at The IHMC, can watch them on YouTube and other LC sites like DietDoctor. He also got embroiled in controversy after a podcast on heart disease and cholesterol, good links to his own sources.

http://psychology.usf.edu/faculty/d...amond/rebuttal/

Last edited by JEY100 : Wed, Jun-13-18 at 13:15.
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  #4   ^
Old Wed, Jun-13-18, 13:09
rpavich's Avatar
rpavich rpavich is offline
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Plan: Atkins
Stats: 282/262/205 Male 6' 1
BF:waaay tooo much
Progress: 26%
Location: West Virginia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
How about a meta-analysis on the subject?
This is a good one written by a number of cardiologists and David Diamond who has good accessible talks on statins and heart disease.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27292972

I mention it because I just listened to an interview with Dr Eric Thorn who said donít bother to give your doctor a book..he doesnít have time to read it. A good study, peer-reviewed, published in a journal would have more impact.

David Diamond has given two lectures at The IHMC, can watch them on YouTube and other LC sites like DietDoctor. He also got embroiled in controversy after a podcast on heart disease and cholesterol, good links to his own sources.

http://psychology.usf.edu/faculty/d...amond/rebuttal/


Thanks for the link..I'll read up.
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  #5   ^
Old Wed, Jun-13-18, 13:22
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
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Posts: 10,365
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

Added in an edit above...that analysis does not take account the side effects now linked to statins...muscle damage, joint pain, diabetes, and newer associations to ALS, Alzheimerís, Parkinsonís, neurological issues from lowering cholesterol, especially in the elderly. https://www.scientificamerican.com/...art-medication/
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, Jun-13-18, 13:22
s93uv3h's Avatar
s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
 
Plan: Atkins & IF
Stats: 000/014.5/015 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 97%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
How about a meta-analysis on the subject?
This is a good one written by a number of cardiologists and David Diamond who has good accessible talks on statins and heart disease. Itís only focus was LDL-C, all the side effects now linked to statin use in the elderly is not addressed that I remember. Look back in this forum though, you may find them, like als, etc.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27292972
http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/6/e010401


I mention it because I just listened to an interview with Dr Eric Thorn who said donít bother to give your doctor a book..he doesnít have time to read it. A good study, peer-reviewed, published in a journal would have more impact.

David Diamond has given two lectures at The IHMC, can watch them on YouTube and other LC sites like DietDoctor. He also got embroiled in controversy after a podcast on heart disease and cholesterol, good links to his own sources.

http://psychology.usf.edu/faculty/d...amond/rebuttal/
Excellent.
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Jun-13-18, 13:26
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 2,364
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100

I mention it because I just listened to an interview with Dr Eric Thorn who said donít bother to give your doctor a book..he doesnít have time to read it. A good study, peer-reviewed, published in a journal would have more impact.

Janet, do you have a link to the interview with Dr. Thorn? I saw him about 18 months ago, and I'd be interested in what he has to say. Thanks!
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, Jun-13-18, 13:33
SilverEm SilverEm is offline
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Plan: VLC Pastoral
Stats: 137/136/136 Female 67"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Maintenance since 2001
Default

Janet, thanks very much for the links. The article at Scientific American is about Duane Graveline.

I will likely print some of his articles from his site SpaceDoc, too. Here is the link to his site:
https://spacedoc.com

I guess his family is maintaining the site, to help others, and in honor of Dr. Graveline.

The symptoms which Dr. Graveline developed are happening to others.
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  #9   ^
Old Wed, Jun-13-18, 13:58
rpavich's Avatar
rpavich rpavich is offline
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Posts: 741
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 282/262/205 Male 6' 1
BF:waaay tooo much
Progress: 26%
Location: West Virginia
Default

Well...this is concerning.

My wife takes Lipitor and shows every side effect for crying out loud.

It appears that the risks and side effects outweigh the benefits if there are any benefits.

We are definitely stopping these immediately.
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  #10   ^
Old Wed, Jun-13-18, 16:39
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
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Posts: 10,365
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
Janet, do you have a link to the interview with Dr. Thorn? I saw him about 18 months ago, and I'd be interested in what he has to say. Thanks!



Hi Rob, Dr. Thorn just talks away about various subjects in these two Adapt Your Life videos, especially how to speak with your doctor about LC.

https://www.facebook.com/AdaptYourL...02315873344304/ (phone dies )
https://www.facebook.com/AdaptYourL...02339313341960/
(obvious his first time on FB Live :lol

A good friend who lives in DC near the Zoo has come down to Duke a few times...I have suggested she go out to meet with him to have a doctor somewhat more local. She hasn't done that yet, drives me crazy.
I have known about him a few years (maybe Jimmy Moore was the first interview??) but he always seemed a good LC doctor in the DC area who is in a cardiology practice.
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  #11   ^
Old Wed, Jun-13-18, 16:51
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/218/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
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Location: Massachusetts
Default

There is a doctor on utube that debunks the science behind the advertising....it is all a numbers game showing statins are effective.

Like 99% vs 98% between the meds and do nothing! I'll pass on the side effects and the cost ,thank you.

Aunt Em--I realize format is important to readers, and many prefer a book. The utube version is free and well presented.
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  #12   ^
Old Wed, Jun-13-18, 16:54
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
To Good Health!
Posts: 10,365
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rpavich
Well...this is concerning.

My wife takes Lipitor and shows every side effect for crying out loud.

It appears that the risks and side effects outweigh the benefits if there are any benefits.

We are definitely stopping these immediately.


Please don't make serious medical decisions just by reading crazy people on the internet (that would be me!). But this sub-forum does have many good articles on the validity of cholesterol lipid levels to heart disease, reported side effects of statins, cholesterol related to mortality for women, especially those over 60, etc. http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=466506

In fact the second video of Dr. Eric Thorn above, he gives reasons, as a low carb doctor, when he would prescribe statins.

Also consider having a Coronary Artery Score before making major changes.
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=471526
My DH and I were reassured by doing that test to resist his doctor in particular, who wanted to prescribe statins just because he was "an old guy".

It is a complex issue that should be discused with your doctor.
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  #13   ^
Old Wed, Jun-13-18, 16:56
rpavich's Avatar
rpavich rpavich is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 741
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 282/262/205 Male 6' 1
BF:waaay tooo much
Progress: 26%
Location: West Virginia
Default

Understood
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  #14   ^
Old Thu, Jun-14-18, 06:59
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 2,364
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Janet, thanks for the links to Dr. Thorn's talks. As mentioned, I saw him about 18-24 months ago as a patient to get a better interpretation of my NMR Lipid Panel, as my long-time PCP was not able to completely understand the test results. Good guy. He started weaning me from HBP medications, and put my test results in perspective. For anyone in Northern VA who is low carb and wants a good physician, I would recommend Dr. Thorn. He and his nurse are particularly effective for people just getting their feet wet in LC and who have typical metabolic syndrome symptoms of obesity, DMII, etc. For those of us who understand the approach, he's a great sounding board for fine tuning to optimize health.
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  #15   ^
Old Thu, Jun-14-18, 07:15
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
To Good Health!
Posts: 10,365
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

Rob, Thanks for your review of Dr. Thorn A good intro to his philosophy on food, lifestyle and meds right in these videos. The Adapt videos aren't very professional, but they are "real"
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