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  #869   ^
Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 12:08
Davideb Davideb is offline
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Plan: high fat BFL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob21370
Well, I never became obese listening to music, that's for sure.

In reality, it's less of a concern for me what people thousands and thousands of years ago ate than doing what works. And what works is eliminating all carbs from my diet period. Sure, I lost weight eating 30-50g of carbs a day, but in the long run I couldn't maintain the discipline because I can't tolerate carbs and with the constant ingestion of carbs I couldn't break the aculturation as Bear calls it.


I'm glad it is working for you, but you can't label absolute, not that you're doing it's just an example, what you're doing and extrapolate it to billions of other humans and of course someone an all meat diet didn't work for can't extrapolate his/her experience to all other humans including you denying thus your truth of what is working for your body. The title of this thread does exactly that, that was my point ...

David
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  #870   ^
Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 12:51
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
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Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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David,

This acid/alkaline balance thing is totally ridiculous! You really only need to check out any basic physiology book to see that.

As far as your LONG rambles which repeat the same themes... they are really just not necessary. You may think people are "getting brainwashed" by Bear, or some other such nonsense... or that that is Bear's purpose for this thread. You are SO off the mark on this, it is a total joke! "Sieg Heil, Bear"! Give me a break! None of us on this forum are robots! Do you honestly think that people are just flocking mindlessly to what Bear says? The people who agree with him have been doing YEARS of OTHER research (including, most importantly, trials on their own bodies!), and what Bear says is clicking into those concepts! Just because they don't click into yours, does not mean the rest of us are puppets or something!

The BEST, most nutrient dense food is animal food... especially the FAT! I would venture to guess that if you took any new born human that was healthy at birth, and raised them on an all animal diet (with lots of animal fat), they would THRIVE! However, if you raised them on fruit... they would be DEAD in no time! So, let's get REAL, shall we?!

I know crazy cat owners (who are vegans!) who feed their cats fruit and veggies and SWEAR it is good for them! The cats eat it! And, there are so many cats eating CORNMEAL it is disgusting! Now... I guess, by your logic, this makes them "opportunistic omnivores" or some other such ludicrous label! GIVE ME A BREAK... a cat is an obligate CARNIVORE... no matter how INSANE their vegan owners might be!

And, you should read accounts of REAL fruitarians. OMG! They are SO SICK and psychotic on that type of diet! I will search for some links... it will blow your mind!

I think Bear is rightfully using empirical data over research and perhaps you should try to do the same. I will be glad to add to the empirical data and be just one more person that eats this way. I robot. I eat meat. Sieg Heil, Bear! RIGHT! Hey... here's a novel idea... why don't YOU try this diet out for a month, and see how you FEEL! Have you EVER done that?

And, Bear is correct... if you took the time to READ...

Really... in the END... we all MUST decide what WOE we want to ADOPT... whether we would "bet the farm" on our "belief" in it or not! I think that's what this forum is really about!

Last edited by PaleoDeano : Fri, Mar-24-06 at 13:49.
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  #871   ^
Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 13:09
Rob21370's Avatar
Rob21370 Rob21370 is offline
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Plan: My own
Stats: 336/297/140 Male 5'8"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaleoDeano

I know crazy cat owners (who are vegans!) who feed their cats fruit and veggies and SWEAR it is good for them! The cats eat it! And, there are so many cats eating CORNMEAL it is disgusting! Now... I guess, by your logic, this makes them "opportunistic omnivores" or some other such ludicrous label! GIVE ME A BREAK... a cat is an obligate CARNIVORE... no matter how INSANE their vegan owners might be!

And, you should read accounts of REAL fruitarians. OMG! They are SO SICK and psychotic on that type of diet! I will search for some links... it will blow your mind!

I think Bear is rightfully using empirical data over research and perhaps you should try to do the same.

I will be glad to add to the empirical data and be just one more person that eats this way. I robot. I eat meat. Sieg Heil, Bear! RIGHT!

Hey... here's a novel idea... why don't YOU try this diet out for a month, and see how you FEEL! Have you EVER done that?

And, Bear is correct... if you took the time to READ...


HAha...great post deano. Everytime I go into Trader Joe's and see the vegetarian dog and cat food it drives me nuts. Why impose your irrational diet on your furry friends? Nothing made me happier when my cats would catch and eat their own prey. I loved that and loved watching them chomp on the little critters they caught too.

In regards to David's comments about Bear brainwashing us all, I couldn't help but think of the Star Trek TNG episode where Picard accidently interacts with a backwards society that still believes in religion and the people mistake Picard for a god and refer to him as "The Picard" and live in total fear of making Jean-Luc upset.

