Hi -

Am waiting for Neanderthin, so I was wondering whether you can actually call what I'm doing paleo-based? I know meat/protein comes at the bottom of the pyramid, and fruit and veggies next up, but how exactly does this work? In terms of calories?

I actually feel I need less protein than I used to eat, but when I need it, I really feel like it(and then I eat a lot). The rest of the time I like fruit. Whenever I up my meat intake to more than 2/3 portions a day, I get tired and constipated (despite eating large salads). However if I eat too much fruit all the time I get irritable (hello blood sugar)and weak. Nuts are definitely out for me, and I don't really feel drawn to them anyway so who cares. I play ****loads of tennis, and have noticed am much more 'solid' in my shots when eating more protein.

Anybody else feel a great need for fruit? I have ALWAYS been like this. Even as a kid I would eat a lot of fruit. When I don't, I get sick very quickly. When I was doing Atkins, I got sick constantly with colds and flu due to restriction in fruit/tomatoes etc. I even took huge amounts of vit c pills which didn't seem to do anything. And I had to stay on induction the whole time to lose anything, which wasn't very varied.

Yes I know I am obsessed with fruit!

Lou

Hi there Loops,

The great thing about Neanderthin is it is all about what your body needs and wants. Don't worry about calories, don't weigh your food, don't count carbs or fat. Just eat what you are intended to eat. Ray Audette writes that natural foods including meat, nuts, veggies, and fruit are great and what you're supposed to eat. Just be careful of overdoing fruit if you're trying to lose weight or if your blood sugar is volatile. I read somewhere, and can't remember which book it was, that eating fruit in the evenings generally is better, I think because you generally eat more in the evening and the sugars are more balanced than in the morning or afternoon. At least that is true with me.

I'm a fruit lover, too. When a child, my mother called me Fruit Bat because I would rather eat a piece of fruit than anything else. But I can't eat more than a piece of fruit every day, or every other day. Now I eat a lot of fat and have never felt better.

Yeah-

think 'letting go' is pretty hard for me. Wahey though, last few days have been good - some days more fruit, some days more meat. I have pretty strong feelings about both (love). Really excellent I don't have any probs with bread/beer (used to before did Atkins). Incredible thing about fruit is it adds in the missing piece to the puzzle. Not knocking atkins as I think it really works, but I was always guzzling lots of sweeteners and cream and hankering after the booze a lot more before. Fruit just 'does' something to even things out. Ok, still have a glass of wine in evening, but considering was on brink of being serious fully-fledged alchy before, think this is excellent.
Tum feels a lot better with more fibre too.
Favourite fruit?

Lou

Loops,
How much fruit are you eating? Fruit is the only thing I really miss on Atkins.
Thanks,
Sarah

It really depends on how much I want. Ok this morning I made a large smoothie with strawberries (15?), plums (3) and a large peach with some seeds and orange juice added in.

But I was very dehydrated (went out last night and drank) and really needed something easy to digest. Fruit also gets rid of hangovers fairly well too.

I know what you're thinking (THAT'S A LOT OF CARBS!). Usually I will have one of these smoothies, wait for it all to go down until I am hungry (2 hours) and then hit the protein and salad/veg. I try not to mix fruit with protein too much - it makes me feel a bit stuffed.

Right now I will eat maybe 5-8 portions of fruit a day. I also eat a lot of coconut oil and fish.

I have lost a couple of pounds this last week! When I did Atkins, I didn't really lose anything over a very long time, and I didn't feel great. And I was doing induction 90% of the time, convinced my carb level / drinking was impeding weightloss. I was also excercising A LOT. So my carb level for losing should have been quite high.

I have a theory that if your body is working well and getting everything it needs (which I now feel mine is) you are more likely to lose weight. I was convinced I had a thyroid problem, and it might be that I did. There is something I'm eating now (coconut oil?) that is making my metabolism go faster.

I won't stuff myself with fruit, but I now realize restricting it is also pointless. There are so many good things in fruit that we still don't know that much about, as well as their effect on the human body.

What is your carb-level at the moment? I have no idea now how many carbs I'm eating - I just don't eat anything that isn't paleo and my body does the rest. Actually that's wrong! I do eat goats cheese but feel this is good for me so won't give it up. Oh yes and LOTS AND LOTS of veggies. And FAT. And stopping worrying about what the scales say!

Hope this helps.

Lou

Hi Loops!
Thanks for the answer! I am not so sure what my carb level is. I have really just started Atkins (induction) and feel low energy most of the time. I have struggled with eating disorder in the past so my feeling of fullness is all out of wack. A long time ago I tried the raw diet and lost way too much weight and was eating fruit all of the time (actually, I think that is where my e.d. started) with lots of fruit fats like avocado and olive oil. I think you are right in the fact we really don't know so much about carbs like fruit and how the effect the body. I think when I lost all that weight then, it was probably mostly muscle mass. I would really like to lose the weight now but am not so concerne about what the scales say, as long as I am losing fat and gaining muscle. I know what you mean, there is just 'something' about fruit, I don't know what it is though-- it seems to be quite cleansing in a way and definitely gives me more energy. I am just concerned I will harm my efforts now if I start eating lots of fruit in addition to meats and fats.
What do you think?

