Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low-Carb Studies & Research / Media Watch > Low-Carb War Zone
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #617   ^
Old Mon, Mar-13-06, 02:09
theBear theBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 311
 
Plan: zero-carb
Stats: 140/140/140 Male 5'6"
BF:
Progress:
Default

OK.

My lovely wife is nearly 17 years younger than I am.

At my age that is a significant difference. Over the years we have been together her diet has made a large accommodation, and is still slowly changing. She has gained bodyfat, true, but is still far slimmer than the average women her age. Perhaps the gain is due to her liking of pasta and rice. Nowadays she only very seldom indulges. She eats squash and a few other high carb veggies sometimes. She also likes pawpaws (papaya) and other fattening fruits. She always eats some sort of salad with her meals. She likes eggs and eats more cheese than I do. She makes wicked egg salad and chicken salad, but puts celery in both, which I have to pick out- (no carbs, but I think it tastes awful). She is like me in her love of exercise and that may help her health.

I am not in the least interested in the food she likes, so I don't pay any attention to it in the fridge, even after smoking a doobie.

I only seldom say anything any more about what she eats unless I think it extremely carby. Fortunately she has a very good HRT formula which is based on the human estradiol rather than that dangerous pregnant mare's piss-derived one used in that interrupted study. The many estrogens found in other animals like horses, are not found in humans and like any alien hormone either have the wrong actions or have other added actions you may not want. Carbs/insulin is very artery damaging, but the normal female estrogen level seems to give excellent protection, why I have no idea, but I do know that as we evolved women simply never lived long enough to reach menopause.

Other animals can breed as long as they live, and once we could too- but now we live far longer than our bodies have evolved to handle in many ways. Of course estrogen also maintains the sex drive and vaginal lubricity as well as bone density. Even males need enough estrogen (which can be made from testosterone) to build and maintain bone density. I do not know how she will fare in the years to come... I would be far more comfortable if she ate like I do, but I am a realist on diet. She admits my diet is very good and is perhaps the best, but is strongly accustomed to her ways. I am always quite surprised when anyone can manage on it for long enough to make it their own.

Food for humanity: Fewer people would mean room for more food-animals a balanced ocean, land in grasses and trees, water which is abundant and clean. Clean air.

Yes, the truth about diet will out if only you can manage to center yourself and quiet down all that socially induced 'noise'.

A little bit of dissembling:

We are the eaters of cows, and we must NOT eat their food. That is the way of Gaia, the Conscious Planet who has placed us at the very pinnacle of the food-chain-eco-pyramid which is very small at the top. If we had remained where we belonged, rather than stepping down a level or two, not only would we live well and enjoy good health, but there would only be as many of us as the world can support. There would be no crowded struggling cities filled with the desperately poor, no pollution and no destruction of the ecosystem. The planet cannot carry us at the present population level, it is rapidly failing. The worst, most disastrous move we have made, worse even than the wide spread havoc caused by our uptake of the fundamental superstitious religions, is the consumption of vegetation. It has allowed us to infest the planet like ten thousand fleas on a Chihuahua. At least that is how I view it. 5 million, or up to 10 million, maybe- but no more is a good human population level, NOT six thousand million.
Reply With Quote
  #618   ^
Old Mon, Mar-13-06, 06:28
lynnp's Avatar
lynnp lynnp is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 4,072
 
Plan: My Version of M/E
Stats: 284/000/140 Female 65 inches
BF:54%/49.5%/25%
Progress: 197%
Location: Rhode Island
Default

That last paragragh is very thought provoking Bear. Thank you. I have to say for me, I tend to prefer animals for company over humans 99% of the time. I find that animals are not intentionally cruel or hold many of the other unfavorable traits that modern humans seem to overflow with...just my opinion. Humans could learn a lot from the lives of animals.
Reply With Quote
  #619   ^
Old Mon, Mar-13-06, 07:44
LOOPS's Avatar
LOOPS LOOPS is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,089
 
Plan: simple HFLC <30g
Stats: 74/72/62 Female 5ft 6.5 inches
BF:29%/27%/24%
Progress: 17%
Location: LA SERENA, CHILE
Default

Bear -

chillies are very high in vitamin C.
Reply With Quote
  #620   ^
Old Mon, Mar-13-06, 07:52
LOOPS's Avatar
LOOPS LOOPS is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,089
 
