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  #673   ^
Old Tue, Mar-14-06, 22:27
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
Perhaps this is one reason why dogs were better able (and willing) than cats to adapt to us as our diet changed.
That, and of course, as my cat theory of human evolution has clearly pointed out... cats have no interest in adapting to anybody or anything. They are on the top of both the food chain and evolution of this planet's life forms, and therefore won't (and shouldn't) change anything about their absolute perfection.

And this is "straight from the (my) cats' mouths"!

Last edited by PaleoDeano : Tue, Mar-14-06 at 22:33.
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  #674   ^
Old Tue, Mar-14-06, 23:59
theBear theBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 311
 
Plan: zero-carb
Stats: 140/140/140 Male 5'6"
BF:
Progress:
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I think I am wasting valuable communication time attempting to answer irrelevant questions. I am going to stick to the human diet and what I have experienced as true about it, and the short term and long term effects of what we eat.

(In passing, I do not accept the unannotated lifespans listed on any of the website references, my information- differs. It is a salient fact that there are websites galore on the web which will support literally any idea you can conceive of. So what? Why do you have any interest in various diet regimes- if you are only interested in supporting your own ideas and trashing those which do not fit in with it?)

I live in the present day world. I pay little regard for people whose only goal is to try to duplicate their idea of what the (unknowable) diets of extinct, prehistoric people might have been, or in comparing the highly evolved human body of today with various other species of animal.

Not one person who has posted to this thread has had more than a relatively short time on whatever dietary routine they are following.

I have lived on mine far longer than many people will live for their entire lives. I am a walking, living proof of the efficacy of a totally carnivorous diet and its relationship to ideal body condition and health.

I am trying to share this built-on-stone information, but some days it seems like I am trying to walk into the face of a windstorm.

Skeptics and contrarians: Please pay close attention- I said in the beginning that most readers will never accept and adopt a diet by simply using their mind and intelligence. It will seem for years to be somehow 'not right'. This is because your dietary habits and preferences have been socially 'prewired' in your mind, deep down, in childhood, along with all the things we must learn about our culture and the right way to live as a human being in our society. Socialisation overwrites and suppresses instinct at the instinctual level. It is hard to alter, trust me. I am offering living proof that the payoff from a successful attempt to alter it is worth the effort it takes.

If you prove to be a unique person with a high degree of self-control and a strong drive to alter the shape of your body and the state of your health, I can show the path. Neither I nor anyone else can keep you on it, that is something you and only you can do.

In many cases the ultimate diet format I talk about will not be necessary to achieve an acceptable change, but there are vast side-benefits along my path which remain hidden for a very long time before becoming apparent.

I noticed many years ago that I did not seem to be aging much, and that my body, as I got older began to look a lot different from everyone else my age that I met, no matter whether they were into fitness or just had a good body size and shape naturally. In all cases I began to pull away, and it slowly dawned on me that virtually all the 'standard changes of age' I had accepted as a natural and normal product of simply getting older were not showing up.

So I felt I had a kind of 'obligation' to let other people know about it, hence the essay on my site, and now- my participation in this thread. My approach is to treat the body as a 'black box'. It is an empirical, not cognitive process: If you input this, you can show the output is that, if you change the input, the output changes also. On this basis, you do not have to find out and define what is inside the 'black box' of your body to be able to discover and follow good nutritional practice any more than you need to know how an internal combustion engine works to drive as well as a race car champion.

Understanding and eliminating diet-connected damage and the aging effects it causes IS important, but whether or not cats live longer than rabbits, is not. The fact that our teeth can last longer than we do if diet is correct has nothing to do with what the origins of our dentition can be shown to be- the fact can be demonstrated.

