Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low-Carb Studies & Research / Media Watch > LC Research/Media
User Name
Password
FAQ Members Calendar Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #91   ^
Old Tue, Feb-15-05, 16:59
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
Forum Founder
Posts: 37,233
 
Plan: LC, GF
Stats: 241/188/140 Female 165 cm
BF:
Progress: 52%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa N
Doreen, wouldn't an electric or manual breast pump also have been an option? It seems it would be less rough than actual nursing.

I'd questioned about that in an earlier post too. You're right, pumping or manual expression would have provided milk to be given from a bottle .. and would also have ensured a continued milk supply so that nursing could be resumed after the sore areas had healed.


Doreen
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #92   ^
Old Wed, Feb-16-05, 11:03
rawfasting rawfasting is offline
New Member
Posts: 5
 
Plan: RAW
Stats: 173/150/20 Male 5'10
BF:
Progress:
Default

She had an excellent mid-wife and tried many of the items you mentioned...except the sheep goo. And keep in mind she raised the last two children the SAME way and the state gave them a clean bill of health. It wasn't until they started stuffing dead and processed food down their throat that they became very ill. Remember, none of these children have EVER been sick a day in their life...not even a mild case of sniffles!
Reply With Quote
  #93   ^
Old Wed, Feb-16-05, 12:09
Quinadal's Avatar
Quinadal Quinadal is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 596
 
Plan: HFH
Stats: 297/291/200 Female 65 inches
BF:
Progress: 6%
Location: Florida, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rawfasting
She had an excellent mid-wife and tried many of the items you mentioned...except the sheep goo. And keep in mind she raised the last two children the SAME way and the state gave them a clean bill of health. It wasn't until they started stuffing dead and processed food down their throat that they became very ill. Remember, none of these children have EVER been sick a day in their life...not even a mild case of sniffles!

People that are starving can't eat much to begin with, that's probably why they got sick. Plus, if they didn't go to a doctor, it's only THEIR word that the kids never got sick. Excuse me if I don't believe a word out of their mouths. Those 'dead' foods are far healthier than the garbage they were feeding those kids.
Reply With Quote
  #94   ^
Old Wed, Feb-16-05, 12:27
potatofree's Avatar
potatofree potatofree is offline
Fully Caffeinated
Posts: 17,245
 
Plan: Back to Atkins
Stats: 298/228/160 Female 5ft9in
BF:?/35/?
Progress: 51%
Default

I wouldn't call what she was feeding them "garbage", just inadequate for the nutritional needs of a child.
Reply With Quote
  #95   ^
Old Wed, Feb-16-05, 12:30
Quinadal's Avatar
Quinadal Quinadal is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 596
 
Plan: HFH
Stats: 297/291/200 Female 65 inches
BF:
Progress: 6%
Location: Florida, USA
Default

Well, it might have been ok for them, but for a child, it was garbage.
Reply With Quote
  #96   ^
Old Wed, Feb-16-05, 12:36
potatofree's Avatar
potatofree potatofree is offline
Fully Caffeinated
Posts: 17,245
 
Plan: Back to Atkins
Stats: 298/228/160 Female 5ft9in
BF:?/35/?
Progress: 51%
Default

rawfasting-- so it's your mission to go around anywhere this subject is discussed, trying to gather support for this family?
Reply With Quote
  #97   ^
Old Wed, Feb-16-05, 15:04
Groggy60's Avatar
Groggy60 Groggy60 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 486
 
Plan: IF/Low carb
Stats: 219/201/172 Male 70 inches
BF:
Progress: 38%
Location: Ottawa, ON
Default

I was wondering about rawfasting too. He does not seem to have anything negative to say about the situation and is way too positive. Not even having sniffles is an extremely suspect fact unless they all lived in a bubble.

Personally, I would be worried if my children didn't get sick once in while.

As group we generally tend to be somewhat negative toward vegetarians or at least their prognosis for a long life. This is not first case of vegans failing to give adequate nutrition to their children, it will not be last.
Reply With Quote
  #98   ^
Old Wed, Feb-16-05, 17:11
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
Default

Quote:
keep in mind she raised the last two children the SAME way and the state gave them a clean bill of health.


She started feeding them nothing but wheat grass, spinach, tomato and avocado at 3 months of age? I find that a little hard to believe and I find it even harder to believe that any nurse midwife worth her license would advocate such a feeding plan for such a young infant having had training in the digestive development of infants and knowing full well that infants of that age lacked the digestive enzymes to even digest such foods at that age, pureed or otherwise. There is a reason why it's not recommended to introduce solid foods prior to a certain age (between 4 and 6 months); it's because infants lack the ability to digest them prior that time; they simply go in one end and out the other without changing much or providing any nutrition whatsover and probably produce quite a bit of gas and discomfort in the process. The fact that the autopsy report states that even the child's stool smelled grassy (just like the contents of her stomach), indicate that this is exactly what was happening.
The poor girl probably was toxic...from being unable to digest the foods she was being fed and slowly starving to death as well.
Reply With Quote
  #99   ^
Old Thu, Feb-17-05, 19:16
Duparc's Avatar
Duparc Duparc is offline
New Member
Posts: 586
 
Plan: self-designed
Stats: 216/189/190 Male tad under 6'
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Kirriemuir, Scotland
Default

My understanding of wheatgrass juice is that it is highly nutritious. My late wife passed away with BC just over 6 years ago. During her final 3-4 days her flesh turned bluish/purple. Seemingly this often happens to persons on their deathbed. I juiced some fresh wheatgrass and she managed to take some. Very soon afterwards her flesh turned to its natural pink colouring and remained like this until her passing. The nurse caring for her expressed interest. Coincidence? I don't think so. My wife fully participated in the treatment from the medics and regretfully rejected any suggestions from myself until it was too late but, even that little incident proved that there is probably something beneficial in wheatgrass juice so I wouldn't under rate it.