Plan: simple HFLC <30g
Stats: 74/72/62 Female 5ft 6.5 inches
BF:29%/27%/24%
Progress: 17%
Location: LA SERENA, CHILE
Default

sorry - that was a bit of a random comment.
Reply With Quote
  #621   ^
Old Mon, Mar-13-06, 08:38
Meg_S Meg_S is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 2,276
 
Plan: lots of meat
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 5 10"
BF:goal: 17%
Progress: 41%
Location: Germany (Canadian abroad)
Default

this is just anecdotal. There has only been ONE time in my life where I felt.. and this sounds so cliche, I'm sorry ... free from my obsession with food, my cravings etc. and where I felt unbelivably and incredibly happy, and I could sleep, and felt smart... just GOOD. Anyway I was eating ONLY raw meat, raw milk, raw egg yolks.. raw coconut(only a little) and sometiems some raw tomatos or other veggies but the mainstay was raw meat and fat, with sometimes some cooked meat. Occasionally I'd eat bread in olive oil but that was rare. That was the best time in my life, and I stopped when I got pregnant because I was new to that way of eating and it scared the shit out of my husband and I wasn't "sure" of myself or things. At every other point in my life I was consumed mentally with food, I've always wondered what was wrong with me and I think I was just eating (am just eating) things that are unhealthy and unnecessary for my particular body and that is setting up cravings. Gotta cut this short, baby demanding some milk
Reply With Quote
  #622   ^
Old Mon, Mar-13-06, 09:28
TwilightZ's Avatar
TwilightZ TwilightZ is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 359
 
Plan: meat and meat by-products
Stats: 270/191/150 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 66%
Location: TwilightZone (Phila, PA)
Default

Bear,

I have read all of your posts from the beginning as well as the essays on your website, so I won't waste your time. I have some questions which you did not address.

1. If all carbohydrates are essentially "poison," and if insulin is very damaging to the tissues in the body, then why do you think the mechanism exists in the first place? Why would the pancreas produce something as damaging as insulin? Why doesn't the body simply pass carbs without attempting to digest them? My observations have been that when the body itself is responsible for an undesirable effect, it's the result of the body's attempt to correct a problem, e.g. laying down of plaque in arteries to repair damage. What problem does the body think is occurring in tissues, which the damaging properties of insulin are supposed to correct?

2. On one hand you recommend removing the amalgam from your teeth, and then you suggest injecting the mercury back into your body in the form of flu shots? Were you aware that many vaccines contain mercury as well as lots of other nasty substances? Incidentally I am a dentist--I have removed amalgams from patients and about 50% notice a change.

3. You state emphatically that no cancer of any kind is diet or nutritionally related. Is that simply your conclusion based on the fact that your diet has led to otherwise excellent health? Are you aware of the fact that in the presence of glucose, cells in the body de-differentiate into cancer cells? And that this has been demonstrated repeatedly? And that in people with cancer, when carbs are totally removed from the diet, their cancers have disappeared. It's doubtless that there are certainly other contributing factors, but to claim that diet has no bearing is to disregard fact.

You state that you have smoked and are clearly still smoking pot. It never entered your mind that that could have been a contributing factor in your throat cancer?

4. The argument that an infant or child's acceptance or rejection of food is a determinant of whether it is appropriate for human consumption seems flawed to me. Are you saying that the first time sweets are introduced, whether fruit or candy, an infant or child will reject them? That people have no natural desire or craving for sweet things?

If you claim to have no desire for sweet things, or that variety is not an issue, then why do you make ice cream?

5. You state that vigorous exercise is necessary for good health. Is that based on your own experience? Of course, no studies have ever been performed on zero-carb individuals. Naturally, after eating this way you had increased energy and were able to accomplish more than before. Wouldn't that indicate that the diet alone could supply one with the basic abilities to hunt?

As to physical activity, it seems to me that simply engaging in sports would simulate the activities of hunting. If, when pushed beyond certain limits, muscles begin to burn, why wouldn't the natural reaction be to stop, unless pre-conditioned to think that exercise is good?

I can't believe that prehistoric man would have engaged in deliberate exercise. If food was scarce and difficult to obtain why would he expend more energy than he had to?

I'm sure you believe that you and your wife have benefited from exercise. My question is basically: How do you know that in a zero-carb person lack of exercise is bad?

