Dr. Wm Davis-Vegetables & Strong Bones : General Health Forum : Active Low-Carber Forums

#1 ^

Wed, Dec-30-15, 10:15

Meme#1

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Dr. Wm Davis-Vegetables & Strong Bones

I am reading a book by William Davis MD, the author of Wheat Belly and I so wish I could post the chapter called (bone breaker). It goes into complete detail about how eating veggies prevents bone loss (broken bones)by keeping the body in an alkaline state. I really wish I could post the entire section here, it's fascinating.

Bibliography for all of his facts stating that we should be eating at least 50% veggies more than meat. 2:1
see below:

*Worldwide Incidence of Hip Fracture in Elderly Women:
Relation to Consumption of Animal and
Vegetable Foods
http://www.vivalis.si/uploads/datoteke/3a00.pdf

*Worldwide incidence of hip fracture in elderly women: relation to consumption of animal and vegetable foods.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11034231

*Diet, evolution and aging
The pathophysiologic effects of the post-agricultural
inversion of the potassium-to-sodium and
base-to-chloride ratios in the human diet
http://www.saeure-basen-forum.de/pd...1/frassetto.pdf

*A high ratio of dietary animal to vegetable protein increases the
rate of bone loss and the risk of fracture in postmenopausal
women1–3
http://www.easyph.com.au/cms/images...roteinratio.pdf

Eating veggies to meat at a ratio of (Taken from a worldwide study)
1:1 = 200 hip frctures per 100,000
2:1-5:1=10 hip fractures per 100,000

"Around 10,000 years ago, the formally alkaline human diet pH balance shifted to the acid side with the introduction of grains, especially the most dominant of grains, Wheat. The modern human diet of plentiful "healthy whole grains" but lacking in vegetables and fruit is highly acid-charged, inducing a condition called acidosis. Over the years, acid takes a toll on your bones"

He says that taking extra calcium us useless and that we build bone until we are about 18, then we spend the rest of our lives tearing it down, a process regulated by body PH. The chronic mild metabolic acidosis engineered by our diet worsens as we age, starting in our teens and worsening through the eighth decade." and says, "incidentally, taking calcium supplements is no more effective at reversing bone loss than randomly tossing some bags of cement and bricks into your yard is at building a new patio."

"The acidic PH pulls calcium carbonate and calcium phosphate from bone to maintain the body PH of 7.4. The acidic environment also stimulates bone resorbing cells within bone, known as osteoclasts, to work harder and faster to dissolve bone tissue to release the precious calcium."
"The problem comes when you habitually ingest acids in the diet, then draw on calcium stores over and over and over again to neutralize those acids.
An excessively acidified diet will eventually show itself as bone fractures." because the body in an effort to keep "the body slightly alkaline will sacrifice bone health to keep the body pH stable. If not eating Wheat, "Meats such as chicken, pork and beef are a major source of acid in the average American diet.
Acids yielded by meat include uric acid and sulfuric acid (the same as your car battery and acid rain). However protein rich foods may not be as harmful to pH balance as it first appears. Recent research suggests that protein-rich meats have other effects that particularly negate the acid load. Animal protein exerts bone strengthening effect through stimulation of the hormone insulin growth factor (IGF-1) which triggers bone growth and mineralization."

"Vegetables and fruits, on the other hand, are the dominant alkaline foods in the diet. Virtually everything in your produce department will drive pH toward the alkaline direction. From kale to kohlrabi, generous consumption of vegetables and fruits serve to neutralize the acidic burden from animal products."

*(-Minus the fruits for us because were loosing weight and/or controlling diabetes)

Last edited by Meme#1 : Wed, Dec-30-15 at 12:27.

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#2 ^

Thu, Dec-31-15, 01:35

Meme#1

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Balancing Acid/Alkaline Foods

Balancing Acid/Alkaline Foods

Quote:

A surprising number and variety of physical problems and diseases can be caused by the problem of foods that are acid-producing after digestion. Today the vast majority of the populace in industrialized nations suffers from problems caused by the stress of acidosis, because both modern lifestyle and diet promote acidification of the body's internal environment.

