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  #61   ^
Old Wed, Feb-16-05, 16:59
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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I have actually been feeling better since I started upping my T4 dose by about .60 every other day. But that got me to thinking, what would you feel like if you had too much T4 and too little T3?

And why would I be converting badly? Is there something else wrong with me?

Once I've got my hard copy of the results I'll call the doctor.

Looks like a forum where doctors chat about thyroid: http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/split/Th...eplacement.html

Last edited by Nancy LC : Wed, Feb-16-05 at 17:07.
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  #62   ^
Old Wed, Feb-16-05, 17:05
fridayeyes's Avatar
fridayeyes fridayeyes is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,044
 
Plan: low glycemic
Stats: // Female jkl
BF:
Progress: 69%
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Well, you don't have 'too much' T4, you have a decent amount for a female to feel ok, i.e. upper third of the range. Low T3 is the one that gives you the moodiness, depression and brain fog, plus some of the fatigue issues. T3 is actually the more active of the two substances. It's a little like having a full tank of gas (T4) but not being able to combust any so your engine doesn't actually run.

Many doctors only give T4, relying on the patient's body to do the conversion. As we see with both you and me, that doesn't always work.

Also just IMHO - there probably isn't something else wrong with you. If you had a thyroid, it would make more than just T4. It would make T3, T2, T1 and a bunch of other trace hormones such as one responisible for helping you absorb calcium. Replacing only T4 for someone with no thyroid is sort of silly from a medical standpoint. (I don't mean to knock your doctor, though.) You rightfully need all of the other stuff a normal thyroid would make. This may be one reason why some people prefer the Armour. It has all of that 'other' stuff in it.

Cheers,

Friday
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  #63   ^
Old Wed, Feb-16-05, 17:17
Natrushka Natrushka is offline
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Posts: 11,512
 
Plan: IF +LC
Stats: 287/165/165 Female 66"
BF:
Progress: 100%
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Nancy, many people don't convert well, and you don't have a functioning thyroid so that would mean all your FT3 would have to come from conversion. Many cells in your body need direct T3, not the converted stuff. There's also the issue of the other Ts - altsupporthyroid has some info on this, I'm sure you've read it - research is pointing to the fact that T2 in particular is necessary for optimal health.

Face it, our own thyroids make T1, T2, T3, and T4, therefore we need them for something. This is why so many people do so much better on natural desiccated thyroid like Armour or Naturthryoid.

Anything that happens in the liver will compromise conversion of T4 to T3; alcohol consumption, ketosis, use of NSAIDs and a few medications.

Low FT3 can also be a symptom of stress - be it physical or mental in nature. Dieting for extended periods of time can raise cortisol and lower FT3 (in particular LC dieting, where cortisol can rise very high because carbs are what help control it).

You definitely need some T3 in there; I'd try the suggestion of faxing those numbers to your doctor and seeing what he/she says about them. Most doctors will say "you only need T4 because your body will convert it to T3 as needed" but when faced with the reality of a particular situation they might see the error in that way of thinking and decide to be magnanimous - it can happen

BTW, these results reinforce my suggestion that you get yourself some selenium and Vit D pronto - they'll help you make more T3 out of that T4.

For switching from T4 to a natural hormone have a look here: Switching Hormones (synthetic to natural) and How to switch from synthetic to natural

Nat
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  #64   ^
Old Wed, Feb-16-05, 17:27
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Thanks! You guys have been super helpful and I can't tell you how much I appreciate your involvement in helping me diagnose what most doctors can't be trouble to diagnose.
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  #65   ^
Old Wed, Feb-16-05, 17:37
Natrushka Natrushka is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,512
 
Plan: IF +LC
Stats: 287/165/165 Female 66"
BF:
Progress: 100%
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I'm always glad to help, Nancy. This disease is insideous and very difficult to deal with; when the patient has to know more about their condition than their doctors you know something is seriously wrong.

And now you're equipped to Pay it Forward, too
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  #66   ^
Old Thu, Feb-17-05, 09:50
fridayeyes's Avatar
fridayeyes fridayeyes is offline
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Posts: 2,044
 
Plan: low glycemic
Stats: // Female jkl
BF:
Progress: 69%
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I'm glad the tests worked out for you. If your doctor won't help you, you can look up a new one on the www.armourthyroid.com website.

Cheers,

Friday
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  #67   ^
Old Thu, Feb-17-05, 09:54
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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I'm pretty sure my doctor will. He's a kindly fellow. I hope I can gently educate him a little in the process too.
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  #68   ^
Old Thu, Feb-17-05, 10:13
fridayeyes's Avatar
fridayeyes fridayeyes is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,044
 
Plan: low glycemic
Stats: // Female jkl
BF:
Progress: 69%
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Cool, it's great to have someone who will listen to you and work with you.
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  #69   ^
Old Tue, Feb-22-05, 10:39
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Well, increasing my T4 doesn't seem to have helped my fatigue. But then again, I'm not sure why it would since my issue seems to be converting T4 into T3. However, I think my weight is dropping a bit. I almost hate to say that out loud because it's generally just a temporary drop and it comes back the minute I eat something. I keep meaning to take my basal temperature but I always hop out of bed and think of it too late.

Only 1 more week until I see the doctor!
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  #70   ^
Old Tue, Feb-22-05, 16:48
Sona's Avatar
Sona Sona is offline
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Posts: 1,566
 
Plan: low- to medium-carb
Stats: 114/105/105 Female 5 feet 2 inches
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: New York City
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Quote:
get yourself some selenium and Vit D pronto - they'll help you make more T3 out of that T4.


Nat, I was wondering: Is there a kind of Vitamin D (and/or brand) and dosage that is more effective than any other?

I'd like to get some, but not till I'm fairly sure of what to look for!

Best, sona
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  #71   ^
Old Tue, Feb-22-05, 16:58
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

I'm not Nat, but she and Friday advised me to get D3 which is the one that starts with 'C' is the Correct one. Where the one that starts with 'E' is Erroneous. There, a little mnumonic!

Cholecalciferol = D3
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  #72   ^
Old Tue, Feb-22-05, 17:07
fridayeyes's Avatar
fridayeyes fridayeyes is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,044
 
Plan: low glycemic
Stats: // Female jkl
BF:
Progress: 69%
Default

ooooh, cool mnemonic! Thanks! yes, cholecalciferol. Read the label carefully. 3 (x400 units) is safe and more is ok if you're deficient. I don't have specific dosing info on me at present, tho. I believe there are articles on other sites if you need the info before I can dig it up.
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  #73   ^
Old Tue, Feb-22-05, 22:45
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Now I just need a mnemonic to remember how to spell mnemonic!
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  #74   ^
Old Thu, Feb-24-05, 09:12
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

I think the dose of .187 of T4 is close to being right for me. Man, I feel so different. Still I'm going to try switching to Armour but it is nice to know that if the armour doesn't work out that I can feel pretty good on T4.

I'm actually even losing weight!
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  #75   ^
Old Thu, Feb-24-05, 12:53
Natrushka Natrushka is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,512
 
Plan: IF +LC
Stats: 287/165/165 Female 66"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sona
Nat, I was wondering: Is there a kind of Vitamin D (and/or brand) and dosage that is more effective than any other?

I'd like to get some, but not till I'm fairly sure of what to look for!

Best, sona


Forgot to come over here yesterday! Oppps.
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