Last edited by TwilightZ : Mon, Mar-13-06 at 09:38.
Reply With Quote
  #623   ^
Old Mon, Mar-13-06, 09:43
lynnp's Avatar
lynnp lynnp is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 4,072
 
Plan: My Version of M/E
Stats: 284/000/140 Female 65 inches
BF:54%/49.5%/25%
Progress: 197%
Location: Rhode Island
Default

Intersting questions being generated here. Can't wait to read the responses....
Reply With Quote
  #624   ^
Old Mon, Mar-13-06, 11:10
diabowl diabowl is offline
New Member
Posts: 13
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 252/250/180 Male 178 cm
BF:
Progress:
Default Some tentative answers

[QUOTE=TwilightZ]Bear,


1. If all carbohydrates are essentially "poison," and if insulin is very damaging to the tissues in the body, then why do you think the mechanism exists in the first place? Why would the pancreas produce something as damaging as insulin? Why doesn't the body simply pass carbs without attempting to digest them? My observations have been that when the body itself is responsible for an undesirable effect, it's the result of the body's attempt to correct a problem, e.g. laying down of plaque in arteries to repair damage. What problem does the body think is occurring in tissues, which the damaging properties of insulin are supposed to correct?
Quote:

I think simply what happens is that the body is over saturated with carbohydrates, especially the simple kind. The cells do not need more (peripheral resistance), there is too much fat in the body (in extreme obesity), so the system either breaks down or goes on strike..




3. Are you aware of the fact that in the presence of glucose, cells in the body de-differentiate into cancer cells? And that this has been demonstrated repeatedly? And that in people with cancer, when carbs are totally removed from the diet, their cancers have disappeared. It's doubtless that there are certainly other contributing factors, but to claim that diet has no bearing is to disregard fact.

I did not know abou the glucose. Hard to even imagine it. Is there such a thing as glucose-free environment in the body? However, I think that the functioing of the immune system is important to avoid some types of cancer. Body makes cells all the time to renew the trillion cells we have. It is not a completely error-free process. Poorly made cells (some can be cancerous) are hunted down and killed by the healthy immune system.

II'm sure you believe that you and your wife have benefited from exercise. My question is basically: How do you know that in a zero-carb person lack of exercise is bad?


I think that lack of exercise in any person is bad for their well-being.


diabowl
Reply With Quote
  #625   ^
Old Mon, Mar-13-06, 11:22
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
We are the eaters of cows, and we must NOT eat their food. That is the way of Gaia, the Conscious Planet who has placed us at the very pinnacle of the food-chain-eco-pyramid which is very small at the top. If we had remained where we belonged, rather than stepping down a level or two, not only would we live well and enjoy good health, but there would only be as many of us as the world can support. There would be no crowded struggling cities filled with the desperately poor, no pollution and no destruction of the ecosystem. The planet cannot carry us at the present population level, it is rapidly failing. The worst, most disastrous move we have made, worse even than the wide spread havoc caused by our uptake of the fundamental superstitious religions, is the consumption of vegetation. It has allowed us to infest the planet like ten thousand fleas on a Chihuahua. At least that is how I view it. 5 million, or up to 10 million, maybe- but no more is a good human population level, NOT six thousand million.
My thoughts exactly.


The move away from a nomadic hunter life has often been called "the worst mistake in human history". And it has been devastating not only to humans, but to the planet. Sustainable animal husbandry adopted full scale, along with serious population control, is our species' only real solution for the future. Only with this type of ecosystem will we be able to survive, without the desperate reality that lay ahead for most of the human population.

Only the elite who "run the world" will benefit from any other arrangement. But, the elite have been built on the backs of those who built the pyramids... so the use of a food pyramid as a "guide for eating" seems to be so fitting, with the most recent agricultural adoptions (food for slaves) nearest to the bottom.

One of the reasons I try and obtain as much of my animal food as possible from local farmers and hunters is simply to try and move in a more positive direction in this regard. It may not be making much of a dent, but I feel that just moving in a more constructive direction is important. I just feel very queasy every time I enter a modern grocery store.

Last edited by PaleoDeano : Mon, Mar-13-06 at 19:52.
Reply With Quote
  #626   ^
Old Mon, Mar-13-06, 13:19
LadyArya's Avatar
LadyArya LadyArya is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 640
 
Plan: No one plan
Stats: 208.5/180.5/150 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 48%
Location: Florida
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
My lovely wife is nearly 17 years younger than I am.


