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  #1   ^
Old Fri, Jan-25-02, 18:17
silence silence is offline
Pending Member
Posts: 48
 
Plan: atkins (was on sommersize)
Stats: 145/153/120
BF:
Progress: -32%
Location: canada, edmonton
Default confused and scared to eat fat.

i have read the posts on fat and found them very interesting, but my experience has been very mixed.

at first, i lost wieght and then it went up and over my weight before dieting.

i ate enough fat back then, i loved to eat cheese with mayonaise as dip.... (still love it)

i stopped that and my mom tells me i still shouldnt eat that much fat.

so now i grill all my food with the forman grill, to let all the oil drip out. and then put them on paper towel to absorb all the extra oil.....

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  #2   ^
Old Fri, Jan-25-02, 20:31
Andy Davies Andy Davies is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,212
 
Plan: My own (based on a compil
Stats: 333/260/224 Male 73 ins
BF:
Progress: 67%
Location: Hampshire, England
Default

Hi Silence, and firstly welcome to the Active lowcarber forum.

I understand how confusing it is to hear that fat is OK to eat, when all your life you have been indoctrinated to believe that fat is bad and unsafe to eat, and will make you fat, as well as give you other health problems.

Initially, it will have to be an act of faith that you are not doing something dangerous, and harmful to your health. But there is a lot of supporting evidence which you can look up to back up what we say. I have two really important things to say to you in a moment, but first of all look around the forum at the amount of weight people have lost on this way of eating. In my own case, I have lost more than 70 pounds. It really works!

And now for the important statements:

(1) In the absence of carbohydrates, fat is not fattening . This is really important to understand. Fat will be fattening, if you are eating more than about 40 grams of carbohydrate per day. So you have to eliminate virtually all carbs from your diet. Then you can safely eat fat, without putting on weight.

(2) Eating fat does not make you fat. In fact, the reverse is true. It is the fat in your diet which attacks and disposes of your body fat. It is also fat that stops you feeling hungry. But in eating fat, you need to do two other very important things. Firstly, drink vast amounts of water. Some people here drink 5 litres of it per day. Secondly, you have to eat enough calories, or else the system fails. "Enough" calories is usually 10-12 times your current body weight. This is very important, and something many people do wrong, especially newcomers, who have been told all their lives that to lose weight you have to eat less. This, as you have probably already found out yourself, does not work, because you can eat very little, and still gain weight - if what you are eating is carbohydrates.

OK, I can talk all night about theory. Be brave enough to do this experiment. Try it out for just one week. In that time, cut down all your carbohydrates to just 20 or 30 grams per day (and that is very little indeed). Eat unrestricted protein and fat. Then tell me after a week how your weight compares and how you feel. Better still, get all the tests done first: cholesterol, triglycerides, etc etc. And then get them re-tested after say 3 months. The results should convince you that this way of eating is safe and beneficial.

And tell your mother that if your results prove she is right, you will heed her advice, but for now you want to test out this way of eating and see if it works for you - after all her advice has not made you slim,has it?

Andy
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  #3   ^
Old Sat, Jan-26-02, 07:17
SlimShAdY's Avatar
SlimShAdY SlimShAdY is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 986
 
Plan: Atkins for now.
Stats: 135/?/115? Female Short. 5"3
BF:Don't wanna know.
Progress: 15%
Location: RI
Default

it is really confusing..lol I'm still scared to eat it...But think about it this way....When you wern't eating fat did you lose weight?..
I'm guessing not...and you were probley eating alot of carbs...Think about it..lol

Hey, if your still scared your gonna gain weight...Do what I do, weigh yourself everyday just to make sure the scale isn't going up..lol...It wont, as long as ya do it in the morning before any food or waters in you..lol
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  #4   ^
Old Sat, Jan-26-02, 07:42
lauraW's Avatar
lauraW lauraW is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 245
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 206.0/196.5/140
BF:
Progress: 14%
Location: Seattle
Default Andy's Post

Hi Andy...

What a post that was...ty for all the info. Sometimes the stuff in the book can be confusing..you just kind of laid it all out there for us all...

Thank you very much..

Laura
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  #5   ^
Old Sat, Jan-26-02, 15:55
Andy Davies Andy Davies is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,212
 
Plan: My own (based on a compil
Stats: 333/260/224 Male 73 ins
BF:
Progress: 67%
Location: Hampshire, England
Default

Hi Laura,

Well, it did feel rather like giving birth to an elephant, but you're welcome. And I'm glad you found it useful.