I hope I am making myself clear, as it is very frustrating to try to deal with a lot of unnecessary stuff. We want to see and appreciate the forest- not look too closely at only a few trees. I want to use my precious online time constructively (I live in deep bushland have a lot of work each day). I tend to react- or, if I ignore some posts I feel are completely irrelevant, the respondents then accuse me of avoiding the issues! I feel some 'issues' are non-issues with respect to the direction taken. I am sorry if this bothers anyone, I am enjoying most of that is going on, immensely.
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  #675   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 00:00
LadyArya's Avatar
LadyArya LadyArya is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 640
 
Plan: No one plan
Stats: 208.5/180.5/150 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 48%
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
Anyone with tooth problems should act at once to fix the problem. Modern dentistry is essentially painless, a good dentist is a good friend. The state of your health is directly connected with them. Teeth are 'limbs'- independent like, say, fingers- with their own blood supply and nerves. Each one is treated by the body as important- trust me, even a wisdom tooth is a good one, and should be looked after. Dentists as a rule consider wisdom teeth as 'expendable'- and want to pull them out (they frighten people with the term 'impacted' which sounds bad but really only means 'not completely erupted through the gum. The covering gum can be trimmed away to fully expose the tooth in most cases. Some people may have mouths too small for all 32 teeth, and to keep them in line and functioning, some or all of the last molars have to go, unfortunately. I had to insist to my dentist that mine be given restoration for the caries I developed as a carb-consuming teen- so I could keep them. One of them has never erupted and is still completely covered with gum- I like to think of it as a 'spare'. I have a functioning tooth in every other location. I have had no caries in 47 years.


I agree... and I finally sucked up my fear and went to the dentist today. Of course, it took me waking up with a fever to actually do anything about it. (I know I know... but dentists *really* scare me )

Unfortunately, they have to take out this one wisdom tooth because after it came in, it turned... so now the bottom points of the molar are digging into my cheek every time I speak/eat/breathe/sleep. Dentist filed down the points a bit so it would stop cutting me, put me on antibiotics for a week, and will be pulling out the tooth next tuesday.

But she is impressed with the state of my other three wisdom teeth and agreed with me that I should keep them unless they cause a problem. So seems both my dentist and I agree with you on this one Bear.
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  #676   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 01:27
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
I think I am wasting valuable communication time attempting to answer irrelevant questions. I am going to stick to the human diet and what I have experienced as true about it, and the short term and long term effects of what we eat.
I agree that you should ignore those that want to side track you into other issues. You have posted a lot of things, and a lot of people are trying to pick at everything you state. But, you can and should simply ignore those "challenges" (we'll call them) which you don't want to answer. And, don't worry about people attacking you for not answering or accusing you of ignoring them. Just let it go. You don't owe anyone any answers. This is just a discussion forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
If you prove to be a unique person with a high degree of self-control and a strong drive to alter the shape of your body and the state of your health, I can show the path. Neither I nor anyone else can keep you on it, that is something you and only you can do.
Does this mean you want to discuss ways to stay on this path, rather than argue the merit of this path? I think there are those that would like to know how best to stay on this path. Since you obviously have the longest experience in doing so, you would be a good one to ask.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
In many cases the ultimate diet format I talk about will not be necessary to achieve an acceptable change
Just how drastic a change do you think one needs to make in order to see appreciable benefits?
Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
I want to use my precious online time constructively
One thing you might consider is to just "jump off" this thread, and start up another one, with whatever issues you want to discuss. That is how it works around here... happens all the time. Or, at least make that clear in a post on this thread... which I guess you are doing with this last post of yours. I am wondering, though, what it is you DO want to discuss. The reason I suggest starting another thread, is you can "narrow" the focus of what you want to discuss that way. It's really up to you.

I think this thread will continue, either way, since there are lots of people who want to argue what the "real human diet" is. That is one of the reasons for the whole "paleo diet" in the first place. Anyway, this thread will continue... trust me... you started something that is just "too controversial" to go away that quickly. And, I guess lots of threads can get a little "wide" with various related topics. But, you are more than welcome to "bow out", start another thread, or simply "lay down the law" on what you want to talk about.

I will say I am thankful for the input you have given to this forum, no matter how "controversial" it has been.

