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  #16   ^
Old Fri, Dec-02-05, 09:37
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Ok, my tests with resistant corn starch have found it rather disappointing for thickening. I tried to use it in a lemon sauce in place of regular corn starch and it just didn't work.
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  #17   ^
Old Fri, Dec-02-05, 09:42
theoldlady theoldlady is offline
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Hi IslandGirl,

How much Carbalose did you use for how much liquid? What method did you use to make it?

I had disappointing results making a butter/Carbalose roux in the usual manner. I used 1 tbsp Carbalose per cup of pan drippings because Carbalose is supposed to be 1:1 for regular flour. I got three layers, one fat, one broth, and one very thick and gooey "settled out" layer on the bottom. After stirring, it was still too watery. It tasted great, though, and I'd like to make it again and have it be regular-like but low carb gravy.
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  #18   ^
Old Sun, Dec-04-05, 00:10
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IslandGirl IslandGirl is offline
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Posts: 4,909
 
Plan: Atkins,PP - wgt in %
Stats: 100/96.8/69 Female 5'6.5"
BF:DWTK/DDare/JEnuf
Progress: 10%
Location: Vancouver Island, BC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theoldlady
Hi IslandGirl,

How much Carbalose did you use for how much liquid? What method did you use to make it?

I had disappointing results making a butter/Carbalose roux in the usual manner. I used 1 tbsp Carbalose per cup of pan drippings because Carbalose is supposed to be 1:1 for regular flour. I got three layers, one fat, one broth, and one very thick and gooey "settled out" layer on the bottom. After stirring, it was still too watery. It tasted great, though, and I'd like to make it again and have it be regular-like but low carb gravy.


Hey there. Hmmmmm. My 'usual' manner of making a butter roux would be roughly equal amounts of fat and 'flour', then adding flour til all fats are absorbed (none floating around on top). Usually end up with about 10% more flour than fat, by weight. And no liquids at this point (in other words, separate the pan drippings before making the roux). That's the classical method and probably the root cause of your 3 layers...

That being said, with the bechamel/roux I read about on another website, more Carbalose was used than would be used for a traditional bechamel, but that's hearsay on my part.

As for my chicken pot pie, I pretty much used the 'dump' method. I cooked the chicken pieces (boneless skinless thigh chunks) in a few tablespoons of oil, added in and sauteed the chopped onion and celery and a bit of small diced carrot (and my secret seasonings ) and when all was cooked to satisfaction (and no liquids other than some fat on the bottom of the pan) added tablespoonsful of Carbalose, stirring madly, til all fats were absorbed and there were no 'dry' spots to be seen, off the heat. Back on low heat and I stirred in chicken broth in, say, 1/4 cup increments til I had a thick enough sauce. Didn't take long to thicken, either so keep stirring.

Then into the casserole dishes, top with a quick drop biscuit (it's on the box) and into the oven, 350 for maybe 20-25 minutes. Very tasty.

Hope that helps?
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  #19   ^
Old Sun, Dec-04-05, 09:34
jjb2000 jjb2000 is offline
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I've considered using carbalose but haven't tried it yet because it said it was a substitute for wheat flour so I was afraid it would put a wheat taste in the roux. Maybe I will try it. I did try a little corn starch and that definitely did not work.

Last edited by jjb2000 : Sun, Dec-04-05 at 09:47.
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  #20   ^
Old Sun, Dec-04-05, 12:57
IslandGirl's Avatar
IslandGirl IslandGirl is offline
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Posts: 4,909
 
Plan: Atkins,PP - wgt in %
Stats: 100/96.8/69 Female 5'6.5"
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Progress: 10%
Location: Vancouver Island, BC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjb2000
This thread is old so I assume no one found a real substitute for the roux? I really want to make my etoufee recipe but the roux is important.


Someone else has come up with a recipe that seems to work for a gumbo/etoufee, and another southener, too! She used Vital Wheat Gluten for the wheat flour portion of the classic roux.

http://www.lowcarbtransformation.co...highlight=gumbo

Take a look, it's interesting. I'll stick with the carbalose but there ARE alternatives using readily available ingredients.

ps: a quick google came up with this one in no time.
pps: gumbo file powder (sassafrass) is the traditional thickener, if my reading is right...no wheat flour roux required.

Last edited by IslandGirl : Sun, Dec-04-05 at 17:48.
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  #21   ^
Old Fri, Dec-09-05, 18:18
jjb2000 jjb2000 is offline
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I made a roux using Carbalose instead of white flour and it did just fine. I couldn't tell any difference in taste. Had crawfish etouffee--that was a real treat.
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  #22   ^
Old Fri, Dec-16-05, 08:35
theoldlady theoldlady is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandGirl
My 'usual' manner of making a butter roux would be roughly equal amounts of fat and 'flour', then adding flour til all fats are absorbed (none floating around on top). Usually end up with about 10% more flour than fat, by weight. And no liquids at this point (in other words, separate the pan drippings before making the roux). That's the classical method and probably the root cause of your 3 layers.
Oh! How did I miss this? Sorry it's taken me so long to explain.