Do not talk that way about the diet David, you will make The Bear angry and he will hurt us! (all you trekkies will know what I mean)
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  #872   ^
Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 14:02
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raju99 raju99 is offline
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Plan: Mostly meat
Stats: 213/203/180 Male 71
BF:~20%
Progress: 30%
Thumbs up This thread rocks!!

Bear,

Thank you very very much for starting this thread. I've enjoyed the 700+ posts thus far and I'm looking forward to many more.

Based mostly on your observations, I've switched to a mostly meat diet since the beginning of the month and I gotta say I feel great. No more mid-day carb-induced slumps. No more feeling dizzy from a lack of carbs. I feel constantly energized throughout the day. I've also dropped 5 lbs. And flatulence levels have decreased too (my wife is happy about this too)

I've been experimenting with my diet for the past few months. Starting at the beginning of the month, I went from a usual American diet ( > 40% carbs) to a low-carb (100 gms.) diet in a matter of a week. I have been slowly dropping carbs since and I'm currently hovering around 50 gms/day. The carbs I get are now from vegetables and some fruit. I have noticed that the weight seems to be coming off faster over the past 2 weeks, ever since I dropped the carbs further.

A few questions for you (I apologize if some of this has already been asked .... this thread has been running for a while and I might have forgotten something) :

1. I've read Greg Ellis's book (after seeing it mentioned in this thread) and he seems to be saying mostly what you are ... except for the inclusion of around 80 gms of carbs a day. Apart from this one point, what's your view on the research that he used to backup his claims? (Assuming you have read the book)

2. You stated that it doesnt matter how much fat you eat on an all meat diet. So the "excess" fat either stays in the system, making you feel less hungry until it is all used up, or it is excreted. Which one of these is it? Also, do you have any research from your stash supporting your view? (Not challenging here, I'm just interested).

3. I know the link between dietary fat and heart disease or serum cholesterol is somewhat dubious. In your experience, what is the effect of a high fat/high protein diet on serum cholesterol & triglyceride levels ... assuming that the so-called normal ranges are actually of medical significance.

4. From your experience, is there really that much of a difference in weight loss/control from a 5gm vs 50gm carbs/day level?

Thanks again & keep it coming!

Cheers,

Raju
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  #873   ^
Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 14:35
TBoneMitch TBoneMitch is offline
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Plan: High Fat/IF
Stats: 215/170/160 Male 5 feet 10 inches
BF:27%/12%/8%
Progress: 82%
Location: Montreal, Quebec
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Raju,

dr Ellis firmly believes that an all meat diet is the best one for humans, but also thinks that very few people can handle the discipline required in the long term...

He also believes that you can derive plenty of benefits from going to whatever level of carbs you are eating to 25%, and from there to 10%, and then to 0%.

As for the effects on animal fat on blood lipids, in the context of a very low carb diet, triglycerides always go down, HDL always goes up, and LDL either goes up, stays the same, or goes down.

My LDL went down while my GF's went up.

However, our triglycerides went way way down while HDL skyrocketed.
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  #874   ^
Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 15:23
CGraff CGraff is offline
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Plan: my own
Stats: -/-/- Female 67 inches
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin
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Absolute Scientific Proof Carbohydrates Are Pathogenic
(Disease Causing)
www.biblelife.org/carbs.htm
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  #875   ^
Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 15:45
Grog Grog is offline
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Plan: Paleo
Stats: 213/211.6/185 Male 70"
BF:26%/27%/10%
Progress: 5%
Location: South Texas
Default Going Zero

Those of you who've made a recent switch to 0 carbs, did you go uh, 'cold turkey,' or transition slowly by dropping the percentage of carbs in your diet?

If you made a rapid transition, did you notice any ill effects from doing so?

If so, how long did it take for these ill effects to subside?

I'm looking for pointers on the best way to approach this, because mentally I've accepted the reasoning but have physically had problems adjusting to zero carbs.
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  #876   ^
Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 15:47
Davideb Davideb is offline
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Plan: high fat BFL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaleoDeano
David,
As far as your LONG rambles which repeat the same themes... they are really just not necessary. You may think people are "getting brainwashed" by Bear, or some other such nonsense... or that that is Bear's purpose for this thread. You are SO off the mark on this, it is a total joke! "Sieg Heil, Bear"! Give me a break! None of us on this forum are robots! Do you honestly think that people are just flocking mindlessly to what Bear says? The people who agree with him have been doing YEARS of OTHER research (including, most importantly, trials on their own bodies!), and what Bear says is clicking into those concepts! Just because they don't click into yours, does not mean the rest of us are puppets or something!


You're wrong, I never thought that people are robots or that they are being brainwashed, I give them more credits than you do. The thread title is misleading and the egocentrism of your ideologist is unbelievable

Quote:
The BEST, most nutrient dense food is animal food... especially the FAT! I would venture to guess that if you took any new born human that was healthy at birth, and raised them on an all animal diet (with lots of animal fat), they would THRIVE! However, if you raised them on fruit... they would be DEAD in no time! So, let's get REAL, shall we?!


