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  #1   ^
Old Tue, Jan-05-10, 17:49
Ruralgurl's Avatar
Ruralgurl Ruralgurl is offline
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Posts: 437
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 225/190.5/150 Female 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 46%
Location: British Columbia
Default Beta blockers and weight gain

I have been taking a beta blocker for about 9 months now and aside from making me tired I have been putting on weight as well. No where in the drug info do they say beta blockers can cause weight gain though.
I was reading about BAT brown adipose tissue and how it helps to really burn up the calories so I took a quick google and I see this in an article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/09/h...arch/09fat.html

"The studies, investigators say, should stimulate research on safe ways to activate brown fat. It is known to be activated not only by cold but also by catecholamines, hormones that are part of the fight or flight response. That is why beta blockers, which block catecholamines, can suppress brown fat activation."
So they may not cause weight gain but sounds like they inhibit weight loss!

Any others with a similiar experience?
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  #2   ^
Old Wed, Jan-06-10, 13:23
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mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 8,475
 
Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
BF:disappearing!
Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
Default

When they make me tired or dizzy my BP is getting too low. I take a very low dose on and off which keeps my pressure normal, but normal for me may be slightly higher than the "ideal." BB can slow the pulse too, which is like decreasing the idle on an engine to save gas.
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  #3   ^
Old Wed, Jan-06-10, 18:40
Ruralgurl's Avatar
Ruralgurl Ruralgurl is offline
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Posts: 437
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 225/190.5/150 Female 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 46%
Location: British Columbia
Talking

thanks for posting Mike!
I am taking the BB's for PVC's I had been getting about 35000 a day. my blood pressure is usually pretty good but yes the bb's lower it too much, at times.
With the BB's I only get about 54 -60 bpm, nearly a corpse LOL!
If I start working hard (today it was a chicken coop, lots of shovelling) my rate goes up and I feel good, just very tired after I stop. also regarding my weight climbing up,I was thinking it was my metabolism that was poor because of the low heart-rate but now I am wondering if it is not this brown adipose tissue issue I mean I don't want to shut down anything that is working in my favour to burn these pounds!
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  #4   ^
Old Wed, Jan-06-10, 21:46
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
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Location: San Diego, CA
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Hmmm... did your doctor check your thyroid? I think PVC's are related to hyperthyroid, and sometimes hypothyroid. That could also explain the weight gain.
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  #5   ^
Old Thu, Jan-07-10, 15:05
Galrion Galrion is offline
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Plan: anti-inflammatory
Stats: 168/132/135 Female 67 inches
BF:
Progress: 109%
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You can google "beta blocker insulin resistance" and find hundreds of hits about weight gain on beta blockers. There are some new drugs that supposedly do not lead to type 2 diabetes.

I personally became insulin resistant after 4 years on beta blockers. I quit all my drugs after an echocardiogram and exercise stress test proved that my heart was normal. I had two consecutive EKGs showing that I had heart damage, which turned out to be false. You can google "sodium pump" to learn how mineral balances control heart rate. In my experience, correcting imbalances is a fairly slow healing process.
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  #6   ^
Old Fri, Jan-08-10, 14:56
Ruralgurl's Avatar
Ruralgurl Ruralgurl is offline
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Posts: 437
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 225/190.5/150 Female 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 46%
Location: British Columbia
Default

