Some medically inclined folks, including Ray Peat (raypeat.com), also including Kurt Harris (archevore.com eating plan formerly called PaNu), have eating suggestions that include certain definitely-carby fare.

Peat's suggestions are all about hormones, not carbs, so he's got a different basis for his views. He is not a starch fan, but for reasons you'd have to read his articles to grok, recommends or at least allows potatoes, wholemeal corn, and citrus.

Harris's ideas are more a concept model than a specific, so he doesn't really emphasize anything except whole foods, quality 'core' foods of animal products, and that some people do fine with up to 35% carbs, which he suggests be from starches such as potatoes, sweet potatoes, white rice, wholemeal cornmeal, plaintains, bananas, and that citrus fruit is probably one of the better ones.

Ray and Kurt have different reasons but they do overlap on the potatoes, wholemeal corn and citrus, I notice. They both seem to agree that a strongly grass-fed animal-foods diet (including dairy) is the base. And to avoid grains.

I only briefly experimented with a little Peat eating, mostly to the degree of occasionally having coconut-oil-fried salted potatoes, fresh squeezed orange juice, and milk, all of which had been completely out of my life for years. (Trivial sidenote: times I've been off lowcarb, I haven't eaten the foods I loved best that it prevented, like those, but instead crapfood; why is that...)

Since several people have now been on a semi-lowcarb eating plan that includes starches -- the arguably safe starches -- I am curious:

Is it working for you?
Have you lost weight, or was that not your goal anyway?
Have you gained weight, enough to see as a problem not just re-nutrient-ing?
Do you feel ok?
What do you think about the above foods in the diet (which de facto will make a plan semi-low carb unless they are miniscule)?

PJ

I did have a period where I decided to add some starch each evening. More than just a little tiny bit of rice made my blood sugar really surge, but potatoes didn't, so I settled on potatoes. I'd have about 3-4oz a night.

Did it help anything? No. Did it make me lose weight? No. Did it make me gain? Maybe a little.

I'm not doing it any longer.

I found the white rice didn't work for me. But my dh eats it occasionally. I can eat a little yam (the less sweet ones) but it's better to do it at dinner.
When I first found the PHD I thought it was very close to what I was doing and followed it for a few months. I gained weight and didn't feel better.
I'm following Peat more now but as he says, people who want to lose weight should use the tropical fruits for glucose rather than the ice cream. I, of course, went with the ice cream and gained weight. Now, I'm using pears, cantaloupe, apples, peaches. But only a bit for the glucose.
I could say lots more but have to get busy. Great topic. Thanks.

I was hoping to hear more detail and/or from more people. This is a really big issue I find because over time a lot of people shift to more carbs, especially after being VLC for quite awhile. There is a lot of debate in the blogworld about 'safe starches' and 'moderate carb' and the people doing these semi-LC plans are the testimonials.

PJ

I did not find that starches helped me in any way AND I don't have any real desire....except maybe the occasional slice of bread....really occasional.

I probably didn't eat enough to have any negative effect except some intestinal bloating (corn meal, whole meal bread, oats).

I do see that some who try this tend to go overboard so that's an issue.

I can eat oranges, no problem, if I want them but really can't get into store bought oj...ugh.

So there's one other thing re RP and that's sugar....I did not see an improvement in my health by adding it so I'm back w mostly stevia and a bit of erythritol sometimes.

I did see a big improvement by removing yogurt. The only time I get any cold sores sx now is when I eat it more than occasionally; like two days in a row.
I won't be doing that again but it was a good test.

No problems w milk...still having eggnog for breakfast w some cottage cheese blended in.

I'm really not convinced about 'safe starches' and believe it's individual.
If one can eat some w/o any negative sx and w/o going carb crazy they are probably fine but I actually enjoy LC type food and am just happy to have gotten away from the whole grain/starch based diet mentality.

Oranges seem to be ok for me too. I was juicing them for a while and avoiding the pulp per Peat.. Too hard for me. We have some not from concentrate that's good. I only put about one oranges worth in my morning water with my powdered vit C. Can't go the glass of juice route.
Peat says the best source of sugar is in fruit. He advises it or milk between meals especially for hypothyroid people to avoid hypoglycemia. Probably milk works better for me and I use this milk in coffee. I can get carried away and eat too much fruit.

I'm too tired to write. Can't think but wanted to try to respond again...

I have never tried any of these plans although I do follow the Ray Peat thread. However, I am currently making some changes to my eating to try to find out what's missing that is making my digestion so messed up and my sleep. Right now, I'm eating nothing but whole fruit for breakfasts and up until an hour before lunch. This means, I can eat at 7am (2 bananas, apple, grapes, pineapple, citrus, etc.) and if I'm hungry again at 10, eat some more, no problem), but just stop about 45 minutes before lunch. I'm mentioning this for a reason. By doing this, my carbs are WAYYY up, like maybe 250 carbs in the morning! Also, compared to what I would normally eat in the morning, the fruit is also more calories than I would normally eat, and I've lost 2 lbs last week doing so. I'm not even really in weight loss mode, but maintenance. Also, I'm eating a little more starch mostly in the form of potato, rice, and a little corn (no wheat). For instance, I actually had a baked potato Saturday night. It's been years since I've had one. The thing about having these things is that you cannot eat the high fat that is often found from diets like Atkins. You cannot get your fuel from both sources, it's one or the other. I had my baked potato with maybe 1/2 tsp of butter, just enough to have some flavor. I'm not necessarily eating "lowfat" but I"m just not adding in fat to my foods and letting it fall where it naturally would in my food. My results so far is that I'm sleeping like a brick without waking up every hour, waking feeling rested and ready for the day. My digestion seems to be improving with far less bloat and without constipation. I'm still early in this but these are my results so far.