The current typical Western diet is largely composed of acid-forming foods (proteins, cereals, sugars). Alkaline-producing foods such as vegetables are eaten in much smaller quantities. Stimulants like tobacco, coffee, tea, and alcohol are also extremely acidifying. Stress, and physical activity (both insufficient or excessive amounts) also cause acidification.

Many foods are alkaline-producing by nature, but manufactured processed foods are mostly acid-producing. It is important to consume at least 60% alkaline-producing foods in our diet, in order to maintain health. We need plenty of fresh fruits and particularly vegetables (alkaline-producing) to balance our necessary protein intake (acid-producing). And we need to avoid processed, sugary or simple-carbohydrate foods, not only because they are acid-producing but also because they raise blood sugar level too quickly (high glycemic index therefore fattening); plus they tend to be nutrient-lacking and may be toxic too.

Water is the most abundant compound in the human body, comprising 70% of the body. The body therefore contains a wide range of solutions, which may be more or less acid. pH (potential of Hydrogen) is a measure of the acidity or alkalinity of a solution - the ratio between positively charged ions (acid-forming) and negatively charged ions (alkaline-forming.) The pH of any solution is the measure of its hydrogen-ion concentration. The higher the pH reading, the more alkaline and oxygen rich the fluid is. The lower the pH reading, the more acidic and oxygen deprived the fluid is. The pH range is from 0 to 14, with 7.0 being neutral. Anything above 7.0 is alkaline, anything below 7.0 is considered acidic.

Human blood pH should be slightly alkaline (7.35 - 7.45). Below or above this range means symptoms and disease. If blood pH moves below 6.8 or above 7.8, cells stop functioning and the body dies. The body therefore continually strives to balance pH. When this balance is compromised many problems can occur.

An imbalanced diet high in acidic-producing foods such as animal protein, sugar, caffeine, and processed foods puts pressure on the body's regulating systems to maintain pH neutrality. The extra buffering required can deplete the body of alkaline minerals such as sodium, potassium, magnesium, and calcium, making the person prone to chronic and degenerative disease. Minerals are borrowed from vital organs and bones to buffer (neutralize) the acid and safely remove it from the body. Because of this strain, the body can suffer severe and prolonged damage--a condition that may go undetected for years.

Health problems caused by acidosis
If you have a health problem, most likely you are suffering from acidosis. Research shows that unless the body's pH level is slightly alkaline, the body cannot heal itself. So no matter what means you choose to take care of your health, it won't be effective until the pH level is balanced. If your body's pH is not balanced, for example, you cannot effectively assimilate vitamins, minerals and food supplements. Your body pH affects everything.

Acidosis will decrease the body's ability to absorb minerals and other nutrients, decrease the energy production in the cells, decrease it's ability to repair damaged cells, decrease it's ability to detoxify heavy metals, make tumor cells thrive, and make it more susceptible to fatigue and illness.

An acidic pH can occur from an acid-forming diet, emotional stress, toxic overload, and/or immune reactions or any process that deprives the cells of oxygen and other nutrients. The body will try to compensate for acidic pH by using alkaline minerals. If the diet does not contain enough minerals to compensate, a build up of acids in the cells will occur. Acidosis can cause such problems as:

Cardiovascular damage.
Weight gain, obesity and diabetes.
Bladder conditions.
Kidney stones.
Immune deficiency.
Acceleration of free radical damage.
Hormonal problems.
Premature aging.
Osteoporosis and joint pain.
Aching muscles and lactic acid buildup.
Low energy and chronic fatigue. Slow digestion and elimination.
Yeast/fungal overgrowth.
Lack of energy and fatigue.
Lower body temperature.
Tendency to get infections.
Loss of drive, joy, and enthusiasm.
Depressive tendencies.
Easily stressed.
Pale complexion.
Headaches.
Inflammation of the corneas and eyelids. Loose and painful teeth.
Inflamed, sensitive gums.
Mouth and stomach ulcers.
Cracks at the corners of the lips.
Excess stomach acid.
Gastritis.
Nails are thin and split easily.
Hair looks dull, has split ends, and falls out.
Dry skin.
Skin easily irritated.
Leg cramps and spasms.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...php?p=410885931

http://www.trans4mind.com/nutrition/pH.html
*Great chart showing which foods are acidic and which foods are alkaline.