Thanks Nancy and Galrion.
I originally went to the doc about my thyroid I seem to have many of the symptoms. They will only test for T4 in Canada and not whether you are converting to T3 (as I understand it) My test for t4 always show within range so they will not take it any further.
My weight definitely went up bit by bit about 16 pound in a six month period (watching carbs but not lcing)I was already at my max weight as far as I was concerned.
I have had stress tests, echo, angio and MRI etc on my heart in the last year and everything is normal except the PVC's(premature ventricular contractions) An appointment was supposed to be made for me in May with the one doctor in BC that deals with heart rhythm problems. That appointment did not get made and I only discovered that in October when I went back for MRI results, arghh! So now I have waited another three months and hopefully will get an appointment soon.
They don't seem to be able to tell me why I have this problem just that I was probably born with it. I always thought it was a reaction to what I ate. If I overeat or have sugar I get a pounding heart I just never quite realized it was my heart..LOL
I thought start of diabetes. It would explain a lot though, like never feeling refreshed after exercise and being very fatiqued. I was always active and I have a small farm now so a lot of work.
I was taking atenolol and now she switched me to solalatol but she does not want me to take it for too long, she never said why. Do you think it could be the type II conection?
The one thing the BB's have done for me especially the atenolol is stopped my adrenelin rushes, constant rushes from the moment I opened my eyes. My anxiety was getting very bad and I really have isolated myself because of them,, so I can function better. I wonder if they fix my heart with ablation will I stll have the rushes though?? I understand bb's are used a lot to treat anxiety.
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  #7   ^
Old Fri, Jan-08-10, 15:01
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,886
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Quote:
If I overeat or have sugar I get a pounding heart I just never quite realized it was my heart..LOL

That's not uncommon at all, lots of folks do.

You might want to start getting your test results so you can look into them yourself. For instance, the scale they use for measuring normality of thyroid is way to big. You could be in the range but it might not be optimal for you.

Hey, have they looked into adrenal issues? Cortisol/adrenaline could be an issue. Like a cortisol secreting tumor or something.
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  #8   ^
Old Fri, Jan-08-10, 15:15
Ruralgurl's Avatar
Ruralgurl Ruralgurl is offline
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Posts: 437
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 225/190.5/150 Female 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 46%
Location: British Columbia
Default

Beta blocker, insulin resistance search is surprising because that information simply does not come up if you search beta blockers or beta blockers and weight gain. Thanks I think that is important to know.
I googled sodium pump but it will take me a bit to grasp how it affects my heart and why it would not be functioning properly, the pump that is. I have read about avp but it has been a long while
thanks so much
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  #9   ^
Old Fri, Jan-08-10, 15:26
Ruralgurl's Avatar
Ruralgurl Ruralgurl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 437
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 225/190.5/150 Female 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 46%
Location: British Columbia
Default

hi Nancy
I think the biggest problem is just dealing with doctors now. For years I did not have a family doc (he up and closed practise) In Canada many of us are without docs and have to go to walkin clinics. You never know what doc you are getting and not much chance to get a good relationship going. I believe that is changing, in the meantime I found a lady doc taking patients but she is a tough cookie, not easy to talk too. She did send me to the cardiologist though and has run some blood tests. I have to learn to be my own advocate I suppose which in some ways is all new as we were taught to just do as the doctor says right?
Partly I have felt so bad for so long I can't think straight about what questions to even ask. Before the BB's I would get such a rush and nervous I could not concentrate and end up babbling about everything LOL way to hyped out, then I would feel bad about chatting so much and go home and forget about it all.
There is a natural health clinic I would like to go to(expensive) and I am guessing they would deal with the thyroid and adrenal and hrmones as well (progesterone etc)
I was hoping to get the heart issue dealt with though but man is it taking some time.
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  #10   ^
Old Fri, Jan-08-10, 19:30
Galrion Galrion is offline
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Posts: 16
 
Plan: anti-inflammatory
Stats: 168/132/135 Female 67 inches
BF:
Progress: 109%
Default

Ruralgurl,

If your T4 is okay, your thyroid is fine. I could go on and on about that, but just know that it is fine. Rather by accident, you stated the source of your problem. You mentioned adrenaline rushes and anxiety attacks. Beta Blockers ARE a valid way to suppress the effects of that, although they will take their toll on your body.

You also mentioned that you realized that you've always had the problem, but didn't know what it was. You have had tons of heart testing, and you should realize that you are EMPOWERED by knowing that your heart is fine, and you aren't going to keel over. So, I know that the 'sodium pump' thing gets very complicated and turns into trying to understand lots of chemistry terms. I will give you a couple of simple hints.