Last edited by PaleoDeano : Wed, Mar-15-06 at 01:47.
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  #677   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 05:46
Paleoanth's Avatar
Paleoanth Paleoanth is offline
Slothy Superhero
Posts: 12,159
 
Plan: Vegetarian Atkins
Stats: 165/145/125 Female 60 inches
BF:29/25.2/24
Progress: 50%
Location: Tennessee/Iowa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
I think I am wasting valuable communication time attempting to answer irrelevant questions.


You know what? You are right. I am wasting my valuable time too. I can see that your purpose here on this forum is not to learn or to have a dialogue, but to gather disciples. That is fine. I am going to just bow out of this thread completely. Then you can be free to post anything you want about human evolution and/or our place in nature without any kind of reference whatsoever and make completely untrue statements without the bother of anyone questioning you. I'll be happier and I am sure you and your followers will be too.
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  #678   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 07:20
Frederick's Avatar
Frederick Frederick is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,512
 
Plan: Atkins - Maintenance
Stats: 185/150/150 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Northern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paleoanth
You know what? You are right. I am wasting my valuable time too. I can see that your purpose here on this forum is not to learn or to have a dialogue, but to gather disciples......I'll be happier and I am sure you and your followers will be too.


Hahaha...I gather that you sense an air of cultishness in our midst?
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  #679   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 07:37
Rob21370's Avatar
Rob21370 Rob21370 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 225
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 336/297/140 Male 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 20%
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaleoDeano
I agree that you should ignore those that want to side track you into other issues. You have posted a lot of things, and a lot of people are trying to pick at everything you state. But, you can and should simply ignore those "challenges" (we'll call them) which you don't want to answer. And, don't worry about people attacking you for not answering or accusing you of ignoring them. Just let it go. You don't owe anyone any answers. This is just a discussion forum.Does this mean you want to discuss ways to stay on this path, rather than argue the merit of this path? I think there are those that would like to know how best to stay on this path. Since you obviously have the longest experience in doing so, you would be a good one to ask.Just how drastic a change do you think one needs to make in order to see appreciable benefits?One thing you might consider is to just "jump off" this thread, and start up another one, with whatever issues you want to discuss. That is how it works around here... happens all the time. Or, at least make that clear in a post on this thread... which I guess you are doing with this last post of yours. I am wondering, though, what it is you DO want to discuss. The reason I suggest starting another thread, is you can "narrow" the focus of what you want to discuss that way. It's really up to you.

I think this thread will continue, either way, since there are lots of people who want to argue what the "real human diet" is. That is one of the reasons for the whole "paleo diet" in the first place. Anyway, this thread will continue... trust me... you started something that is just "too controversial" to go away that quickly. And, I guess lots of threads can get a little "wide" with various related topics. But, you are more than welcome to "bow out", start another thread, or simply "lay down the law" on what you want to talk about.

I will say I am thankful for the input you have given to this forum, no matter how "controversial" it has been.


Nice post Deano, my sentiments exactly. The only time I was really successful on the diet is when I was getting advice from Bear. My problem was was that I was getting the great advice and then essentially doing a modified Atkins/Protein Power diet and never made the break from veggies/low carb starches and products. His advice was superb nonetheless and really helped me remain focused on the diet.

That was why I contacted him again this time. Nobody can keep me on the path but myself, but, at least for me, I need support and help, especially after I LOSE the weight. That's when I'm most motivated, when I'm at my fattest. If people want to knock Bear's posts to score debate points, more power to them, but the man has been eating this way for 47 fricking years! I wanna know what he has to say on how and why he's been able to do it.

I look up at the thread location and see it's under "daily low-carb support". That's what I'm here for, to stay in contact with other people on an all-meat diet so that I can remain focused and get insights and tips. So far it's only been 3 weeks on meat/eggs/cheese but I know at some point I'll need support because to think I've mentally conquered my mind about eating this way in that time is the path to failure.