Last edited by Meme#1 : Thu, Dec-31-15 at 01:52.

#3 ^

Thu, Dec-31-15, 06:11

JEY100 JEY100 is offline

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Chris Kresser did a good job of myth busting with those claims:

http://chriskresser.com/the-ph-myth-part-1/
http://chriskresser.com/the-acid-alkaline-myth-part-2/

Quote:

162749707In Part 1 of this series, I talked about why the basic premise of the acid-alkaline theory is flawed, and I showed that the evidence doesn’t support the idea that a net acid-forming diet is harmful to bone health. Now I want to look at the effect of dietary acid load on other health conditions.

Can the acidity or alkalinity of your diet affect your risk for muscle loss, cancer, and more?
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Muscle Wasting
There is some research claiming that acid-forming diets cause muscle wasting, and the proposed mechanism is similar to that of the acid-ash hypothesis of osteoporosis. Some researchers hypothesize that in order to eliminate excess acid and maintain homeostasis, the kidneys must steal amino acids from muscle tissue. (1, 2) Just as a higher acid load increases calcium in the urine, it also increases nitrogen in the urine, leading some to believe that an acid-forming diet causes net nitrogen loss. However, some of these studies neglect to measure nitrogen balance, so this is not necessarily true. (3, 4) In fact, one study showed that a higher acid diet improved nitrogen balance! (5) This theory also does not acknowledge that protein, although it’s acid forming, actually increases the body’s ability to excrete acid. (6) Finally, the one observational study concluding that alkaline diets improve lean muscle mass didn’t even measure the overall acid load of the diet. (7) Instead, they used potassium intake as an approximate measure, and just assumed that the observed improvement in muscle mass was due to the diet being more alkaline. This, in addition to the limitations that always accompany observational data, makes the evidence less than convincing, especially since the clinical trials have conflicting results.

Cancer
One of the more popular claims of the alkaline diet is that it can cure cancer. Proponents say that because cancer can only grow in an acidic environment, a net-alkaline diet can prevent cancer cells from growing, and can eliminate existing cancer cells. This theory is incorrect for a few reasons. First of all, the hypothesis depends on the ability of food to substantially change the pH of the blood and extracellular fluid, which I’ve already shown is not the case. (8, 9, 10) Second, cancer is perfectly capable of growing in an alkaline environment. The pH of normal body tissue is 7.4, which is slightly alkaline, and in almost every experiment done with cancer cells, they are grown in an environment at that pH. (11)

Now, cancer cells do tend to grow better in an acidic environment, but the causality is reversed. Once a tumor develops, it creates its own acidic environment through up-regulated glycolysis and reduced circulation, so the pH of the patient’s blood no longer determines the pH of the cancer. (12) It’s not the acidic environment that causes the cancer; it’s the cancer that causes the acidic environment. To top it all off, the only comprehensive review on ‘diet-induced’ acidosis and cancer did not even acknowledge this as a valid mechanism by which an acid-forming diet could increase cancer risk. They discuss a few biological pathways that could potentially link dietary acid load and cancer, but they admit that it’s mostly speculation and there’s no direct link. (13)

Other Effects
There are a few observational studies attempting to link acid-forming diets with hypertension, but the results are mixed. (14, 15) There’s also limited observational data associating higher acid loads with things like high cholesterol, obesity, and insulin resistance, but there are no proposed mechanisms or clinical studies to validate the hypotheses. (16, 17)