LAwoman, when I was into food combining Fit for Life style, it was commonly known that those who ate only fruit in the morning were the ones who lost weight.

I actually enjoyed it and continued for years but there came a time when I would be famished, painfully so, w/in a short period of time.
There were a couple reasons it was no longer working for me, hypoglycemia symptoms, really severe.

My daughter started SCD due to her IBS. She consumed lots of fruit and the weight just fell off.
When you consume fruit only as a meal it changes the game, that's for sure.

I have been using some of Peat's ideas and am finally sleeping well.

I don't drink his full quantity of oj. Not even close. I do follow his advice by putting lots of milk in my coffee and having coffee when I eat meat.

I had already upped my salt but like it that he's shown me more reasons to do that. Last night I ate corn chips (I know I don't eat corn but did) cheese, and a pear for dinner near bedtime. Then I had my 1/2 cup milk at bedtime.

Peat says the salt, fruit and milk help sleep. The salt and glucose are supposed to be key.

I think the corn in the chips was my only starchy item yesterday. Although I don't want to use any grains, the corn is gluten free, and the chips seem to work. But, I only want them on weekends and the canola oil is yucky. I cannot find them with coconut or palm oil.

Hope that helps somebody. I'm in awe of it and glad for any progress.

The book "Fit for Life" is where I originally learned about the fruit alone for breakfast. I read it a few years ago. It's also IBS symptoms that has triggered my change in eating. I lost my weight following a semi low carb plan as going too low only made me feel terrible. I always had some fruit in my diet and a little bit of starch and never high fat as that always played against me as well. I've learned so much about my body over the past several years, and I'm one that doesn't do well on very low carb or high fat. I've been maintaining for over 3 years now and this is the first time in a while that I've dropped weight.

Welll, I'm going to add my 2 cents in here even though I have not reached goal. HOWEVER, I HAVE been doing this for a looonggg time and started out on Atkins and lost 60lbs VERY quickly.

I don't know of any of the plans that you mention, but what I have found that works the BEST for me is adding in low glycemic carbs. When I do eat rice I eat brown rice, when I do eat pasta I eat whole grain pasta, when I DO eat potatoes I eat red/sweet potatoes, and I eat whole grain/double fiber bread, beans and low GI fruit which helps me calm my sugar cravings. Those are pretty much all the carbs I eat on any regular basis...and when I am on track (btw, it's the sweets that I can't stay away from), I lose about 2-3 lbs/week average...with exercise of course (unlike what I did on Atkins!).

Edited to add: BTW, I am eating lean protein and reduced fat dairy along with my brown carbs.

As far as how I feel...I FEEL GREAT!!!! I also feel easily in control...no cravings, no weird energy crashes, etc. It just really feels healthier to me.

My big problem is saying NO to sugar if I'm out and about...once I get a taste, I'm OFF and I gotta have it! lol. HORRIBLE HORRIBLE ADDICT!! LOL

Anyway, hope this helps.

I remember FitForLife!! I spent a lot of time with those recipes back then. Fruit alone for breakie doesn't keep me satiated. That's saying it mildly. I need dense protein. And for me the combination of food is important to regulate the blood glucose. I get faint or develop cravings after just fruit unless it's a tiny amount.

For a long time I had fruit only like grapefruit at the end of breakie and then no more for the day. I'm working in the tropical fruits now with a little oj. Staying away from berries except cherries because of the nasty seeds.

Oh believe me, I'm starving when I open my eyes in the morning and have a huge appetite. That's the good thing about eating fruit, I can have as much as I want. Already this morning, I've had 3 bananas, honeydew melon, and 20 grapes. I will eat more before the morning is up.

Wow!!! I eat a lot too though. Two egg omelette, 3 pcs bacon, few green beans and fruit today was grapefruit... Much tea with milk and then coffee with milk.

After a few momnths of struggling with binge eating on maintenance, I am trying Fit for Life, starting today. A gluten free version, mind you.

My plan is unlimited fruit til noon, and then two meals of protein and veggies a day. Maybe 2-3 times per week, the noon meal will be starch and veggies instead of protein and veggie. I will report back.

20-25 years ago, in high school, I followed Fit for Life religiously. But back then I also ate wheat. I weighed the lowest weight of my life and felt wonderful the whole time. I got away from it in college and then kind of forgot about it.

But part of my biggest struggle in maintenance is with wanting to eat fruit, potato and other foods. And then when I do have a banana, I use that as an excuse to binge on crap, since i am "off plan" anyway. So, i am going to try making these foods part of my plan and see what happens.