One thing is for certain though, and that is that I'm absolutely sick and tired of the flab and the immobility and poor health. I hate it and I can't continue being this heavy.
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  #680   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 08:03
Rob21370's Avatar
Rob21370 Rob21370 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 225
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 336/297/140 Male 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 20%
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederick
Hahaha...I gather that you sense an air of cultishness in our midst?


Yes, just where do these Atkins people come from?
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  #681   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 09:35
Hellistile's Avatar
Hellistile Hellistile is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,540
 
Plan: Animal-based/IF
Stats: 252/215.6/130 Female 5'4
BF:
Progress: 30%
Location: Vancouver Island
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Please correct me if I'm wrong (since both Protein Power and Protein Power Lifeplan are in other hands at the moment), but didn't the Drs. Eades state that only fats and proteins were essential for life and that carbohydrates are completely non-essential. So why would we need vegetables?
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  #682   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 09:39
ItsTheWooo's Avatar
ItsTheWooo ItsTheWooo is offline
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Posts: 4,815
 
Plan: My Own
Stats: 280/118/117.5 Female 5ft 5.25 in
BF:
Progress: 100%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellistile
Please correct me if I'm wrong (since both Protein Power and Protein Power Lifeplan are in other hands at the moment, but didn't the Drs. Eades state that only fats and proteins were essential for life and that carbohydrates are completely non-essential. So why would we need vegetables?

Thebear is not arguing the healthfulness of a carnivorous diet (which, I have concluded, it probably is for at least some people with high metabolic needs). He is insisting eating any way BUT similar to how he eats is unhealthy and unnatural.
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  #683   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 10:47
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TwilightZ TwilightZ is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 359
 
Plan: meat and meat by-products
Stats: 270/191/150 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 66%
Location: TwilightZone (Phila, PA)
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Bear,

I've been intrigued all along by your story and have been convinced along with my wife to try going zero-carb. In just a few days, some of the results you claim, such as not being hungry and having more energy are already manifesting themselves. We are open to new ideas and experimentation.

But what you're saying is, "Don't to waste time questioning me--accept what I have told you as gospel because 47 years of living this way has essentially proven me to be correct on every subject. And although I may claim that sources you read are false, all of the sources I have used to verify my information are absolutely true beyond a shadow of a doubt." The people on this board are interested in the truth, but because there are so many out there who claim to know have a monopoly on it, we need to have verification. When you make claims such as yours, you have to expect scrutiny.
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  #684   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 12:04
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JandLsMom JandLsMom is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,719
 
Plan: atkins induction
Stats: 330/330/165 Female 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: Illinois
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Ok..i started my meat and eggs fast today!! We'll see how long i last..lol. But i figure, i gotta try it and see what it does for me. i am eating only meat, fish, poultry, eggs, butter, mayo and 1-2 cups of coffee with a splash of cream per day! I'll let ya'll know how it goes. My weigh in this morning for week 3 of induction was 3 lbs lost. I have lost 15 lbs in 3 weeks on induction..i am hoping this meat and egg fast will take off atleast 5 lbs this week..we'll see !!
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  #685   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 12:16
prairiegal prairiegal is offline
New Member
Posts: 8
 
Plan: meat and eggs
Stats: 174/143/130 Female 62.5
BF:26
Progress: 70%
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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Bear

I thank you from the bottom of my heart. I have eaten only meat, eggs and cheese for most of my life. However I have constantly but drawn back into eating carbs mostly vegetable because they are good for me by my loving family. I have never been sure and certainly did not think that they were right because I have always felt better when I eat mostly protein and fat. I have always loved the fat on the meat and would even clean off other family members fat. If I start to eat any sort of carbs even vegetables I develop a terrible sweet tooth. You, by going against the grain have made probably not only my life but also the lives of many other people much easier.

I appreciate the fact that you have had and I guess still are having to deal with those people that do not subscribe to this way of eating. You have proved to me and probably to most others that you really can live without vegetables and not be sickly or die a slow and horrible death.