Andy
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  #6   ^
Old Sun, Jan-27-02, 05:52
LC Sponge LC Sponge is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,160
 
Plan: Atkins Maintenance
Stats: //2002
BF:and feeling great
Progress: 99%
Location: Ontario, along the Rideau
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Andy Davies
Well, it did feel rather like giving birth to an elephant
I believe we have another Ernest Hemmingway in our midst.
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  #7   ^
Old Sun, Jan-27-02, 09:01
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
Forum Founder
Posts: 35,654
 
Plan: DANDR '92
Stats: 236/182/140 Female 165 cm
BF:
Progress: 56%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Andy Davies

Well, it did feel rather like giving birth to an elephant, but you're welcome.
OUCH!!



Doreen
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  #8   ^
Old Sun, Jan-27-02, 09:56
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
Forum Founder
Posts: 35,654
 
Plan: DANDR '92
Stats: 236/182/140 Female 165 cm
BF:
Progress: 56%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
Exclamation Why eating fat does NOT make you fat with low-carbing

Actually, to take the fact one step further (it's no theory .. this is firmly established in science and FACT ) .. it is the absence of INSULIN that makes this possible.

Insulin is required to assist glucose to enter the cells to be used for fuel. If there's more glucose than is required at the moment, then insulin will cause it to be stored as FAT. It will also cause any excess fat from the diet to be stored as fat, since it's not required as fuel (there's already too much glucose). Another role of insulin is to inhibit fat-burning. It prevents the fat cells from releasing their fat stores (both as a biological "conservation" mechanism, and to prevent the fat from competing with glucose as a fuel source).

When you restrict carbohydrates in your diet, you effectively reduce the amount of insulin produced, as your body switches over to burning ketones for fuel instead of glucose. Without so much insulin floating around, your fat cells will be able to release stored fat more easily. Without so much insulin floating around, the fat you EAT will not be stored as fat either.

So what happens to the fat you eat?? Well, some will be used in the repair and structure of cell walls throughout the body, and to make vital hormones. Some may used for energy. The rest is WASTED. That's right, wasted. The fat you eat is broken down into fatty acids in the bowel, by the action of enzymes and bile. These fatty acids are absorbed into the bloodstream and taken to the liver, where they are further processed ... into ketones, and into other fatty acid components. Some of the ketones may be used for fuel. Mostly they are excreted in the urine, stool and breath (via the lungs). Unused free fatty acid components are also excreted. Why?? Because once fatty acids are broken down into the smaller ketone, acetone and fatty esterols .. they CANNOT be converted back into fat. That's basic Biochemistry 101. Without insulin, they cannot be forced into storage in the fat cells. So they are eliminated. This is what Atkins refers to as the "Metabolic Advantage".

My explanation is very simplistic .. there's more involved, such as the release of glucagon from the pancreas, etc ... If you're truly curious about this, we had an excellent discussion a few months ago on this subject. You can read about it starting here .. it's a long thread, with lots of lofty discussion

What does this have to do with calories and eating fat? Well, when you're wasting fat, you're wasting the potential energy (ie the calories) that it would otherwise provide. Lets look at a sample day's intake:
  • 20g carbs (80 calories)
    120g protein (480 calories)
    120g fat (1080 calories)
    total calories = 1660, and 65% of that is fat calories.
However, research shows that by the process of wasting fatty acids, as I described above .. the actual caloric contribution of dietary fat, in the absence of insulin is only about half, or roughly 5 calories per gram. Given that knowledge, lets have another look at the sample day's intake:
  • 20g carbs (80 calories)
    120g protein (480 calories)
    120g fat (approx. 600 calories)
    total calories = 1180, of which 51% comes from fat.
There is plenty of evidence to show that consistently eating below a certain caloric level will result in the slowing of the metabolic rate, as an adaptive "survival" mecanism. The body thinks it's starving, so it turns the thermostat down to conserve fuel. Your engines will run on less and less. In other words the less you eat on a continual basis, the less you will NEED on a permanent basis. This will only work against you in the long run, making it increasingly difficult to lose fat weight, and also making it easier to GAIN fat if you return to a carbohydrate & insulin-based way of eating. So eat up, and especially eat FAT

The other question is how does eating fat stimulate the burning of BODY fat?? Well, it acts like kindling. It primes the liver into fat-burning and ketone-production mode. Once this ketone production is in full swing, and the dietary fat is used up, the liver starts looking for more source of fat to process. It turns to your body fat stores .