To answer one of Groggy60's queries; for the past 5 years I have not had the cold nor the flu nor sniffles. Prevention is quite simple; take coconut. It contains lauric acid which destroys the protein envelope in which the virus hides from the immune system. It takes up to 12 hours to be effective once flu has been contacted. Add too olive leaf extract and the relief will be quicker. Add oregano virgin oil and relief will be rapid. Take coconut regularly and it will protect one from virus infections.

We cannot condemn Rawfasting for supporting this family otherwise we are at risk of having found the parents guilty in advance of the trial.

It may sound unconventional to feed a baby with wheatgrass juice simply because of our institutionalized thought processes but my guess is that the prosecution will find it difficult to prove that it is harmful. If the prosecution does not have the evidence then this could possibly be the reason why those parents have been remanded in custody for so long.

It looks as if the prosecution are hoping to prove this case on the tide of public opinion and prejudice rather than on evidence. It will be interesting to see how the prosecution proceeds with its case.
Reply With Quote
  #100   ^
Old Thu, Feb-17-05, 20:48
potatofree's Avatar
potatofree potatofree is offline
Fully Caffeinated
Posts: 17,245
 
Plan: Back to Atkins
Stats: 298/228/160 Female 5ft9in
BF:?/35/?
Progress: 51%
Default

Whatever kind of alleged curative properties wheatgrass juice contains, it is not a sufficient source of nutrition for an infant.
Reply With Quote
  #101   ^
Old Thu, Feb-17-05, 21:11
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is online now
Posts: 8,767
 
Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 116%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
Default

Wheatgrass juice may be a good supplement, but it lacks the macronutrients needed to be a food item. It has less than a gram of protein and carbs in an ounce of juice. There just are not the calories in it that are needed to sustain life.
Reply With Quote
  #102   ^
Old Thu, Feb-17-05, 21:30
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
Forum Founder
Posts: 37,233
 
Plan: LC, GF
Stats: 241/188/140 Female 165 cm
BF:
Progress: 52%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
Default

Infants under one year require pre-formed omega-3 EFA's ... specifically DHA and EPA. These essential fatty acids are found pre-formed in nature ONLY in animal source fats .. fish oils, brain tissue, and mother's milk. Most (but not all) adults and older children can convert ALA (alpha-linolenic acid) from flax and other vegetable oils to the vital form DHA. However, infants under one year of age lack the enzyme necessary for the conversion (delta-6 dehydrogenase) .. they MUST get DHA pre-formed from their food .. either breast milk or a suitably fortified infant formula. There are vegan soy formulas which provide DHA synthesized from yeasts.

ALA from vegetable oil has important function in the body, but only DHA and EPA can provide nutrients and fuel for a developing brain and nervous system, as well as the retina of the eyes.

Even the Food Pyramid acknowledges that children under 2 years of age have higher protein and fat requirements than older children and adults.


Doreen
Reply With Quote
  #103   ^
Old Fri, Feb-18-05, 04:14
Duparc's Avatar
Duparc Duparc is offline
New Member
Posts: 586
 
Plan: self-designed
Stats: 216/189/190 Male tad under 6'
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Kirriemuir, Scotland
Default

Come on now, folk, you are reading into my post things that were not said. I confined my statement to the benefit of wheatgrass juice and while it is known that the mother fed her child with other substances some of which, of course, have been mentioned, but, presumably there would be food substances which the mother fed that would provide additional nutrition. As I don't know of those, then I am not in the position to comment.
Reply With Quote
  #104   ^
Old Fri, Feb-18-05, 05:32
LondonIan's Avatar
LondonIan LondonIan is offline
Slightly foxed
Posts: 9,318
 
Plan: Take over the world,Pinky
Stats: 284/275/224 Male 5'7"
BF:No, I'm straight
Progress: 15%
Location: London, UK
Default

I've only just seen this thread so I'm coming to it a bit late. The most disturbing part for me was the enemas. Giving wheatgrass enemas to a FIVE MONTH OLD?!

Unless the parents are psychotic and totally lacking in insight (i.e. are legally insane) than that is wilful child abuse right there. Hopefully they will having to adjust to prison food for a long, long time.
Reply With Quote
  #105   ^
Old Fri, Feb-18-05, 08:13
Quinadal's Avatar
Quinadal Quinadal is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 596
 
Plan: HFH
Stats: 297/291/200 Female 65 inches
BF:
Progress: 6%
Location: Florida, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LondonIan
Hopefully they will having to adjust to prison food for a long, long time.

I'd love to see the reaction when they try to demand wheatgrass and a vegan diet in jail. Or better yet, the vaccinations and medical checkups!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:10.


Copyright © 2000-2024 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.