There are a few review papers examining the effect of acid-forming diets and health, but as you’ve seen above, the evidence they have to review is sparse. (18, 19, 20, 21, 22) If you read these papers, you’ll notice that whenever they cite trials showing the deleterious effects of acidosis, those trials were done on patients with chronic kidney disease or diabetes-induced acidosis. In the studies done on healthy people, they’re given ammonium chloride to induce acidosis. What you won’t see are clinical trials showing health consequences from purely ‘diet-induced’ acidosis. (Perhaps because ‘diet-induced’ acidosis doesn’t exist!) You’ll also notice that the strongest two hypotheses deal with osteoporosis and muscle wasting, and that links with other diseases are speculative or based on observational data. And although conflicts of interest don’t necessarily mean their conclusion can’t be trusted, it’s interesting to note that one of these reviews was funded by “pH Sciences®,” which “develops and manufactures patent-protected ingredients that safely and effectively manage biological pH levels.” (23)

In sum, I am not convinced that an acid-forming diet has negative effects on healthy people, based on the science. But just to be sure, it’s always a good idea to observe healthy cultures to see if there’s any anthropological evidence to support or refute the hypothesis.

Evolutionary Data
There are a few studies where researchers attempted to approximate the net acid load of Paleolithic diets. One estimated that 87% of pre-agricultural people ate net-alkaline diets, and proposed this discrepancy with our modern diets as a possible reason for our declining health. (24) However, a more recent study estimated that only half of the world’s hunter-gatherer societies eat net-alkaline diets, while the other half are net acid-forming. (25) They reason that the other estimate is likely accurate for our earlier ancestors, because their tropical habitat would’ve provided ample fruits and vegetables. This idea is confirmed by another analysis that showed increasing acid load with increasing latitude. (26) Even without the study, it stands to reason that as humans moved into less hospitable environments, the animal content (and acid load) of their diet increased.

Given the subpar clinical science on this topic, I think the evolutionary argument is far more convincing. If half of the world’s hunter-gatherer populations avoid the ‘diseases of civilization’ on an acid-forming diet, it would seem that acid load has little to no bearing on overall health. For some case studies, we can always look to Weston Price’s work to see quite clearly that acid-forming diets are not detrimental to health. Based on Price’s descriptions, many of the traditional diets he studied would have been primarily acid-forming, including the Swiss, the Masai, and the Inuit. Yet despite their high intake of animal foods or grains and their comparatively low intake of fruits and vegetables, they maintained excellent health.

Conclusion
I don’t deny that many people have seen significant health improvements when switching to an alkaline diet, but there are many possible reasons for this not having to do with pH balance. Eating more fresh produce is rarely a bad idea, especially when it displaces nutrient poor processed foods. A person switching to an alkaline diet would significantly reduce their consumption of grains, which could cause dramatic health improvements for somebody with a leaky gut or gluten sensitivity. Dairy would also be minimized, which would help those with dairy sensitivities. And although pure sugar isn’t an acid-forming nutrient, many laypeople claim that it is, so alkaline diets tend to contain far less sugar than a standard Western diet.

Between the scientific evidence (or lack thereof) and the anthropological research, I think we can be confident that the acid load of our diets doesn’t negatively impact healthy people. For those with renal failure or similar conditions that affect kidney function, it’s a different story—there’s certainly room for manipulation of urine pH in the treatment of those conditions. But for someone with functioning kidneys, there should be no concern that an acid-forming diet will harm health.

#4 ^

Thu, Dec-31-15, 11:15

Equinox

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The body regulates acid/alkaline balance very, very exactly, otherwise we would die long, long before our bones got soft. Doesn't take that much acid to make you pant like you're getting no air, it's called Kussmaul respiration and is a major symptom of ketoacidosis (never seen outside type 1 diabetes by the way, just making sure).

#5 ^

Fri, Jan-01-16, 11:32

Meme#1

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Yes you are right that the body does regulate the excess acid and it does so by taking calcium from the bones.
Many women die not of old age but from falls and broken hips and then complications that lead to death.