You're accusing other people of being psychotic because of their choices where you can't even post a normal sentence without resorting to useless, I'm right-you're wrong buzzwords. People like you may have read those studies that first you criticize and then you use to support your ideas but you clearly didn't understand anything about them. If you read the data about modern hunter-gatherer societies you will see they are not all eating an all meat diet and those who aren't are not dying of pathological diseases any more then the other. Any person enough humble to understand that your life and your experiences are not an universal truth that changes other's truths and basic life facts would have realized that human onnivorousness is showed in the spectrum of diet in which traditional tribes thrive worldwide. You have the high meat end of the spectrum and you have the high plant food end of the spectrum and the one in the high plant food end of the spectrum are not getting sick or dying. You get real and stop deluding yourself into believing that you can understand the world truth by letting the world know what happens within your body and life. Egocentrism is more disgusting and dangerous than the SAD diet you hate so much.

Quote:
I know crazy cat owners (who are vegans!) who feed their cats fruit and veggies and SWEAR it is good for them! The cats eat it! And, there are so many cats eating CORNMEAL it is disgusting! Now... I guess, by your logic, this makes them "opportunistic omnivores" or some other such ludicrous label! GIVE ME A BREAK... a cat is an obligate CARNIVORE... no matter how INSANE their vegan owners might be!


Any other idiotic comment you care to share?
Cats and other felines get sick and eventually, even read the cancer rate of pets?, diet when they're fed a diet which is contrary to their physiology and anatomy. We agree that SAD diet is a unhealthy diet that is killing lot of people. So we've taken as an example traditional diets which are also used as indirect tests to speculate what the paleolithic humans eat. We know that among these hunter-gatherers diseases are rare and they're strong and fit. But there's not a single hunter-gatherer diet, we have a spectrum of environments and therefore a spectrum of diets, this is possible because you're omnivores, carnivorous animals would never survive enough to adapt to such a wide spectrum of environement and diets.
The ends of the spectrum are high meat diets and also high very high plant food diets and both the members of the population at the end of the spectrum are quite healthy and fit. The majority of hunter-gatherer societies is in the middle with diet that have a relevant amount of animal food and a relevant amount of plant food and they too are not getting sick or dying minute by minute but are not less healthy then the other ones.
This is natural omnivorousness as it's clear by a body who is both suited for meat and both suited for plants and therefore can live on almost anything and survive in different conditions and environments.

Quote:
And, you should read accounts of REAL fruitarians. OMG! They are SO SICK and psychotic on that type of diet! I will search for some links... it will blow your mind!


This is already blowing my mind! You're not different from the people you're criticizing, you have the same presumptuous dogmatic attitude and anytime you call someone sick and psychotic, so your subjective judgement, realize that many other people may do the same to you. You're not showing any less psychosis and egocentrism than that, you didn't even understand how what I said was in support of your diet but was not in support of your ridicolours broad ecogentric statements but no, it wasn't enough, you want me to "get real" hence accept that not only your diet is working for you and hence it's a good for you diet but that since what's work for your is gospel this diet must suddenly become the only natural human diet and all the rest if inferior and not mean by nature. You're not only identical to a fruitarian but you're also offending all the other people in this board who think of themselves of healthy inividuals even if they don't stuff themselves with nothing but steak.

Quote:
I think Bear is rightfully using empirical data over research and perhaps you should try to do the same. I will be glad to add to the empirical data and be just one more person that eats this way. I robot. I eat meat. Sieg Heil, Bear! RIGHT! Hey... here's a novel idea... why don't YOU try this diet out for a month, and see how you FEEL! Have you EVER done that?


Empirical data will prove everything and then they will prove the exact opposite of what they proved. Because we're individual, because you condition bodies history psychology adaptations and needs are unique. Even our being omnivorous emphatize this individual uniqueness since unlike herbivorous and carnivores real omnivores can device a diet which is unique to their body by playing with the amount and ratio of foods as no other family of animals can. Is that hard for your to understand that if I try an all meat diet and I feel wonderful in an all meat diet it won't mean anything except that it is a good diet for me, that is may work for me and that it is another diet that I may consider, that I won't mean it's the natural real human diet or that I was born as a carnivorous animal instead of an omnivorous one.
Read again the link of your dear psychotic peer fruitarians, can you just see that what they do when they say that since they feel wondeful after eating nothing but mango for months everyone should eat that way and all the other are inferior eater is the same attitude you're having. Isn't it true that we're judgemental idiots with those people that we know are like us and we blame our cons on them not to blame them on us after all?

