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  #1   ^
Old Tue, Oct-09-12, 15:06
Artbuc Artbuc is offline
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Posts: 6
 
Plan: <30 grams per day
Stats: 168/144/144 Male 68 in
BF:
Progress:
Default Am I T2?

FBG ok in mid- nineties. But, if I eat more than 8-10 grams of carbs as part of a VLC moderate protein meal, my 1/2 hour post-prandial exceeds 140/120 on a consistent, very predictable manner. Based on my research, a "normal" person can eat 100-125 grams of carbs and 1 hour post-prandial will be no more than 115-125. I do not plan to do an OGTT because I do not see how it would be helpful. Seems to me that being limited to 25-30 grams per day of carbs is a whole lot more than just insulin resistance. What do you folks say? Thanks.
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  #2   ^
Old Wed, Oct-10-12, 05:49
JoMac53 JoMac53 is offline
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Posts: 23
 
Plan: Bernstein
Stats: 223/137/124 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 87%
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Welcome, Artbuc. Sounds to me like your first phase insulin is not working. How long does it take for your pp bs to get back to normal?

Jo
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  #3   ^
Old Wed, Oct-10-12, 06:34
Artbuc Artbuc is offline
New Member
Posts: 6
 
Plan: <30 grams per day
Stats: 168/144/144 Male 68 in
BF:
Progress:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoMac53
Welcome, Artbuc. Sounds to me like your first phase insulin is not working. How long does it take for your pp bs to get back to normal?

Jo


Thanks for responding. Depends on how many carbs. At 8-10 grams, I get back to baseline in 3-4 hours, maybe longer if I eat an unusual amount of fat. For me, I call baseline 100-110. I never get to FBG levels during the day.
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  #4   ^
Old Wed, Oct-10-12, 06:36
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
Forum Founder
Posts: 37,232
 
Plan: LC, GF
Stats: 241/188/140 Female 165 cm
BF:
Progress: 52%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
Default

According to Jenny Ruhl, author of Blood Sugar 101:
Quote:
If you are currently eating a low carb diet--especially a diet that provies less than 75 g of carbohydrate a day, your post-meal test result will be slightly higher than it would be if you were eating over 150 grams of carbs a day ........
Check out her article .. Am I Diabetic? How to Test Your Blood Sugar To Find Out. The information for low-carbers is halfway down the page.

In fact, I suggest you bookmark and read through that entire site http://www.bloodsugar101.com/. Lots of excellent, well-researched information about diabetes, blood sugar control and low-carbing .


hth,

Doreen
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  #5   ^
Old Wed, Oct-10-12, 06:42
Artbuc Artbuc is offline
New Member
Posts: 6
 
Plan: <30 grams per day
Stats: 168/144/144 Male 68 in
BF:
Progress:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by doreen T
According to Jenny Ruhl, author of Blood Sugar 101:Check out her article .. Am I Diabetic? How to Test Your Blood Sugar To Find Out. The information for low-carbers is halfway down the page.

In fact, I suggest you bookmark and read through that entire site http://www.bloodsugar101.com/. Lots of excellent, well-researched information about diabetes, blood sugar control and low-carbing .


hth,

Doreen


Thanks. I have read most of Jenny's stuff but I will look at this again. Chris Kresser also talks about a modified OGTT using potato. I guess my question relates to subtle differences between IR and T2. To me it seems like a distinction without a difference, at least in some cases. Eg, 199 on the OGTT makes you per-diabetic but at 200 you are a diabetic. Can you be a T2 with normal FBG if you are T2 according to the OGTT?

Edit: Jenny's procedure is identical to Kresser's, including the correction factor for eating VLC before the test. I could buy glucose from Walmart for $15 but Kresser says that much straight glucose is not good for you, especially if you are IR. I will use either a bagel or sweet potato (my favorite!).