Good for you! Man, my bf is only 6 years older than me and that makes him think he hit the jackpot. 17 years... impressive

I think you just won the support of every man who ever went through a midlife crisis and tried to pick up a 20 year old

No sarcasm intended. I really think it's fabulous.
Reply With Quote
  #627   ^
Old Mon, Mar-13-06, 13:21
MissSherry's Avatar
MissSherry MissSherry is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 3,066
 
Plan: M&E Maintenance <5carbs
Stats: 170/109.5/115 Female 5'1"-5'2" w/ shoes
BF:31.1%/21.3%/19%
Progress: 110%
Location: By the beach in Florida
Default

LOL My DH is 14 years older then I am. His friends said the same thing
Reply With Quote
  #628   ^
Old Mon, Mar-13-06, 13:29
LadyArya's Avatar
LadyArya LadyArya is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 640
 
Plan: No one plan
Stats: 208.5/180.5/150 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 48%
Location: Florida
Default

Oh and whoever was looking for tongue (that almost sounded erotic.... almost )

I happend to come across some at walmart the other day that was relatively cheap. I'm sure it's not the best place to buy meats, but it was there if anyone's interested. Almost bought it myself, but being that I've never eaten it before I have absolutely no idea how to prepare it. Figure I'll look into it before I make the purchase.... and, of course, figure out a way to make it not look like a tongue when it's on my plate

My ancestors were farmers in Poland. My grandparents are straight off the boat circa the 1920s. Because of that, the most "unusual" thing we ever ate was kielbasa. Eating organs is a whole new world for me, so I have a lot to learn still.
Reply With Quote
  #629   ^
Old Mon, Mar-13-06, 13:42
lynnp's Avatar
lynnp lynnp is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 4,072
 
Plan: My Version of M/E
Stats: 284/000/140 Female 65 inches
BF:54%/49.5%/25%
Progress: 197%
Location: Rhode Island
Default

LadyArya, the look of tongue has always been my issue with it. I have never wanted to eat anything that could taste me back.
Reply With Quote
  #630   ^
Old Mon, Mar-13-06, 13:45
MissSherry's Avatar
MissSherry MissSherry is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 3,066
 
Plan: M&E Maintenance <5carbs
Stats: 170/109.5/115 Female 5'1"-5'2" w/ shoes
BF:31.1%/21.3%/19%
Progress: 110%
Location: By the beach in Florida
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lynnp
LadyArya, the look of tongue has always been my issue with it. I have never wanted to eat anything that could taste me back.



ROFLOL
Reply With Quote
  #631   ^
Old Mon, Mar-13-06, 13:57
JandLsMom's Avatar
JandLsMom JandLsMom is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,719
 
Plan: atkins induction
Stats: 330/330/165 Female 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: Illinois
Default

Well my hubby is 5 years YOUNGER than i am...does that make me cool too??? lol
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #632   ^
Old Mon, Mar-13-06, 13:57
LadyArya's Avatar
LadyArya LadyArya is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 640
 
Plan: No one plan
Stats: 208.5/180.5/150 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 48%
Location: Florida
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lynnp
LadyArya, the look of tongue has always been my issue with it. I have never wanted to eat anything that could taste me back.


ROFL Oh thank god I am not the only one who thought that!

I still have nightmares about this one time I went to christmas eve dinner at a friends house. Their family is very traditional italian and does all the fish dishes on christmas eve. Well they serve me this big plate of pasta (years ago when I still ate that) with mussels and clams and whatever. Then right on top they drop a baby squid.

Now, I love squid. I could eat calimari, even not breaded, until the cows come home. But I couldn't eat that baby squid. I just sat there staring at my plate until my friend finally said "are you ok?"

"No," I said. "I can't eat this."

"Why?"

"It's looking at me funny!"

They left the head on with the eyes intact. I couldn't eat anything that was giving me puppy-dog-eyes. I'm not one to turn down good food, but I couldn't eat after that.
Reply With Quote
  #633   ^
Old Mon, Mar-13-06, 13:58
LadyArya's Avatar
LadyArya LadyArya is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 640
 
Plan: No one plan
Stats: 208.5/180.5/150 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 48%
Location: Florida
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JandLsMom
Well my hubby is 5 years YOUNGER than i am...does that make me cool too??? lol


You betcha!
Reply With Quote
  #634   ^
Old Mon, Mar-13-06, 14:30
lynnp's Avatar
lynnp lynnp is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 4,072
 
Plan: My Version of M/E
Stats: 284/000/140 Female 65 inches
BF:54%/49.5%/25%
Progress: 197%
Location: Rhode Island
Default

LadyArya....
Reply With Quote
  #635   ^
Old Mon, Mar-13-06, 14:40
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
Default

Quote:
and, of course, figure out a way to make it not look like a tongue when it's on my plate


