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  #1   ^
Old Sat, Aug-27-16, 07:39
mushymindy's Avatar
mushymindy mushymindy is offline
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Posts: 91
 
Plan: Low Carb My Way :)
Stats: 150/138/130 Female 5ft 4in
BF:
Progress: 60%
Location: Lake Macquarie, NSW, Aus
Default How much protein should I be eating?

Hiya

Sorry if this has been asked elsewhere, I have had a look and can't find it.

I am a month into my WOE and feeling great... I'm just wondering though, how much protein should I be eating? I'm 32 5ft 4in and 143lbs.

I've recently upped my fats after some research and am eating 100 - 130g of fat per day. You'll have to excuse my ignorance, but back when I started low carb for the first time around 10 years ago it was all 'low carb/high protein' so the protein wasn't really limited. Now that we know a lot more about this lifestyle it seems that 'low carb/high fat' is all the rage and we shouldn't eat 'too much' protein.
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  #2   ^
Old Sat, Aug-27-16, 09:05
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Ccat69 Ccat69 is offline
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Posts: 472
 
Plan: LCHF/ketogenic
Stats: 163/132/130 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 94%
Location: Upstate NY
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The diet Doctor site says about 1 gram per kilo of desired weight, which would put you (and me, since we have similar stats) at about 60 grams per day (on average to aim for). I remember calculating around 70 to 80 using other methods. I am not too fussy about exact amounts anymore. I eat until satisfied, then stop. It keeps me at appropriate quantities now.

http://www.dietdoctor.com/ask-dr-an...-protein-intake

Last edited by Ccat69 : Sat, Aug-27-16 at 09:09. Reason: Add
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  #3   ^
Old Sat, Aug-27-16, 09:52
mushymindy's Avatar
mushymindy mushymindy is offline
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Posts: 91
 
Plan: Low Carb My Way :)
Stats: 150/138/130 Female 5ft 4in
BF:
Progress: 60%
Location: Lake Macquarie, NSW, Aus
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Thank you for replying

Hmmm I might be having a bit much then I reckon. One day this week I actually had 120g! Thats really helpful info.
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  #4   ^
Old Sat, Aug-27-16, 12:40
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GreekRibs GreekRibs is offline
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Posts: 2,747
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 212/169/150 Female 5'9"
BF:
Progress: 69%
Location: Saskatchewan
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Hi there; my macros are around 65% fat, 25% protein and 10% carbs, give or take each day. Protein often sits around 100 gms. So I'm at the high end of the .5 - .7 grams of protein per pound of current weight. If you're doing serious exercise, .8 - 1 gram of protein per pound of current weight sorta thing.

Play around with it until you feel good. hee hee one day I had 150 grams of protein because I did a double order of greek chicken drumettes.
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  #5   ^
Old Sat, Aug-27-16, 14:42
CityGirl8 CityGirl8 is offline
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Plan: Protein Power, IF
Stats: 238/204/145 Female 5'8"
BF:53.75%/46.6%/25%
Progress: 37%
Location: PNW
Default

I started eating low carb when I read Protein Power. While the carb recommendations are similar to Atkins, they also endorse eating sufficient (not "high") protein. What is sufficient for you depends on your size and how much you work out.

Two basic methods for calculating minimums based on your size are 1) a certain number of grams per pound of overall weight and 2) a certain number of grams per pound of lean body mass (LBM). The numbers might work out similarly for thinner and fit people, but for many of us who are carrying around way too much fat, the second calculation is probably better. We don't need to feed our fat. CCat's suggestion from the Diet Doctor--to calculate on ideal or goal weight--also tries to address this, I think.

I calculate based on LBM, which for me is about 112 lbs. Usual recommendations start at .6 gm per pound of LBM for very sedentary people and go up to 1 gm for very active people (or sometimes higher for serious athletes). This puts me at about 80 gms/ per day as a minimum and I usually end up somewhere between 80 and 100. These calculations are usually trying to estimate minimums, not maximums, so more is fine.