Magnesium is calming. If you try to supplement magnesium too quickly, it will act as a laxative. Magnesium is poorly taken up in the digestive tract, and anything with a laxative effect will reduce assimilation. You can drink milk of magnesia or epsom salts as laxatives without gaining any benefit from the magnesium. I use a supplement called "calm" by Peter Gillham. (His cal mag drink is also good, I've used it too) One tsp. morning and one at night. I also soak in epsom salts bath 2 to 3 times per week (with added sodium bicarbonate known more commonly as baking soda). The idea is to change the ratio of calcium to magnesium that is stored in your body tissues. This takes time. The concept of cal/mag ratio of 2:1 in virtually all dietary supplements is based on... (drumroll) the ratio found in bone. How lame is that? You want to achieve a ratio of 1:1 and correct the imbalance of stored minerals in the body tissue. With a poor diet, calcium and magnesium are not well assimilated because our digestive systems become overly acid. Adding vinegar, lime or lemon juice to veggies (salad dressings, etc.) helps to assimilate the minerals. Some people put apple cider vinegar in their water, some people drink 'mineral water' (sodium bicarbonate), you can add a pinch of baking soda (some people use salt) to coffee grounds to neutralize the acidity and improve the flavor of coffee. Green tea is also alkalizing, with many other nutritional benefits. The heart muscle uses stored calcium to pump (push blood) and magnesium to relax (pull blood).

The next hint is potassium. Sodium and potassium are the primary electrolytes that send the positive and negative charges through the body (sodium pump). Processed food is all loaded with too much sodium, and potassium supplements are limited to such a dinky dose, they're worthless. White sugar has the potassium removed, and sold separately in molasses, and then years of eating stuff with white sugar and not enough veggies, etc. gets us all out of whack. Most salt substitutes are potassium chloride. I use salt substitute heavily, not for the taste so much, but for the potassium. Also, I eat lots of veggies, use powdered kelp instead of soy sauce or fish sauce, take spirulina, alfalfa, and avoid stuff with sugar. I use baking soda to neutralize acid, as it does not drive up blood pressure the way salt does. That gets into the chloride, bicarbonate, sulfate, etc. part of the sodium pump explanations.

Virtually all of the minerals that the body needs depend on balanced ratios. I seriously doubt that the new "buzz" about Vitamin D is correct. (The old "buzz" about balancing Vitamin A with Vitamin D seems to have died.) People are calcium deficient because they are magnesium deficient. The body can't use calcium without sufficient magnesium. Increasing potassium works better than decreasing sodium, but the potassium to sodium balance should be something like 16:1, so reducing sodium AND increasing potassium works. The body systems will filter out any mineral that exists in excess (unless drugs interfere), or where the balancing mineral doesn't exist. Because the "dietary guidelines" are pure garbage, I try to get a variety of minerals from various sources. Spirulina, alfalfa, parsley and other green herbs are all good sources of mixed minerals.

There is also the "anxiety" issue, and when I was skipping heart beats and running a pulse rate of up to 151 beats per minute, it was absolutely anxiety, stress, and terror. I was overdosing on adrenaline in a genuine "fight or flight" reaction. Obviously, it is easy to get into discussions that aren't really appropriate here. Holistic companies often advertise "mind, body and spirit" or something similar. There is a very solid and real truth behind it. One thing that you can probably do without much trouble is find a way to go for a walk in a pleasant place. Look at the surroundings, see that they are safe. Maybe look around to find something pretty. Notice things that you like about the place, like maybe the smell of a tree as you walk past, or how silly that barking dog is. You don't even have to walk fast (like a work-out) but breathe the air and clear your mind.

If you decide to quit taking beta blockers at some point, you need to wean off slowly. Cut the dosage in half, wait two weeks and cut it in half again. When you get down to dinky dosage, take one every other day for a week or so before ending. If you feel too tired and lousy from the Beta Blockers, you might just cut your dose in half. I started feeling better as soon as I did that much. Doctors don't seem to look for the minimum dosage as much as they should. If you reduce the dosage and symptoms return, you can just raise it back up.
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  #11   ^
Old Sat, Jan-09-10, 18:44
Ruralgurl's Avatar
Ruralgurl Ruralgurl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 437
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 225/190.5/150 Female 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 46%
Location: British Columbia
Default