#6 ^

Fri, Jan-01-16, 16:03

Rosebud Rosebud is offline

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Meme#1

Meme, I don't know where you heard that one!

But it is absolutely not true. I promise you the body does not regulate excess acid by leeching calcium from the bones!

And those little old ladies who fall and break their hips? You'd be amazed by the number of those ladies whose osteoporosis is caused by just plain not eating enough, although as many of us on this forum know, sufficient vitamin D is the one of the best ways to prevent osteoporosis.

#7 ^

Fri, Jan-01-16, 23:45

Meme#1

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This is what Dr. William Davis, a cardiologist has written in his book, Wheat Belly,2011. I am reading the same book which he released after Wheat Belly with the same content but under the cover name of "Lose the Wheat, Lose the Weight, 2012"

"The acidic PH pulls calcium carbonate and calcium phosphate from bone to maintain the body PH of 7.4. The acidic environment also stimulates bone resorbing cells within bone, known as osteoclasts, to work harder and faster to dissolve bone tissue to release the precious calcium." page 121

Some of the References used for the book and everything I quoted here are listed in the links above.

#8 ^

Sat, Jan-02-16, 00:13

Rosebud Rosebud is offline

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Meme, there's a huge difference between people with an acidic pH and normal pH. People with an acidic pH are normally so sick that they are in an ICU. So my point was that little old ladies who fracture their hips do so not because they are acidotic, but because, as I said, they are usually way too low in Vitamin D.

And just for the record, the body requires a much tighter acid base balance than "7.4". In fact, 7.4 is way too acid.

We need to keep our blood pH at a very precise 7.35 to 7.45. And the body does that itself mainly through the lungs and kidneys. Not the bones.

ETA: Heh, I just realised that I wrote a bit of garbage above, because of course 7.4 is smack in the middle of 7.35 and 7.45.

Yep, I'm an idiot.
But I'm not an idiot about the rest, because the body does indeed regulate its acid base balance through the lungs and kidneys. You can take that to the bank. And people whose pH is too low do indeed wind up in ICU. I have nursed many, many of them over the years. The causes of the acidosis are many and varied, but I don't recall any of them just being because of what they ate. Often it's been severe asthma, diabetes or similar life threatening illnesses.

Last edited by Rosebud : Sat, Jan-02-16 at 00:29. Reason: I'm an idiot...

#9 ^

Sat, Jan-02-16, 11:45

Seejay

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John Berardi, a sports nutritionist, also wrote an excellent article a long time ago. He is talking about subclinical mild acidity, not like the severe disease state.
Like Dr Davis, he also believes neutralizing a diet improves bone and tissue health (moving away from mild acidity).
The article includes references.
Berardi writes for athletes, ie high volume exercise, so take that as whatever.

I sort of pay attention to this. I loathe most vegetables so I keep protein moderate, fat generous, and follow a semi low carb plan that allows roots

to get in some base-inducing food to counteract the acid-inducing ones.

John Berardi - Covering Your Nutritional Bases

Quote:

Every cell of the body functions optimally within a certain pH range (pH is a measure of the acidity or alkalinity of the body). In different cells, this optimal range is different, however, the net pH of the body has to remain tightly regulated. One common problem with most industrialized societies is that our diets produce what’s called a “low grade chronic metabolic acidosis.” In other words, the PRAL of our diets is high and this means that we’re chronically in a state of high acidity. While there are a number of disease states that induce severe metabolic acidosis, we’re talking a sub-clinical rise in acidity here. Therefore, your doc probably won’t notice the problem. But that doesn’t mean that you’re in the clear. Your cells will recognize the problem.