Hope this is helpful,

Doreen
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  #9   ^
Old Sun, Jan-27-02, 13:22
Andy Davies Andy Davies is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,212
 
Plan: My own (based on a compil
Stats: 333/260/224 Male 73 ins
BF:
Progress: 67%
Location: Hampshire, England
Default

Wow! Thanks Doreen, looks like this forum is going to be awash with baby elephants before long!

Andy
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  #10   ^
Old Sun, Jan-27-02, 14:53
dizzyd's Avatar
dizzyd dizzyd is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 528
 
Plan: PPLP (Intervention) Dilettante
Stats: //
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: Victoria, BC Canada
Lightbulb Wow!

Andy and Doreen! I have just had my eyes opened!! I began LC'ing only one short week ago, on the advice of my father, and just put blind faith in him that it would work. I've always understood the theory behind ketosis (I used to be low-fat dieting naysayer! )

Now I really honestly understand what really is going on. And I have been wondering where the fat went, but didn't want to ask!

Thanks both!!

I love learning more and more about this wonderful way of life!

Cheers!

Dizzy D
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  #11   ^
Old Sun, Jan-27-02, 17:46
NettyG's Avatar
NettyG NettyG is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 38
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 175/165/140
BF:
Progress: 29%
Location: Connecticut
Default

Doreen and Andy, what fabulous, informative posts! Thank you so much! I have the book, but as a Newbie, your posts gave me sooo much more information as to what is happening in my body! I was explaining the process to a girlfriend of mine today, attempting to share how this all worked, I wish I had read your posts first!

Thank you again!
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  #12   ^
Old Sun, Jan-27-02, 22:01
allisonm allisonm is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 354
 
Plan: Atkins/PP
Stats: //
BF:
Progress: 50%
Default

I've been eating fat for the past seven months on Atkins but I was afraid of fat too, until this week. I've been reading The Schwarzbein Principle and she's made me afraid NOT to eat fat. Apparently fat is essential in countless metabolic processes and if you don't get enough you'll have osteoporosis, low levels of sex hormones, high LDL cholesterol, arterial plaquing, and on and on.

I'm not following her program but recommend the book.

By the way, welcome!

Allison
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  #13   ^
Old Mon, Jan-28-02, 10:00
silence silence is offline
Pending Member
Posts: 48
 
Plan: atkins (was on sommersize)
Stats: 145/153/120
BF:
Progress: -32%
Location: canada, edmonton
Default ahaha, thank you guys!

it is so hard to keep good faith when every thing around me is telling me no. and i read books that say atkin's diet and other low carb diets are just fad diets....

so i should not grill my food on the foreman grill then? or should i grill it and then drink the fat? lol

i have been eating low carb for 8 months and i havent lost, i v gained!
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  #14   ^
Old Mon, Jan-28-02, 23:15
wbahn's Avatar
wbahn wbahn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,334
 
Plan: Atkins-ish, post-WLS
Stats: 377/214.5/177 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 81%
Location: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Default

Are you tracking what you eat?

Try doing this - set up a journal (if you don't already have one) in the My Journal / Bootcamp forum group and for at least one week track everything you eat and drink. Be careful not to change your eating habits. Report them there. Then the folks here can look over your intake and spot any LC killers that might be sneaking in.

We'll try to get you through this.
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  #15   ^
Old Tue, Jan-29-02, 10:04
Sh'ra's Avatar
Sh'ra Sh'ra is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 343
 
Plan: Predominantly Atkins
Stats: 320/260/145
BF:
Progress: 34%
Location: Missouri
Default

Andy and Doreen, those posts were excellent, and reminded me of my own need to get back to "basics" and out of this stall.

Silence,
Use the foreman grill if you like, just don't paper towel the fat off, and don't trim your meat heavily. Leaving the fat on while cooking the meat improves the flavor significantly, and adds moisture so you're not eating some gross, dry hunk of meat. Feel free to eat chicken with the SKIN ON, all crispy - yummmm!

I can attest to this WOE - look at my stats - and, I have been playing around with adding some carbs back in my diet - guess what? Stalled right out. Losing weight/fat by eating protein and fat while avoiding carbohydrates works.

Shalom,
Sh'ra
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