Last edited by Artbuc : Wed, Oct-10-12 at 06:57.
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  #6   ^
Old Tue, Oct-16-12, 09:40
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,866
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Just FYI, I notice I have a much different reaction between potatoes and sweet potatoes. I can eat a lot more sweet potato than I can potato before my blood sugar goes crazy.

White rice might be another option.
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Oct-17-12, 07:35
RobLL RobLL is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,648
 
Plan: generalized low carb
Stats: 205/180/185 Male 67
BF:31%/14?%/12%
Progress: 125%
Location: Pacific Northwest
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I think a test which is more useful, more real world is measuring BGs after a moderately more carby meal than normal. Measure BGs when you get up, or before the meal. Then check BGs at the one and two, and even three and four hour mark.

What you are wanting to evaluate is what sort of phase one insulin response you have, and what sort of phase two. You likely know the answsers to at least one of these questions. But, it may help to have some numbers when you talk with a doctor.
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, Oct-17-12, 13:34
Seejay's Avatar
Seejay Seejay is offline
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Posts: 3,025
 
Plan: Optimal Diet
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 62 inches
BF:
Progress: 8%
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You might want to read Peter at Hyperlipid on "Physiological Insulin Resistance." He uses the British measurement of blood sugar but you get the idea.

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot....tance%20%281%29

Quote:
Mark, posting as iwilsmar, asked about his gradual yet progressively rising fasting blood glucose (FBG) level over a 10 year period of paleolithic LC eating. Always eating less than 30g carbohydrate per day. Initially on LC his blood glucose was 83mg/dl but it has crept up, year by year, until now his FBG is up to 115mg/dl. Post prandial values are normal.

He wanted to know if he was developing diabetes.

I've been thinking about this for some time as my own FBG is usually five point something mmol/l whole blood. Converting my whole blood values to Mark's USA plasma values, this works out at about 100-120mg/dl. Normal to prediabetic in modern parlance. However my HbA1c is only 4.4%, well toward the lower end of normality and healthy. That's always assuming that I don't have some horrible problem resulting in very rapid red blood cell turnover. I don't think so...

I spend rather a lot of my life in mild ketosis, despite the 50g of carbs I eat per day. So I can run a moderate ketonuric urine sample with a random post-chocolate blood glucose value of 6.5mmol/l.

What is happening? Well, the first thing is that LC eating rapidly induces insulin resistance. This is a completely and utterly normal physiological response to carbohydrate restriction. Carbohydrate restriction drops insulin levels. Low insulin levels activate hormone sensitive lipase. Fatty tissue breaks down and releases non esterified fatty acids. These are mostly taken up by muscle cells as fuel and automatically induce insulin resistance in those muscles. There are a couple of nice summaries by Brand Miller ....

This is patently logical as muscle runs well on lipids and so glucose can be left for tissues such as brain, which really need it.

...

A SAD eater has a FBG of 5.5, prediabetic, because he is prediabetic. His muscles and liver are permanently and pathologically insulin resistant. His pancreas is cranking out 50 IU/ml of insulin to just keep that FBG in the 5.5mmol/l range. He eats bagels, jam and a large mocha for breakfast and his blood glucose hits 15mmol/l. His pancreas ups the insulin output as high as it can get it, perhaps to 150 IU/ml and just manages to to get blood glucose back down to 5.5mmol/l before lunch. Lunch is pasta and the cycle repeats.

Mean glucose over 24 hours will be between 7 and 12mmol/l. HbA1c might just hover around 7%. INSULIN will average 100 IU/ml over the 24 hours.

...

A high carb eater with FBG of 5.5mmol/l implies chronic hyperinsulinaemia, 24/7 and is looking for something to die from.

A LC, very high fat eater with a FBG of 5.5mmol/l implies they haven't had breakfast yet. They are not going to be hyperinsulinaemic at any stage. Unless they eat a bagel instead of their normal bacon and eggs that is. If they do this their blood glucose will hit 10mmol/l before insulin can shut down lipolysis and get the muscle accepting glucose.
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