How many days have you been on induction?

It might be worth sticking it out to see if you get better. I know when I started induction on Atkins I felt AWFUL for the first week. Actually it didn't really hit until I think the 3rd day and I kept on having to lie down I had such low energy.

Well it did get better, but the fruit cravings never went away, and I really did get over my carb addiction. I don't want to discourage you, because I think Atkins is excellent for balancing blood sugar levels, and I think if you are in good health you WILL lose if you stick at it. However I have to be honest and say I did have other problems, probably due to sticking with induction for too long.

In the first couple of months, I had awful stomach problems. I never got really constipated, but I had stomach ache a lot, and lost a lot of good bacteria for some reason. I ended up having to take lots of acidophillus and a homeopathic thing as well, but it did go away (after about a month). Looking back on it I can't really believe I stuck it out for so long but I was convinced it was the only way to lose fat healthily.

I never experienced high energy either, and did feel 'clogged up' a lot of the time. However on the positive side I learnt how to really eat properly, my eczema improved quite a bit and my bulimic episodes were right down.

Oh, yeah, but I did get acne. I think this is hormonal though as I also did the raw food thing for a few months and acne just got worse.

I also think that it is really important to eat A LOT of veggies and fruit to keep things 'moving along'. I did notice on atkins despite not losing much weight, I did firm up quite a bit, well that is to say I started developing these HUGE muscles from tennis. When I went raw I also lost muscle and no fat, and now I am back to where I started (kinda).

Hey I think you should stick with induction, but if your body is really saying NO I NEED FRUIT, don't be scared to eat some, really. You may be like me and do better with a higher carb intake as long as it's natural like fruit. Just go slow and don't worry about it too much. Just cutting out bread & other carbs like rice, pasta etc will head you in the right direction.

I really don't think it's as straight down the line as Atkins thought. I do think it works, but I'm not sure everyone can be put in the same category regarding how different foods affect them. Just remember your health is paramount to getting anywhere regarding fat-loss.

Sorry this has been so loooooong.

Lou

I totally need fruit too! If I don't eat enough I start feeling kind of sick and nauseous. I also crave and eat a lot of vegetables. To feel right I definately eat a lot of fruit and also nuts. It seems to work for me! I'm not sure if I need more carbs or what, but I really do feel the best when I'm eating a reasonable amount of fruit.

Thanks for all your thoughts Loops. I still am torn though in what to do. I really feel just like giving up most days. I have something at the end of May and I would really like to be able to fit into my clothes. I find on Atkins I keep binging on dairy and high fat foods and peanut butter. Sounds weird I know. When I was raw I would eat copious amounts of fruits and still lost too much weight. I really would like to just focus on building muscle, but I have no energy on Atkins, even when I don't binge. I just feel so lost now. If I eat Paleo, just eating fruits and proteins, do you think would start losing inches? Again, the scale doesn't matter to me at all, its my stupid jeans that I want to wear again. Vegetables really make me bloat and for some reason constipate me, raw or cooked. Fruit is the only things that makes me 'go' (sorry to be graphic). If I kept it to meats, eggs, coconut oil/olive oil, and fruits, do you think that would be good and I would lose fat and not muscle? Berries don't do it for me though, I really like sweeter fruits and that is the problem since I am afraid of combining them with all the fat and cooked protein. Hmm, anyone have any ideas?

Oh hey -

I know exactly how you feel. Don't worry - it's crappy having clothes that don't fit. Ok, but first, you really need to buy a new pair of jeans for the short-term.

Second, although I know you hate to hear this, you do know that losing is a long-term effort, and the short-term is pretty much out of our hands?

It sounds to me (and please, I am only just becoming aquainted with my own bod) like you need more balance in your diet. I know induction is supposed to be a little disconcerting, but it's main aim is to improve the diet of people used to eating a lot of crappy carbs and sugar. My guess is you have been eating very good food, albeit it being one way or the other (raw to high protein/fat). One thing I am sure is, at this point, if you haven't been eating lots of non-nutritious stuff is YOU MUST TRUST YOUR BODY.

Just go easy. I am eating a fair amount of protein/fat, with a good amount of fruit. I do not adhere now to what other people tell me. I really believe my body knows best. And I am not a mega-metabolic monster either. I burn stuff slowly.

You sound like you really want an answer to all this. My puny advice would be, eat some fruit. Don't go overboard, but do eat some. Away from other foods. When it has gone down eat some protein. Then see how you feel. And don't worry too much about it. You do realize that being not overweight now, you can actually do OWL and still lose? Induction is pretty harsh, and you probably don't have to go this far to get success.

I totally agree about berries. I prefer peaches, oranges, grapes, bananas (yes, there is no restriction here). The trick is to not overdo it and really listen to your body (no emotional eating - eat to live, not live to eat etc). This does not mean starving yourself either!

Don't be scared of good food!

Loopsx