Again, I thank you. By the way, I am 62 years old and in excellent health.
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  #686   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 12:49
lynnp's Avatar
lynnp lynnp is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 4,072
 
Plan: My Version of M/E
Stats: 284/000/140 Female 65 inches
BF:54%/49.5%/25%
Progress: 197%
Location: Rhode Island
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prairiegal
If I start to eat any sort of carbs even vegetables I develop a terrible sweet tooth.


I am exactly the same way. Even cheese is a trigger for me. I am switching back to the only thing that has ever been successful for me, meat, fat and eggs.
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  #687   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 13:04
Wyvrn's Avatar
Wyvrn Wyvrn is offline
Dog is my copilot
Posts: 1,448
 
Plan: paleo/lowcarb
Stats: 210/162/145 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 74%
Location: Olympia, WA
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thebear, you may have been on a VLC diet for longer than most of us (I think Duparc has been VLC quite a long time as well, where are you Duparc?) but you may not realize that prior to your entrance on this forum, a number of us had already discovered much the same for ourselves.

To be blunt - you have a tendency to engage in ad-hominem attacks against those who disagree with you (for example, accusing people of poor reading comprehension), but perhaps if you take the time to read what others have to say on the Paleo forum, you will see that while there are exceptions here and there, the general tone here is one of respect. IMO the controversy is due to your writing style, because as far as your diet goes, I think you are mostly preaching to the choir.

Another thing - to state that because you have been on VLC a long time and are healthy is a data point, but no more significant than those of us who adopted VLC decades later in life after incurring much more metabolic damage than you did - as you started quite young - yet many of us have been able to reverse much of the damage within a relatively short time.

PaleoAnth - please don't leave. I for one appreciate the knowledge - well supported by links to research - that you bring to this forum, not to mention your ability to return courtesy for rudeness. Anyone who has bothered to read your posts around the forums would realize that vegetarian or not, you are one of the most objective and rational posters around here.

Wyv
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  #688   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 13:07
dina1957 dina1957 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,854
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 194/000/150 Female 5'5"
BF:Not sure
Progress: 441%
Location: Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvest
I'll post info about cooking tongue in the recipe thread.

I cook it twice: first in just water without seasoning, then I peel the outer skin when it start to loosen up, and then I change the water, add onions, carrots, celery, bay leave, whatever seasoning you prefer, and cook the tongue until it's well done. After that you can serve it in dozen different ways: cold with horse radish, hot with bushroom gravy, even pickled with dil and garlic. I like it cold with carlic sauce and good old pickled veggies on the side. Oops, I forgot veggies are out.
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  #689   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 14:41
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dina1957
Oops, I forgot veggies are out.
Glad you caught that! It saves me from having to point it out to you.

Let's all keep to the sacred (secret) vows we have sworn, and not sway from the righteous paths we are on.

As one disciple to another... I bid you all good carnivorous health.

Jeez... this really IS a religion!

And I thought "cat worship" was strange...

Last edited by PaleoDeano : Wed, Mar-15-06 at 15:46.
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  #690   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 15:37
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is online now
Posts: 7,324
 
Plan: IF & Keto
Stats: 205/193/170 Female 5'6
BF:Too much!
Progress: 34%
Location: Rural Maine
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If veggies are so good for you, why is it that in our culture, we refer to people who are brain dead (or those we just THINK are) as "vegetables," and why do we refer to the act of lounging on the couch doing nothing but getting fat "vegging out"?
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  #691   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 15:48
Fauve Fauve is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,147
 
Plan: Carnivore
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 63
BF:
Progress: 94%
Location: Victoria, BC
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I, for one, would love to have some guidance from you, Bear. I am now on my 3rd week of this carnivore diet, and I have a few questions.