Wow thanks for a very informative post Galrion.
Yes I have had extensive heart testing and I know that I have no plaque build-up, and structurally all is good and that I won't keel over. (don't tell my husband, I have him hauling the feed bags out to the barn for a change). I thought I had posted about the reason i was taking them but I must have posted elsewhere . I have constant and excessive PVC"S ( 35000 recorded) it may be more than just PVC's but I keep forgetting to write down the actual terms they use. However my heart does not speed up so much as it gets confused with the extra contractions coming from the ventricle and if you feel my pulse it is just a jumble of beats lol ( I always lost track at the gym when I was checking my pulse LOL) doc only gave me BB's to slow my heart rate to limit the PVC"s and according to her they are not coming as often. I am waiting to get into a heart rythym specialist but it has been a long wait. Only one guy in the whole province. Soooo regarding the other information and your suggestions I figure I am pretty well on track.
There was an interesting post by Natrushka ,years ago regarding the magnesium imbalance. I took cal/mag for years for leg jitters and it helped but then I starting upping my mag as well.
We cut salt out of our diet at home about five years ago. We absolutely cut out TRANS FAT!! except in milk products and I am seriously considering signing up for unpastuerized. We eat no prepackaged food, everything as local as possible and from scratch. Well my husband breaks those rules with cereals and the odd deserts. We are far from "perfect"
I have "no salt" but I hate the taste so I use it sparingly. Brush my teeth with straight baking soda..and I figure I must absorb some of that but I was always concerned it was not so good for me.
I also use organic aple cider in my water and if my husband has a stomach ache first thing I offer is ACV in a glass of water LOL.
I take D but there is a possibility I am not getting enough A
I see a list here liver, sweet potatos, carrots, mangoes, spinach, cantaloupe, dried apricots, milk, egg yolks, mozzarella cheese
I have recently started eating lots of spinach though and I have free ranging chickens whose eggs are delightful. I have grass fed beef liver in the freezer but i am the only one to eat it so it never gets pulled out and cooked LOL
There is a product by Bach called Rescue Remedy I used to take just before being around a large grop and it definitely helped.
I have a beautiful property ( when my husband is not mucking it up heh heh )with trees and ponds and animals that I walk around daily and yes that is extremely relaxing.
I believe I am doing a lot of things right and yet I have no control over the adrenelin rushes ( I get woken up by them) of course not right now with the BB's but I alo have this weird feeling that my body is trying it's hardest to continue pumping out the adrenilin even though it is "blocked" This is certainly a question for the doc. If he can ablate the PVC's will it stop the adrenilin. Also I do not believe they checked my adrenals for a tumour or anything? Since I have poured it all out here I will mention that I have very low iron and am trying to keep up with iron supplements as well. I asked if low iron has anything to do with the type of PVC's I am getting , doc says no.
Thank you again and keep posting great information for us
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  #12   ^
Old Sat, Jan-09-10, 20:56
Galrion Galrion is offline
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Posts: 16
 
Plan: anti-inflammatory
Stats: 168/132/135 Female 67 inches
BF:
Progress: 109%
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It does sound like you are on top of the situation, and doing many good things to handle it. Eat the beef liver!

The beta blockers don't stop the adrenaline from being sent. They just interfere with receiving the signal (and thus tend to mess with some other hormone signals). If those drugs are managing your condition, then it seems odd that they haven't tested your adrenals. Maybe they'll get to that after you see the specialist. And YES... I am a fan of rescue remedy.
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  #13   ^
Old Sat, Jan-09-10, 21:34
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Posts: 25,886
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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This is like an episode of House!
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  #14   ^
Old Sun, Jan-10-10, 00:29
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Ruralgurl Ruralgurl is offline
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Posts: 437
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 225/190.5/150 Female 5' 7"
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Progress: 46%
Location: British Columbia
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Oh dear.....
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  #15   ^
Old Sun, Jan-10-10, 00:44
Ruralgurl's Avatar
Ruralgurl Ruralgurl is offline
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Posts: 437
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 225/190.5/150 Female 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 46%
Location: British Columbia
Default

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=132147
Here was a link to the original magnesium thread I mentioned.
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