This is the approach that the Drs. Eades who wrote Protein Power used in their medical practice for years to help people with weight, diabetes, cholesterol and other problems.

The Diet Doctor's suggested grams per kilo seems low to me, but maybe they are coming at this from a "low carb, high fat" school of thought that doesn't endorse much protein.

Last edited by CityGirl8 : Sat, Aug-27-16 at 14:51.
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  #6   ^
Old Sun, Aug-28-16, 07:39
comanchesu comanchesu is offline
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Plan: Atkins
Stats: 182/175/155 Female 65 inches
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Atkins recommends 4-6 oz of a protein at each meal for women. That would be like a 4-6 oz burger patty, or chicken thigh.
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  #7   ^
Old Sun, Aug-28-16, 10:21
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inflammabl inflammabl is offline
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Posts: 2,371
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 296/220/205 Male 71 inches
BF:25%?
Progress: 84%
Location: Upstate SC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mushymindy
Thank you for replying

Hmmm I might be having a bit much then I reckon. One day this week I actually had 120g! Thats really helpful info.


http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/ is a well respected calculator with references.

You must get enough protein. If you do not then your body will not be able to repair itself day-to-day and start to leave itself un-repaired or slow/shutdown other processes requiring protein. There's been a thought that protein should be minimized to ensure it does not get converted to blood sugar but that process is very slow and 30g extra protein is NOT converted in to 30g of extra blood sugar.
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  #8   ^
Old Sun, Aug-28-16, 12:02
HappyLC HappyLC is offline
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Posts: 1,876
 
Plan: Generic low carb
Stats: 212/167/135 Female 66.75
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Progress: 58%
Location: Long Island, NY
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  #9   ^
Old Sun, Aug-28-16, 12:09
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cotonpal cotonpal is offline
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Posts: 5,282
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62
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Progress: 109%
Location: Vermont
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inflammabl
http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/ is a well respected calculator with references.

You must get enough protein. If you do not then your body will not be able to repair itself day-to-day and start to leave itself un-repaired or slow/shutdown other processes requiring protein. There's been a thought that protein should be minimized to ensure it does not get converted to blood sugar but that process is very slow and 30g extra protein is NOT converted in to 30g of extra blood sugar.


There is a lot of debate about how much protein one needs to get daily in order to accomplish repair. Ron Rosedale recommends much less than most people recommend and Dr Mercola has adopted his approach. You can read about it here:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...ein-intake.aspx

There is a talk by Rosedale on the dietdoctor.com site requiring membership (free for the first month).

We recently had a discussion here about higher protein requirements for older people and protein requirements vary depending on how much exercise you get. In other words this is still an open question. Plus protein requirements are usually based on lean body mass but there is no easy at home way to determine lean mass so that's another unknown or guess when trying to figure it out. I'm trying to figure this out for myself and what I have discovered is that there's no definitive answer. The closest I can get is that you should eat enough protein but not too much .

Jean
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  #10   ^
Old Sun, Aug-28-16, 12:31
inflammabl's Avatar
inflammabl inflammabl is offline
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Posts: 2,371
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 296/220/205 Male 71 inches
BF:25%?
Progress: 84%
Location: Upstate SC
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Quote:
There is a lot of debate about how much protein one needs to get daily in order to accomplish repair.


Not only do I agree with you but I think you are understating the issue. Everyone with at least a smakeral of science agrees that protein is necessary. Unfortunately there is A LOT of scatter in the data which becomes proportionally worse as a person become more sedentary. Even Lemmon who did the original study on athletes has started to equivocate on recommended intake.

Quote:
The closest I can get is that you should eat enough protein but not too much.

Agree 100%.