David

Last edited by Davideb : Fri, Mar-24-06 at 15:56.
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  #877   ^
Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 16:09
Rob21370's Avatar
Rob21370 Rob21370 is offline
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Plan: My own
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davideb
You're wrong, I never thought that people are robots or that they are being brainwashed, I give them more credits than you do. The thread title is misleading and the egocentrism of your ideologist is unbelievable



So then, why are you here?

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  #878   ^
Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 16:22
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
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Plan: IF & Keto
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BF:Too much!
Progress: 34%
Location: Rural Maine
Default

I have to admit that I, for one, have stopped reading David's posts. I agree with the flow of this thread (Bear's views), mostly because they confirm what I've thought for years. I just don't have the time or energy to read through David's posts. Sorry, David, but you probably don't care anyway.

I'm mostly curious how people are adapting to this way of eating. I've always been extremely low carb, but now am down to zero carbs, except what's in eggs and the occasional (VERY occasional) nuts I eat.

What do you tell people? I'm not a slave to what others think about my eating habits, but it does tend to get uncomfortable at times.

"What's for lunch, Bawdy?" Oh, just some chicken and a couple tablespoons of butter.

"What's that snack, Bawdy?" Just some coconut oil with a little unsweetened coconut and a smidgen of SF peanut butter thrown in.

"So, all you're eating is meat and fat?" Well, yes, but actually more fat than meat.

See what I mean? To the average person, this sounds bizarre!
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  #879   ^
Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 16:33
sailsouth sailsouth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGraff
Absolute Scientific Proof Carbohydrates Are Pathogenic
(Disease Causing)
www.biblelife.org/carbs.htm


OMG didn't I say ... about 500 posts ago ... don't bring Kent's brand of non science into this (Jim Fixx and Brian Maxwell ate carbs and they died from heart attacks - therefore this is PROOF that carbs cause heart attacks!! )

Mind you, to give him some credit, he is not suggesting carbs be eliminated from the diet, just restricted, just like his heroes - Atkins, the Eades, Lutz ....

And thankyou David for shedding a little light on this 'car crash' Just when I thought I had got over my desire to slow down and look, you make it interesting again!
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  #880   ^
Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 16:45
Davideb Davideb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob21370
So then, why are you here?



Just sharing my opinion. Presuntuosly believing to have the duty to save people fro brainwashing, agreeing with the premise of the post, joining the broad statements fan club are not the only reasons for posting.
I had an opinion, I posted it. I had more, I posted more.

David
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  #881   ^
Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 17:04
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Rob21370 Rob21370 is offline
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Plan: My own
Stats: 336/297/140 Male 5'8"
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Progress: 20%
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BawdyWench

I'm mostly curious how people are adapting to this way of eating. I've always been extremely low carb, but now am down to zero carbs, except what's in eggs and the occasional (VERY occasional) nuts I eat.

What do you tell people? I'm not a slave to what others think about my eating habits, but it does tend to get uncomfortable at times.


First thing I notice about zero carb is that my sweet/starchy cravings are minimal. I only remember once feeling edgy about eating something off the diet, and it was because my old lady was having the "low carb" ice cream for desert. How do they get away with the "net carbs" bs? Sugar alcohol isn't a carb? I used to accept it as real but now I think people are only fooling themselves with the net carb counts.

I still haven't lost a significant amount of weight yet, but when I dropped 100+ pounds in 1998 people first asked me if I was ok, then when I told them about my diet they thought I was kind of nuts. But back then I was doing the more traditional Atkins type diet where I always felt the need to say that I still ate veggies and "good carbs" and emphasis that i was eating good meat like poultry and fish. I still eat poultry and fish, but not like I used to. I pretty much eat 1-2 steaks a day right now for the most part.

Now I can't wait to tell them I'm totally carnivorious, especially since I work for a clinical research organization where lots of people put a premium on vegitation
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  #882   ^
Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 17:33
Davideb Davideb is offline
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Wanted just to say that in spite of what the broad insubstantiated statements fan-club claimed there are no evidences that we needed to eat just meat to enlarge our brain or that only by eating nothing but meat our brain grew.
Everything about this field is nothing but weak speculation even for those spending years using this mistery and the last word has not been said yet.

The orthodox position is that the increase of meat consumption provided us with the needed fat and protein to grow larger brains.

The there's the speculation that it was our nut consumption, and yes food residues of nut sheeld have been found but as any serious palenthologist know vegetable matter leave no trace especially if it is consumed in the wild during the gathering away from the sites where the scavenger bones have been accumulated to use them, to provide the far required to grow larger brains.