1. How do I learn to eat red meat again?
I have all but forgotten how to eat red meat. In the last fifteen years, I have gradually replaced it with chicken and salmon, deemed better for my health. I used to love red meat, and it came as a shock to me when it did not taste as good as I remembered, especially the fat. I can't eat the fat anymore. How do I learn to like it again? Is is even necessary for me to eat the fat? Can't I just eat the lean meat with lots of butter?

2. Is green tea good for us?
I used to be an avid coffee drinker, but after my adrenals collapsed, I was advised to forget about coffee. I started drinking green tea because of the good antioxidants. Don't laugh!

3. How much exercise?
Now Bear, remember that I am 58 and that I have been fairly inactive for the last fifteen years (when I collapsed with CFS).
I do one-hour walks most days, and I just started lifting weights at your suggestion. Baby weights and 30 minutes workouts every other day.
Is it ok as a beginning? Do you have any other suggestion?

I will be very thankful for your time and your suggestions.
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  #692   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 16:10
ChicknLady's Avatar
ChicknLady ChicknLady is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,046
 
Plan: Low carb
Stats: 153/150/140 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 23%
Location: Pennsylvania
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Hi Bear. Just wanted to say a quick "thankyou' for joining this forum, and for sharing your 47 years worth of experience to us relative "newbies" here to your way of eating. Please keep posting, because you've really struck a chord here with alot of people, and opened alot of eyes.
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  #693   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 16:15
theBear theBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 311
 
Plan: zero-carb
Stats: 140/140/140 Male 5'6"
BF:
Progress:
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Yes, I am interested in seeing if, by holding this discussion, I can help other people who have naturally heavy constitutions find a way around their acculturation.

Reality checks are very useful.

Anyone who assumes I am not stating most emphatically that the all meat diet is the healthiest way a human can nourish the body has obviously got some sort of mental block going (i.e.: "... not arguing the healthfulness of a carnivorous diet..."). To this I say: Pay better attention. The term 'unnatural' is meaningless with regard to diet which is cultural, and therefore whatever is taught to be considered as food is perfectly 'natural' to humans- we ARE our culture. If it was not unhealthy this forum would not exist.

Five pounds of bodyfat? This represents ~20,000 calories. if you eat nothing at all (total water only fast), and burn a normal 2500 cal/day (17,500,/wk) you will drop 4.5 pounds of pure fat, and the rest of your loss would be water and some lean muscle mass. If you are eating high fat, then a loss of 2-3 pounds of actual bodyfat is a very good result. If your scale says you lost five, then you are showing some water retention loss. I have mentioned that salt interferes with fat metabolism- it also causes water retention and is hard on both the kidneys and the skin. Commercial mayo contains both high salt and bad (unsat) oils.

Body fat mass is not 100% fat- it is a living and very active tissue. I have a study in my (misplaced) cache wherein tests were done that indicate high body fat mass suppresses thyroid by means of a so far unidentified messenger, rather than a low thyroid causing fatness.

Skin aging is a result of three factors: Due to the multiple function of our outermost surface cover, Many things pass through it- oxygen is absorbed and carbon dioxide released, excess salt and many other substances are shed via sweat (sweating is good). In this regard the skin is like both a lung and a kidney. This is why you should bathe often (not necessarily with soap) to keep the skin permeable, avoid spending too much time in air conditioned places, and not ingest any extra salt. Salt is hard on the pores and ages skin. Insulin damages collagen and is the cause of stretch marks, wrinkles and sagging. Too much sun may induce skin cancers in susceptible individuals, reduces flexibility and also damages collagen.

Superstitious religions are also taught to the very young, so the illogic of religion is buried so deeply that science training- which conflicts with every 'faith'- has little or no effect. It is even true that there are some fine scientists who can actually proclaim themselves to be "Christians" without blushing- even though it is totally anomalous. So, do not play down or underestimate the enormous power of acculturation to override logic and intelligence. A dialect spoken during childhood and adolescence is usually kept always, even after moving to a place where a radically different dialect is spoken. Diet is the same.