Last edited by inflammabl : Sun, Aug-28-16 at 12:38.
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  #11   ^
Old Sun, Aug-28-16, 18:34
MickiSue MickiSue is offline
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Posts: 8,006
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 189/148.6/145 Female 5' 5"
BF:36%/28%/25%
Progress: 92%
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Default

If you compute your macros (I don't, except for carbs), an easy way to get a good fat/protein ratio is to have about equal grams of each. So: 100 grams fat, 100 grams protein. If you are at 20 grams of carbs, then it ends up, in calories, 80 carb, 400 protein and 900 fat.

Last edited by MickiSue : Mon, Aug-29-16 at 08:27.
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  #12   ^
Old Sun, Aug-28-16, 21:32
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mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 8,475
 
Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
BF:disappearing!
Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
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The type of protein and your age matters too. Whey protein, for instance, easily assimilated and maybe good if you're older. I have read that it can be insulin stimulating and it's made from dairy which can stall some people. I use it when weight lifting, but not everyday in a shake with water and HWC.

As far as how much protein that depends on carb count. On meat, fish and eggs only I aim for 80 grams a day which may be on the low side. In the absence of carbs your body needs protein to make glucose, but going low for a day or two shouldn't hurt as protein reserves, enzymes, wastes and what not last about 3 days even if fasting.

If I ever go higher on carbs for some reason I cut back on fat for that day but not protein.

Last edited by mike_d : Sun, Aug-28-16 at 21:41.
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  #13   ^
Old Mon, Aug-29-16, 05:40
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

Even when you get to weight training and protein requirements, things are a bit uncertain. You can have a study where somebody at say 60 grams of protein a day experiences slower muscle growth than somebody at 100 grams. So did the exercise increase protein requirements? Not necessarily--remove the exercise, and instead of slow muscle growth, the person at 60 grams might have experienced instead no muscle growth or actual loss. You could look at that as the protein increasing this specific benefit from the exercise, rather than the exercise increasing the requirement for the protein. The question might be what's optimal, rather than what's required.

cottonpal said;

Quote:
We recently had a discussion here about higher protein requirements for older people and protein requirements vary depending on how much exercise you get.


Speaking of this--during that discussion I meant to mention this study but got distracted;

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/69/6/1202.full

Quote:
Background: Adequate protein nutrition could be used to limit gradual body protein loss and improve protein anabolism in the elderly.

Objective: We tested the hypothesis that an uneven protein feeding pattern was more efficient in improving protein anabolism than was an even pattern.

Design: After a controlled period, 15 elderly women (mean age: 68 y) were fed for 14 d either a pulse diet (n = 7), providing 80% of the daily protein intake at 1200, or a spread diet (n = 8), in which the same daily protein intake was spread over 4 meals. Both diets provided 1.7 g protein•kg fat-free mass (FFM)−1•d−1. Protein accretion and daily protein turnover were determined by using the nitrogen balance method and the end product method (ammonia and urea) after an oral dose of [15N]glycine.

Results: Nitrogen balance was more positive with the pulse than with the spread diet (54 ± 7 compared with 27 ± 6 mg N•kg FFM−1•d−1; P < 0.05). Protein turnover rates were also higher with the pulse than with the spread diet (5.58 ± 0.22 compared with 4.98 ± 0.17 g protein•kg FFM−1•d−1; P < 0.05), mainly because of higher protein synthesis in the pulse group (4.48 ± 0.19 g protein•kg FFM−1•d−1) than in the spread group (3.75 ± 0.19 g protein•kg FFM−1•d−1) (P < 0.05).

Conclusion: A protein pulse-feeding pattern was more efficient than was a protein spread-feeding pattern in improving, after 14 d, whole-body protein retention in elderly women.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22992307

Quote:
Impact of protein pulse feeding on lean mass in malnourished and at-risk hospitalized elderly patients: a randomized controlled trial.