So what’s wrong with this low-grade chronic metabolic acidosis? Well, since the body must, at all costs, operate at a stable pH, any dietary acid load has to be neutralized by one of a number of homeostatic base-producing mechanisms. So, although the pH of the body is maintained and your doctor visits turn out fine, many cells of the body will suffer. Here are some of the most severe consequences of your body’s attempt to maintain a constant pH in the face of an acidic environment:

Hypercalciuria (high concentrations of calcium in the urine). Since calcium is a strong base and bone contains the body’s largest calcium store, metabolic acidosis causes a release in calcium from bone. As a result, osteoclastic (bone degrading) activity increases and osteoblastic (bone building) activity decreases. The net result of these changes is that bone is lost in order to neutralize the acidic environment of the body. The calcium that was stored in the bone is then lost in the urine along with the acid it was mobilized to neutralize. This creates a negative calcium balance (more calcium is lost from the body than is consumed) and bones get weak. (2,3,4,6)
Negative nitrogen balance (high concentrations of nitrogen in urine). Glutamine is responsible for binding hydrogen ions to form ammonium. Since hydrogen ions are acidic, glutamine acts much like calcium to neutralize the body’s acidosis. Since skeletal muscle contains the body’s largest glutamine store, metabolic acidosis causes muscle breakdown to liberate glutamine from the muscle. The amino acids from this muscle breakdown are then excreted, causing a net loss of muscle protein. (2,7)

In addition to bone and muscle loss, other consequences of acidosis include:

Decreased IGF1 activity (4)
GH resistance (4)
Mild hypothyroidism (4)
Hypercortisolemia (4,5)

Interestingly, low-grade metabolic acidosis seems to worsen with age. Many have speculated that this is due to an age-related decline in kidney function (and acid excretion). Of course, osteoporosis and muscle wasting are unfortunate consequences of aging. While it’s too early to tell, perhaps some of the bone and muscle loss evident as individuals get older is a result of diet-induced acidosis.

... Since a neutralization of the Western diet without a change in energy intake or macronutrient composition has been shown to improve bone health, to shift nitrogen balance from negative to positive, to reduce blood cortisol concentrations, to increase thyroid hormone production, and to reverse the GH resistance ...

Employing a few simple strategies to neutralize your high-acid diet may mean the difference between chronic low-grade acidosis — and the associated muscle wasting, bone loss, and altered hormonal profile — and a healthy, alkaline diet.

#10 ^

Sat, Jan-02-16, 23:08

Meme#1

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Seejay

to get in some base-inducing food to counteract the acid-inducing ones.

John Berardi - Covering Your Nutritional Bases

Funny how things come together because after buying Dr. Davis's book for 50 cents, reading it and posting about it here, what should I have a conversation about just this afternoon with my old friend of 50 years but about this very subject.
She has been going through a certain therapy for the past several months it almost literally killed her in October, but she has come out of it, her tests are now clear and she is on her way to recovery and what diet do you think the doctor told her to stick with?
meat and vegetables with emphasis on fresh veggies so I explained to her what I've been reading and that it's to keep her body toward the alkaline state etc.... and then she understood why.
What a coincidence.....

#11 ^

Thu, Jan-07-16, 00:40

Meme#1

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Seejay

to get in some base-inducing food to counteract the acid-inducing ones.

John Berardi - Covering Your Nutritional Bases

Thanks for posting that info about Berardi, I will look him up.
There's no doubt in my mind that they are right.
Dr. Davis is a Cardiologist and I once saw him on a PBS presentation
and I was just fascinated by him, he's a very smart man.

#12 ^

Tue, Feb-02-16, 11:56

jem51

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The body continuously balanced pH and the minerals to do so have to come from somewhere. Whether it's the bones or organs they are not just created from nowhere.

#13 ^

Sat, Feb-06-16, 08:28

pazia

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The science may be controversial, but I've been getting root veggies, spinach, garlic, and onions from a local farm this winter (they come into town once a month), so cooking with a lot more carrots, rutabaga, turnips, etc. I just mentioned to the farmer that my joints seem so much stronger and especially my back, I feel it's made a difference.

#14 ^

Sun, Feb-28-16, 19:39

Meme#1

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My farmer already has his plants in the ground and I can't wait until he starts producing more again. He does have cabbage now but I have enough for a couple more weeks.

#15 ^

Tue, Apr-19-16, 20:54

Meme#1

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Eat more veggies!!