Then there's the speculation that cooking actually provided us with larger brain

Then there's a more substantiated theory according to which a larger intake of DHA from the diet would have bypassed the mechanism of EFA synthesis from ALA and LA precursors that according to same is to data an unefficient process in humans. Bypassing such a tricky process would allow the body to save its biological resources to build new tissues and structure from the fats. As long as we relied on the body mechanism such resources were spent in making the mechanism adequate. Such larger intake of DHA would have been provided by fish. According to this theory humans evolved mainly along the sea or rivers and made fish and fishing a vital part of their diet. Swimming and fishing would have in turn provided the motor-cohordination necessary to further develop the new neural structures. According to this theory swimming is instinctive for this reason and for this reason we increased our subcutaneus fat compared to other primates and lost most of our hair or have a less flat nose.

Even more interesting there's another theory by harvard anthropologist Terrence Deacon according to which no kind of brain growing, or encephalization, ever occurred we would just have two growth patters in the same body, the body growth pattern of smaller primates and the brain growth pattern of larger primates. This would also lead to rethinking the whole evolution theory that to date is still speculation and mistrusted by several anthropologists and biologists.
You can read more about Deacon theory in his book "The Synbolic Species"

David
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  #883   ^
Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 18:10
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Harvest Harvest is offline
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Default The Alaskan Traditional Diet Survey

Some of you may be interested in this read http://www.arctichealth.org/ANHB_Fi...ATDP_final).pdf

Another, www.nativeknowledge.org
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  #884   ^
Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 19:04
theBear theBear is offline
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Day on the Green, summer, Oakland- with the Who. It was at the stage left speaker-extension. Rex Jackson and I were shifting the boxes after the Who finished. He swung the box towards one side: I was holding on to the box, lost my footing and went out over the edge. I was knocked out briefly. I was not able to hang on to the box due to my gloves. Not fun, missed our entire set while at hospital getting the cast put on.

I wish Mr Contrary would REALLY read the entire thread, and stop making silly, stupid comments contradicting the facts I have already presented, and which have been thoroughly discussed by the people unlike yourself, who are genuinely interested in a meat only diet. This discussion was started as a place where open minded people, who are having various problems with their health and especially body fat levels, can find and discuss information not generally available. I actually only resent the intrusion of someone who is uneducated in the truth ,closed minded and obstinate, and who adamantly and intractably asserts we are 'omnivores', contrary to the evidence to be seen in our teeth, stomachs, intestines and the impact on our general health of such a dietary regime. For you information I do not lie nor do I invent anything.

I will say this one more time: I have eaten an exclusive, all meat diet for forty seven and one half years. IK have better than 'normal' health, and a very strong body. I have exhibited NO deficiencies of any kind during this extended period. My blood chemistry is rock stable and within all normal limits.

Nutritional DEFICIENCIES are defined by observation of the negative effects in the people studied, then verified by adding to their diet the missing nutrient thought to cause the deficiency, and further observing to see if there is any improvement- Nutrition requirements are not determined by some mysterious, 'scientific' arcana.

Do you have all your teeth.... are you even 47 years old? If you doubt my veracity and the length of time I have been on this dietary path, I can easily reference dozens of people who know me (some of my friends from before '58 are still alive) to verify it. Not only that, but there are many articles and interviews in print which mention it- over a very long time span.

Welcome to the real world.

'Studies'? Stefansson LIVED and worked for YEARS with the 'feral' Inuit. And Stef is not the only Arctic explorer who lived amongst them to state the exact same things about the Inuit people. You can say nothing to verify the bonafides of people who claim the Inuit ate stomach content- it is an ancient and completely laughable vegetarian myth. So, yes, they lied and created myths, that is the first true statement you have made. Stefansson is above such nonsense. Why is it you never check things out before babbling such egregious nonsense?

Incidentally there is nothing 'unique' about my body, it is just like yours and everyone else's, we are all human and differ only the most minute ways, like a propensity to quickly become obese, or being hyper-metabolic, and having a great difficulty gaining either bodyfat or muscle mass. The former is more common than the latter. But neither is proof of omnivorism, any more that blood type. If you are an adherent to that silly idea, I am A neg, meaning (or so I have been led to understand) that meat is 'bad' for me.

If your 'opinions' are the tiresome repetitions of nonsense you have already posted- several times, then I and almost all of the other participants of this rather lengthy and informative thread really do not need or want any more repeats- it is distracting from the real subject under consideration and adds absolutely nothing of value. It only forces many readers to take you to task, as I have- thus wasting our valuable time. We really don't need or want to interact with vegetarians, we are not proselytising our ways, do not expect to be proselytised and trust me on this, none of us will be convinced by your specious arguments

A pediatrician I consulted at the time of my second wife's pregnancy in 1960 told me that a newborn human baby could ONLY digest human milk and (not too fatty), under-cooked or raw, finely chewed or pureed- meat. He also said that grain and vegetable based baby foods like Pablum would cause serious gastric and colonic difficulties until the child reached at least 2-1/2 years of age.