This is not to say that a way cannot be found to deal with acculturation, and that is what all this is about- finding that way. I did it but I cannot figure out how and why I managed when others seemingly cannot.

My statements may seem didactic, but that is just my 'way of speaking', it does not mean that I think everything I say is an absolute. I try to keep to what I have experienced, but like everyone else, I instinctively look for an explanation.

Last edited by theBear : Wed, Mar-15-06 at 16:18. Reason: spelling
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  #694   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 16:56
theBear theBear is offline
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Red meat should be fresh, never been frozen, well marbled and only cooked very little on the outside in a hot skillet with melted fat of the same kind. Fat is naturally delicious if fresh, but nasty if it gets old before cooking. Garlic and other spices may be used, but just plain meat should tasted wonderful.

The fat on red meat as well as the lean is about the best nutrition you can find. I do not understand how a person could ever 'lose the taste for', or 'forget how to eat', red meat. My wife was a vegetarian for 11 years when I met her, but on smelling my steak at dinner on our first date, she asked for a bite, and loved it.

I cannot comment on green tea, considered by many to be a panacea. I generally like anything with caffeine in it. I don't think coffee is hard on the adrenals, but you do lose tolerance for it as you age. Nowadays I only drink one cup, early in the morning. If I need or want a little boost later I use NoDoz.

Exercise:

It is not optimum (at any age) to perform heavy exercises more than one, or a max of two days a week. At 58 you simply must take enough time to recover from each workout so you can become stronger and more fit. Walking burns calories, but does nothing much for aerobic fitness- ride a bike (stationary or free ride) or run for that. Best to do it on the same day, and just before your weight training. Do only your normal activities during the days off. I began lifting for the first time on the day after my 55th birthday, and tried all the different routines, eliminating most until I found what works best. I have 16 years of training experience now, and I think I know pretty well how an older body should best be trained. There is no upper limit on age to train, everyone will benefit from performing concentrated exercise. Naturally the younger you start, the easier it will be- and the health benefits may be greater in the long term.

Gradually increase the weight as you gain strength. I.e., if after ten reps, you can do some more, increase the weight a bit until 7 or 8 is all you can finish. The idea is to get stronger, and the body is essentially very conservative, not adding any more muscular strength than is necessary, so you must challenge your body to get the best value for your effort. Do not do any exercise which hurts during its performance, although it is to be expected that you will have a little (not very unpleasant) muscle soreness for the next day or two. Exercise causes some micro-damage, which stimulates the muscle. Remember to stretch once you have warmed up- this is very important. After working out for several months this soreness will become almost unnoticeable.

Last edited by theBear : Wed, Mar-15-06 at 16:57. Reason: spell.
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  #695   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 17:13
theBear theBear is offline
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Oh, and keep your workouts brief- do only three sets of one exercise for each body part. It helps to have a book so you know the proper form for each exercise- like Gold's Gym or Arnold Swartzenegger's bodybuilding books. Bill Pearl's 'Keys to the Kingdom' is definitely over the top, but has every exercise variation anyone ever dreamt up in it. You do not need a lot of variation, stick to what works. Work into it gradually. Start with one set of each exercise for a couple or three weeks, then move up to two sets. After a couple of months go to three. You will need patience, it takes some time to SEE the results, although you will start to feel great very quickly. Remember- exercise will not make you thin, only a proper diet can do that.
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  #696   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 18:00
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ItsTheWooo ItsTheWooo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BawdyWench
If veggies are so good for you, why is it that in our culture, we refer to people who are brain dead (or those we just THINK are) as "vegetables," and why do we refer to the act of lounging on the couch doing nothing but getting fat "vegging out"?

I don't know if you were joking or not (it's hard to pick up subtle sarcasm online ) so I apologize if this sounds ridiculously robot-like in it's lack of humor. The cultural slang use of the word vegetable to imply unconscious states (tv watching/coma) comes from the fact that plant life is capable of little to no environmental awareness (perception). Therefore, a human who is rendered less conscious by disease or leasure activity can be considered a vegetable or vegging out.
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  #697   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 18:03
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BawdyWench BawdyWench is online now
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Yup, trying to be funny, but also just curious why these expressions would be in our culture if vegetables were believed to be good for you.