You peel off that outer part to get to the muscle underneath and here's my hint: it's easier to peel when it's still hot.
Do yourself a favor and look up a few recipes before you decide to try it; there's lots of different ways to spice and cook these things.
Reply With Quote
  #636   ^
Old Mon, Mar-13-06, 14:55
Harvest's Avatar
Harvest Harvest is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 86
 
Plan: Paleo*lite
Stats: 185/135/125 Female 5'7
BF:
Progress: 83%
Location: Chugiak, Alaska
Default How to prepare tongue

I'll post info about cooking tongue in the recipe thread.
Reply With Quote
  #637   ^
Old Mon, Mar-13-06, 15:09
MissSherry's Avatar
MissSherry MissSherry is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 3,066
 
Plan: M&E Maintenance <5carbs
Stats: 170/109.5/115 Female 5'1"-5'2" w/ shoes
BF:31.1%/21.3%/19%
Progress: 110%
Location: By the beach in Florida
Default

Thanks! I am interested too.
Reply With Quote
  #638   ^
Old Mon, Mar-13-06, 15:19
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
Default

Quote:
I'm sorry, but when you go into a produce section at the market, you are not looking at real human food... you can walk down the snack food isle and see more of the same... non-human food. Talk about engineered food! This stuff NEVER existed until very recently. BUT! Go to the butcher counter... ah! There is where you will find TRUE human food!


Umm...most of the stuff that you see in the butcher's counter wasn't around back then, either.

Here is an article that talks about the discovery of 90,000+ plant remains uncovered from an upper paleo site in Israel.
Reply With Quote
  #639   ^
Old Mon, Mar-13-06, 15:53
Paleoanth's Avatar
Paleoanth Paleoanth is offline
Slothy Superhero
Posts: 12,159
 
Plan: Vegetarian Atkins
Stats: 165/145/125 Female 60 inches
BF:29/25.2/24
Progress: 50%
Location: Tennessee/Iowa
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa N

Here is an article that talks about the discovery of 90,000+ plant remains uncovered from an upper paleo site in Israel.


Thanks! I mentioned the pushing back of the date for grains, but didn't have the reference to go with it.

I have met and exchanged emails with Dr. Yosef-he is really nice.
Reply With Quote
  #640   ^
Old Mon, Mar-13-06, 16:05
lynnp's Avatar
lynnp lynnp is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 4,072
 
Plan: My Version of M/E
Stats: 284/000/140 Female 65 inches
BF:54%/49.5%/25%
Progress: 197%
Location: Rhode Island
Default

What does tongue taste like?
Reply With Quote
  #641   ^
Old Mon, Mar-13-06, 16:49
Harvest's Avatar
Harvest Harvest is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 86
 
Plan: Paleo*lite
Stats: 185/135/125 Female 5'7
BF:
Progress: 83%
Location: Chugiak, Alaska
Default Taste of Tongue

It's hard to explain the flavor really- alone, without condiments. The only tongue I've eaten is from Caribou or Moose and I thought that it tasted like a roast. They don't taste like an organ or have a gamey taste either. They really were quite good.

I noticed beef tongue in the grocery here a couple days ago- the butcher said he sells alot of it. I'm guessing it will taste like a beef roast?
Reply With Quote
  #642   ^
Old Mon, Mar-13-06, 16:55
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lynnp
What does tongue taste like?


The closest taste that I can think of to compare it to would be very well done roast beef without the dry texture and it's a bit chewier than roast beef. Braising was the cooking method I always used to cook and I'd throw some peppercorns, onions and bay leaves into the cooking water along with some Kosher salt.
Pre-low carb days, I'd make a sandwich with it after it was cooled and sliced and top it with Thousand Island dressing.
Reply With Quote
  #643   ^
Old Mon, Mar-13-06, 17:11
lynnp's Avatar
lynnp lynnp is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 4,072
 
Plan: My Version of M/E
Stats: 284/000/140 Female 65 inches
BF:54%/49.5%/25%
Progress: 197%
Location: Rhode Island
Default

Thanks for the descriptions. Sounds like it would do well in a pressure cooker or slow cooker. May have to try it one day.
Reply With Quote
  #644   ^
Old Mon, Mar-13-06, 17:26
Rob21370's Avatar
Rob21370 Rob21370 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 225
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 336/297/140 Male 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 20%
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lynnp
What does tongue taste like?



Ahhh, it speaks for itself! :::ba-doompa-crash:::
Reply With Quote
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:19.


Copyright © 2000-2017 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.