Quote:
BACKGROUND & AIMS:
Aging is associated with a blunted anabolic response to dietary intake, possibly related to a decrease in systemically available amino acids (AAs), which in turn may stem from increased splanchnic AA metabolism. This splanchnic sequestration can be saturated by pulse feeding (80% of daily protein intake in a single meal), enabling increased protein synthesis. This study aimed to evaluate the efficacy of a new nutritional strategy, termed protein pulse feeding.
METHODS:
This prospective randomized study (ClinicalTrials.gov registration number NCT00135590) enrolled 66 elderly malnourished or at-risk patients in an inpatient rehabilitation unit. All were given a controlled diet for 6 weeks. In a spread diet (SD) group (n = 36), dietary protein was spread over the four daily meals. In a pulse diet (PD) group (n = 30), 72% of dietary protein (1.31 g/kg weight/d on average) was consumed in one meal at noon. The patients were evaluated at admission and at 6 weeks for body composition [lean mass (LM), appendicular skeletal muscle mass (ASMM), and body cell mass (BCM) indices, measured by X-ray absorptiometry combined with bioelectrical impedance analysis] (primary outcome), hand grip strength, and activities of daily living (ADL) score.
RESULTS:
Protein pulse feeding was significantly more efficacious than protein spread feeding in improving LM index (mean changes from baseline for PD group: +0.38 kg/m(2); 95% confidence interval (CI), [0; 0.60]; for SD group: -0.21 kg/m(2); 95% CI, [-0.61; 0.20]; p = 0.005 between the two groups), ASMM index (+0.21 kg/m(2); 95% CI, [0; 0.34] and -0.11 kg/m(2); 95% CI, [-0.20; 0.09]; p = 0.022), BCM index (+0.44 kg/m(2); 95% CI, [0.08; 0.52] and -0.04 kg/m(2); 95% CI, [-0.09; 0.10]; p = 0.004). There was no significant effect for hand-grip strength or ADL score.
CONCLUSIONS:
This study demonstrates for the first time that protein pulse feeding has a positive, clinically relevant effect on lean mass in malnourished and at-risk hospitalized elderly patients.


Past a certain age, a bigger protein meal might be better than a bunch of little ones.

Here I wonder whether besides a stronger signal from a larger protein meal, there might be a sensitizing effect due to the fact that this leaves protein intake sort of low during the rest of the day. If you take the first study--somebody taking in 80 grams of protein in a pulse fashion would be getting 64 grams in the big meal, with only 16 grams for the rest of the day.

I'm a bit skeptical of the methods of measuring lean mass in both studies, so at this point I still find this interesting and promising rather than convincing. The downside of trying something like this seems low, though.
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  #14   ^
Old Mon, Aug-29-16, 07:34
mushymindy's Avatar
mushymindy mushymindy is offline
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Posts: 91
 
Plan: Low Carb My Way :)
Stats: 150/138/130 Female 5ft 4in
BF:
Progress: 60%
Location: Lake Macquarie, NSW, Aus
Default

Wow guys, thank you so much for all the responses. I especially liked the Butter Bob video. I think I'm going to stop stressing about it and let my body figure it out
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  #15   ^
Old Mon, Aug-29-16, 08:15
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doreen T doreen T is offline
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Plan: LC paleo/ancestral
Stats: 241/188/140 Female 165 cm
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Progress: 52%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
Past a certain age, a bigger protein meal might be better than a bunch of little ones.

Interesting! Although, age wasn't the only factor here .. the study subjects were also malnourished or borderline at the outset. I wonder if the results would be similar for healthy, adequately nourished folks?

So I just did a search .. the same group who conducted the first study you quoted (Arnal, et al) repeated the pulsed-protein pattern in healthy young women (average 26 yrs). Result? .. no effect. "Protein Feeding Pattern Does Not Affect Protein Retention in Young Women" .. http://jn.nutrition.org/content/130/7/1700.long


*sigh* It's all one big fat gray area . In my own n=1 experiment, I have better hunger/appetite control and functional energy with 90 to 100g protein and fat intake roughly 60% than with 50g protein and 80% fat.

But that's just me, YMMV
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