Yes, you're right. That's how I've made dozens if not hundreds of roux, and this was my first failure. But I read here somewhere (forgive me, I forget where) that some WPI is more agglutinating than others, and I may have carbalose flour made with the lighter WPI. I'll try adding some VWG next time. Thing is that I just don't make roux that often anymore. But rest assured that I will have perfected it before trying it on Christmas dinner!

Thanks for all your help and advice with this.
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  #23   ^
Old Tue, Dec-20-05, 18:46
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IslandGirl IslandGirl is offline
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Posts: 4,909
 
Plan: Atkins,PP - wgt in %
Stats: 100/96.8/69 Female 5'6.5"
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Location: Vancouver Island, BC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theoldlady
...That's how I've made dozens if not hundreds of roux, and this was my first failure. But I read here somewhere (forgive me, I forget where) that some WPI is more agglutinating than others, and I may have carbalose flour made with the lighter WPI. I'll try adding some VWG next time. Thing is that I just don't make roux that often anymore. ..


My turn to be confused ...can you tell me why you think that the "agglutinating" action of any WPI/Vital Wheat Gluten (...note that Carbalose is, BTW, not officially made with WPI but officially made with a proprietal enzyme-modified wheat flour, whatever that means...) would make a difference to whether you had fluids other than liquid fat in your 1st-stage roux? I still make my roux with only fat and "flour" in that first stage, to avoid separation...and it seems to be working
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  #24   ^
Old Wed, Dec-21-05, 08:45
theoldlady theoldlady is offline
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Hi Jude,

Oh, massive confusion. Yes! I made the roux in the normal way, that is, stirring and heating butter and (in this case carbalose) flour until the flour smells toasted and the water from the butter is completely evaporated. Then, still stirring over the heat, I added the pan drippings. This is the way I have always made my roux, and as I said I have never had a failure before. In fact, I thought roux were so idiot proof (required in my case) that they could never go wrong, so the failure was quite a shock. Good thing it tasted good, or it would have ruined my Thanksgiving! Well...

Now that you know that I actually made the roux correctly, do you have any pointers? I must confess to not making any more roux because I usually use pureed mushrooms for a thickener these (low carb) days, but I wanted to make "real" gravy for dh for the holidays.

Coming up for Christmas, roast prime rib with (I hope) a nice, thick "real" gravy.
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  #25   ^
Old Wed, Dec-21-05, 14:42
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
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I think they often add 1 cup of good wine to pan drippings and let it "cook down". But sometimes that is too strong so 1/2 cup of water with 1/2 cup of wine is preferred by some. Or use a broth instead of water. The cooking down intensifies the taste.
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  #26   ^
Old Wed, Dec-21-05, 17:39
IslandGirl's Avatar
IslandGirl IslandGirl is offline
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Posts: 4,909
 
Plan: Atkins,PP - wgt in %
Stats: 100/96.8/69 Female 5'6.5"
BF:DWTK/DDare/JEnuf
Progress: 10%
Location: Vancouver Island, BC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theoldlady
Hi Jude,

Oh, massive confusion. Yes! I made the roux in the normal way, that is, stirring and heating butter and (in this case carbalose) flour until the flour smells toasted and the water from the butter is completely evaporated. Then, still stirring over the heat, I added the pan drippings. This is the way I have always made my roux, and as I said I have never had a failure before. In fact, I thought roux were so idiot proof (required in my case) that they could never go wrong, so the failure was quite a shock. Good thing it tasted good, or it would have ruined my Thanksgiving! Well...

Now that you know that I actually made the roux correctly, do you have any pointers? ...


Ok, there's one thing that catches my eye, and that is that well-browned flour (keeping in mind this is flour, the effect may be intensified with carbalose and its low digestible starch content) absorbs less fat so you need more flour to do the same job. In short, I think you might have overcooked your roux, reduced the absorption capabilities of the carbalose/flour, hence the separation on adding the drippings (which also contain fat?).

My success with the roux so far has been with white or blond roux, haven't yet tackled a brown roux or toasted 'flour'. If I DID I'd automatically think I needed more flour/carbalose (and BTW, where toasting the roux/flour comes in, I'd toast first -- toasting 15% more minimum, with carbalose probably 30%+ -- then stir into the fat until all the fat is absorbed, etc. etc.). If more color is then needed, I'd use my standby of Kitchen Bouquet or {{secret! but it's got good color}}...and for more flavor I'd go with some of that red wine NancyLC mentioned and maybe some worcestershire sauce, etc, as flavor boosters. Hope this helps!
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  #27   ^
Old Thu, Dec-22-05, 11:52
theoldlady theoldlady is offline
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Oh, excellent! Thanks a ton, Jude. Tomorrow is my big "trying to make the gravy" day, and I'll let you know what happens.
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  #28   ^
Old Fri, Apr-20-07, 15:15
Dorr185 Dorr185 is offline
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I just make my gumbo without the roux. It's a bit more soupy, but the roux doesn't really add any flavor IMO. Besides, I use okra in my gumbo, and that thickens it up plenty for me.
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