Some vegans have famously been jailed for homicide for causing the deaths of their children from malnutrition due to their diet.

The usual dry and grain containing cat and dog food is the reason that these animal suffer from diabetes, when feral or meat fed cats and dogs never do.

Yes, Greg Ellis has never been able to go strict himself, even though he knows the truth. For one thing it is very difficult for him like everyone else due to his culture, and although he wants people to know about the diet, he also wants to sell his books- and he knows, like Atkins did, that virtually all people simply won't be able to adopt a diet with too little of the socially familiar carb content. Greg sent me many excellent papers on metabolism, which I have put away somewhere. I have not been able to locate them due to all the work I have here on my property each day. As soon as I find them, I will post the refs.

An all meat diet does not contain 50 gms of carbs. Such a carb content will not allow unlimited fat/meat intake. Yes, it matters a lot between 50 gms and 5. Dietary fat either is not absorbed due top exceeding the supply of emulsifying bile, causing loose stools, or if absorbed- will circulate until used. Radio-tagged fat has been used to show that dietary fat does not enter adipose cells.

For a complete explanation of cholesterol and saturated fat, read 'The Cholesterol Myths' by Uffe Ravnskov. Visit the website thincs.org.

Both HDL and LDL cholesterol are very important and work on concert. Neither have any proven relationship to coronary artery disease, which has been shown (by a study which I have already referenced on this thread)- to relate to insulin.

The 'recommended' levels are far below the actual average seen in normal, healthy people. These 'standards' were set by bogus 'studies' (and carefully edited research papers) funded by the pharmaceutical industry. It has been lowered from a healthy 250-300 mg/dl to a dangerously low 140- in a move to put 90+% of all humans in a category 'requiring' statins, which are very dangerous chemicals with severe side effects. This is the industry's new 'insulin for life' drug. More deaths occur from all causes with a low level than with a high level, especially in older folk.

Cold turkey on carbs causes some degree of feeling tired and having low energy levels for a while. This will pass away gradually over a few weeks to be replaced by boundless energy once you have keto-adapted. If you try to taper-off, you simple delay adaptation, how much so will depend on the level of carbs. But be warned, a surprisingly small amount of dietary carbs in some individuals will stop keto-adaptation in its tracks.
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Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 19:07
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Harvest Harvest is offline
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Wink Some Northern Eskimo Specialties

This is from Cooking Alaskan by Alaskans. Thought is was interesting.


Caribou is an important food for many of Alaska's people. Almost all part of the animal may be used. All of the following Northern Eskimo specialties are from The Alaska Dietary Survey. Note that one of them uses "two of the stomach parts. Caribou are ruminants and-like cattle, deer and others-have several "stomachs" through which food is processed and reprocessed.

Caribou stomach and its contents (partially digested vegetation, including lichens such as reindeer moss) may be frozen immediately after butchering and stored for future use. It is eaten frozen with seal oil.
Sometimes, at butchering, a small amount of the stomach contents is removed, just enought so that the stomach and its remaining contents can be easily handled. The stomach is then set in the snow and covered with caribou skins to prevent freezing. In about two or three days the stomach contents become sweet.
Two of the stomach parts- the rumen (called knee-oo-kuk by Northern Eskimos) and the omasum (muk-pee-rawk) -are removed, cleaned thoroughly and boiled a short time. They are eaten with or without seal oil as desired.

Caribou intestine - The cleaned small intestines of caribour are stuffed with strips of visceral fat obtained from around the stomach and intestines. The ends are tied and this "sausage" is then boiled a long time. The cooked fat may then be used as a spread or in other ways much like butter.
At the hunting camp, the visceral fat stips may be placed in the cleaned small intestine but left uncooked. At home, these stips are removed and hung up to dry, either indoors or outdoors. The fat is used in making agutuk.
The small intestines with the visceral fat left attached are cleaned, thoroughly washed and then cooked in water. The rendered fat is removed, the cooked intestines chopped into lengths of an inch or less and the two are thoughly mixed together.
The cleaned small intestines with attached visceral fat are ground, chopped and pounded thoroughly and then heated in water. The fat is removed as it is rendered. This fat is then whipped, gradually mixed with seal oil, stirred until it becomes light and fluffy, and one or more of the following is added
: blueberries, crowberries, chopped cooked Eskimo potato, raisins, dried apples, cooked, chopped or ground caribou meat or cooked whitefish.

Caribou eyes, including the muscle and fat around them, are cooked until soft. Only the muscle and the fat are eaten.

Caribou liver may be fried or it may be prepared as Nay-ru-kuk, as follows: Short stips of liver and muscle tendon, particulary those found close to the sinews along the back and in the hind and forelegs, are mixed with the stomach contents, put into a cleaned caribou stomach and then set aside in a warm, but not too hot, place for about a week. The mixture becomes sweet. If kept too long it gets too sweet.