Why not "meating out" or "he's a T-bone." Granted, we do have "meat-head," but nothing else.

Both curious and funny.
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  #698   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 18:32
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Wyvrn Wyvrn is offline
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People are also called pig and cow, it's never a compliment.

Wyv
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  #699   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 18:33
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ItsTheWooo ItsTheWooo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
Anyone who assumes I am not stating most emphatically that the all meat diet is the healthiest way a human can nourish the body has obviously got some sort of mental block going (i.e.: "... not arguing the healthfulness of a carnivorous diet..."). To this I say: Pay better attention. The term 'unnatural' is meaningless with regard to diet which is cultural, and therefore whatever is taught to be considered as food is perfectly 'natural' to humans- we ARE our culture. If it was not unhealthy this forum would not exist.

You really should make sure you understand what a person is saying before you go and belittling them for a lack of reading comprehension (and then, ironically, tell them to pay attention).

I was explaining to hellistile that your position is more anti than it is pro. You are not here to tell us that eating animal meat and fat - veggies optional - is one of many healthy ways to live. If this were your message (pro your way of life) I don't think this thread would be almost 50 pages of arguments. You are here to tell us that eating animal meat and fat is the only healthy way to live; you are telling us veggies are harmful and not better than many other harmful substances.

Quote:
Superstitious religions are also taught to the very young, so the illogic of religion is buried so deeply that science training- which conflicts with every 'faith'- has little or no effect. It is even true that there are some fine scientists who can actually proclaim themselves to be "Christians" without blushing- even though it is totally anomalous. So, do not play down or underestimate the enormous power of acculturation to override logic and intelligence.

While possessing faith itself is not logical and scientific, the existence of faith in a person does not necessarily make that person illogical and unscientific. This is because your faith system can exist along side a respect for what you see and know. As long as a faith system (christianity for example) does not conflict with observed facts and logical reality (science), there is nothing illogical or unscientific about a christian scientist.

If anyone here is behaving illogically and irrationally it is you. You speak of logic and science and fact but so far your proof comes down to this:

I say I'm really intelligent. I say I've been eating this way a long time. I say I'm healthy.
Therefore all of my statements are automatically correct and do not require substantiation. Everyone who disagrees with me is illogical.


Correct me if I am wrong, but it is not logical to form an argument with "because I said so" as the exclusive piece of evidence. Yet this is what you have done fron the inception of this thread. You are using your self-proclaimed intelligence, age, length of dieting and health as the sole piece of evidence to flesh out your statements and make them at all substantial.
Even if we assume you are correct in your perceptions of yourself (or, alternately, not lying)... this has nothing to do with the logical validity of your claims.
One would need to possess a certain faith in you for your claims to mean anything at all simply because you say them.

... Having established this, wouldn't it be correct to say you are expecting people to have faith in you to substantiate your claims? Wouldn't it be correct to say your entire argument is not rational by extension?
How ironic, considering how you claim it is a fundamental lack of logic (intelligence and/or acculturation) that leads others to not agree with you.

The only way you can even claim to be arguing logically is if we assume you are afflicted with a massively inflated ego, to the point where you are no longer capable of accurately perceiving reality (i.e. you cannot understand you are not supreme, unique or divinely special, so you cannot understand your statements are not fact simply because you say they are). Even though your argument would still be invalid, at least it would explain why you could not see this.

So the question I have for you bear is this. Are you just committing a simple logical error, or, are you just a tremendous narcissist?
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  #700   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 18:34
theBear theBear is offline
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bawd, The slang is derived from a plant (vegetable) being a passive-living entity, with no ego or the ability/need to move around. It has nothing to do with diet.
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