Bone marrow (pa-tik) may be eaten raw or cooked. Marrow differs in consistency depending on the location of the bone. The most solid part is found in the hip and upper thigh bone and is called ki-nik-nik . Less solid marrow is found in the lower thigh and upper part of the shank bones. This marrow is called ah-noa-tuk-suk. The marrow found in the lower part of the leg is oil-like in consistency and is called peg-nick. This is the most preferred.
In times past, but less frequently now, it was a common practive to break up the caribou bones, cover them with water and simmer to render out the fat. Both fat and marrow were then removed from the cooking pot and mixed thoroughly. This mixture was stored in a cleaned and dried caribout stomach and then frozen. It was used as a spread or as a condiment with fish and meat. At Shungnak this mixture is called poing-nik.

Caribou kidneys are not often eaten and when the are, they are preferred raw right after the animal is killed and the kidneys still "hot and steaming" at which time they are said to have a very spicy taste.

Blood is sometimes drunk raw from the freshly killed animal, but its most common use in the aboriginal times was as a soup thickener. It had to be stirred carefully into the hot, but not boiling, liquid to prevent coagulation. Then thin slivers of caribou fat were added and stirred to make a creamy mixture or gravy.
Fresh caribou blood is sometimes stored in the thoroughly cleaned stomach part, the reticulum, and then frozen. This blook is used in soups or in the preparation of azeesuk. Azeesuk is made by chopping lowbush cranberries, adding caribou blood and stirring and whipping the mixture to a fluff.
Sometimes caribou back fat is dipped into blood and air-dried. It is said the fat inside never gets spoiled or yellow.
Caribou back fat is sometimes ground, and to it is added blood, flour, pepper, onion and salt. This sausage mixture is stuffed into cleaned caribou intestines, the ends tied and the whole cooked by boiling. This was learned from the Lapps who were brought over in the early days to help with the reindeer industry.

Caribou brains are sometimes eaten raw, especially by the men at hunting camps: sometimes fried, sometimes cooked with tongue to make a stew or used to make kah-kay-suk. The latter is make by boiling the caribou brain along with the meat and fat from the jaws and around the eyes and other parts of the head. The meat is separated out, mixed with the melted caribou fat and salted to taste.

Just wanted to share.
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Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 19:24
theBear theBear is offline
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MODERN Alaskan cooking. Not traditional subsistence Inuit.

The Inuit ate much of their meat raw if not frozen, and only boiled their meat a little in skins over seal-oil lamps, no other cooking method was available. The ancient Inuit fed most of the animal (including the stomach and intestines) to their dogs. They consumed the tongue, liver (not seal) and nose, as well as some favoured cuts like the shoulder from the carcass, the remainder was fed to the dogs. Dogs were very important and ate as well or better than the people in most circumstances. It was end-game starvation if an Inuit either failed to feed or ate his dogs.
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Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 21:21
theBear theBear is offline
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Definitions:

Modern or 'normal' diet:

A 'mixed diet'. Omnivorous, including all low toxicity vegetation and most if not all meats eggs and dairy. Arguably the primary cause of many of modern man's health problems such as obesity, tooth decay, premature aging, coronary heart disease, diabetes, early cataracts, weak bones, joint and back (disk) problems and a few others.

Vegetarian:

Omnivorous, or quasi-omnivorous, including most if not all low toxicity vegetation, and some or all of the following: eggs, dairy, fish, Fowl. No 'red' meat. Moderately deficient diet, severity depends on the animal-food content and supplementation with synthetic vitamins and minerals. ,It usually causes no more than mild malnutrition. Is subject to all the ills listed above for mixed diet.

Vegan:

Herbivorous. This is the only truly 'vegetarian' diet. It includes all or most low toxicity vegetables, often heavy on fruit, and no foods of any kind from animal sources. Very deficient diet, it is very difficult to supplement as many animal-source only nutrients are missing. Adults may survive for a surprisingly long time on such a pallid regime, but it is rapidly fatal to babies and young children if/when taken off the breast. Breast feeding is very body-damaging- as is gestation- to a vegan woman.

Carnivorous, or 'all meat diet':

Includes all meats, eggs and some dairy (that which has low to no carbs/lactose). Does not include any vegetables of any kind other than some small amounts of certain plants used as spices. Provides perfect lifelong nutrition, no deficiencies, no supplementation is needed. It produces none, in fact protects against, all of the above listed ills.

Nutritional/energy value of animal-sourced foods: One unit of red (fat) meat equals 2 units of chicken or three units of fish or four units of eggs and/or cheese. Only some few cheeses have enough fat of the the non red-meat foods, some added fat is necessary to make them fat-balanced.

Last edited by theBear : Fri, Mar-24-06 at 21:35. Reason: error
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Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 21:24
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PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
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David,

I was not trying to "label" anyone psychotic. What I was referring to was behavior. I don't know what you would call someone who is so freaked out (from nutrient deprivation) that they consume over thirty POUNDS of dates in ONE day! You have no idea what I was referring to. But, it is really not worth going into. According to you, we humans are apparently evolving toward becoming some sort of sea creature who will consume nothing but plankton in the near future! I guess you watched too many re-runs of Flipper when you were a lad. I think I will take Bawdy's advice and just quit reading your bad attempts at science fiction prose.

Last edited by PaleoDeano : Fri, Mar-24-06 at 21:32.
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Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 21:37
theBear theBear is offline
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You said it- better than I could, dean.

Last edited by theBear : Fri, Mar-24-06 at 21:38. Reason: err
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Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 21:43
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Frederick Frederick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BawdyWench
I'm mostly curious how people are adapting to this way of eating. I've always been extremely low carb, but now am down to zero carbs, except what's in eggs and the occasional (VERY occasional) nuts I eat.


For me, given my naturally intense disliking of all plant-foods, it has been incredibly effortless. However, like most of us here, Iíve been low-carbing for about three years. My body has already more or less acclimated to burning primarily fat.

So far, being on 0 (5 in practice) carbs hasnít caused any issues thus far. Even my weight workout sessions havenít really suffered. I feel great, and feel that Iím now as physically more fit and healthier than I have ever been at any other point in my life.

In my case, I am certain it is from eating a purely fatty meat based diet.
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Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 21:52
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Frederick Frederick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaleoDeano
According to you, we humans are apparently evolving toward becoming some sort of sea creature who will consume nothing but plankton in the near future! I guess you watched too many re-runs of Flipper when you were a lad. I think I will take Bawdy's advice and just quit reading your bad attempts at science fiction prose.


In my view, aside from posterityís sake, Iím not interested in what my ancestors had eaten, or had not eaten.

If my ancestors werenít resourceful enough and had to rely on some vegetation, fruits, berries, and nuts classifying them as omnivores, to what end would I mimic their behavior if Iím resourceful enough to be completely carnivorous without ever having to resort to vegetation?

Given that I derive all the nutrients I need from meats, cheese, eggs, and whatever, can anyone give me one good reason to eat vegetation? Is it only because our ancestors werenít evolved enough to survive without it?
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Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 22:03
Davideb Davideb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaleoDeano
David,
According to you, we humans are apparently evolving toward becoming some sort of sea creature who will consume nothing but plankton in the near future! I guess you watched too many re-runs of Flipper when you were a lad. I think I will take Bawdy's advice and just quit reading your bad attempts at science fiction prose.


According to me?!
Are you saying this because I wrote that's a theory on anthropologist and other quarters about human evolving along the water and eating fish?
Did I say I made that theory? Did I say I agree with that theory?
speechless
It's funny you take the time to criticize other's fanatism, since you're a sure winner in that category

David
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Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 22:45
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Bobi-p Bobi-p is offline
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theBear, Frederick and Dean... We all feel great on this way of eating. Most of us have preferentially done this for several years with slight deviations when the PC nutritionists got to us, with the exception of you, theBear. So...I am sure we will continue on. I think this is a great discussion. I discard what I don't like and continue to enjoy the thread. Let's just keep it up. The only carbs I am taking in are the cream in my coffee, the coffee itself, and the eggs. I no longer care what anybody else thinks, and they pretty much don't ask me anymore. AMEN!
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Old Sat, Mar-25-06, 00:29
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PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davideb
speechless
As Bobi said... AMEN!
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  #895   ^
Old Sat, Mar-25-06, 08:53
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TwilightZ TwilightZ is offline
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Bear,

How is your vision and eye health?
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Old Sat, Mar-25-06, 09:40
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CharmedOne CharmedOne is offline
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I'm sorry, I have skipped a few posts in my eagerness to thank Bear for posting his views.

I find this very interesting to read and I totally get what you are saying, you are quite clear.

I am a vegtable lover, but not from birth, my family never fed us veggies..but we did eat trashy carbs. I did however always think that veggies were 'good' for you...now I do love them, particularly smothered in cheese or butter.

I have a question and I apologise if this has been mentioned. A few months ago I was watching Oprah and a doctor on there mentioned that MEAT cannot be digested in the body, but must ROT before it is expelled, and why we need to eat roughage to help it along. The rotting can take months.
Well, immediately upon hearing that I knew something was not right, as the amount of meat I have eaten on Atkins in the past would have me at 500lbs in a month ;-) So where did a DOCTOR get this information?

Perhaps there is another who remembers the show I am talking about, clearer than I...perhaps there was even a thread on here about it, I have been away for a long time.

Please forgive me if this has already been mentioned!
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