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  #16   ^
Old Sun, Jan-07-18, 08:01
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 11,655
Plan: ketosis/IF
Stats: 190/158/154 Male 67inches
Progress: 89%
Location: Ontario

Going down a bit of a niacinamide rabbit hole this morning, I came across this.

Niacin, the fountain of youth

Who would not want to live a long and healthy life? A freely available food supplement could help in this respect, scientists from ETH Zurich have demonstrated in roundworms. Vitamin B3 -- also known as niacin -- and its metabolite nicotinamide in the worms' diet caused them to live for about one tenth longer than usual.

As an international team of researchers headed by Michael Ristow, a professor of energy metabolism, has now experimentally demonstrated, niacin and nicotinamide take effect by promoting formation of so-called free radicals. "In roundworms, these reactive oxygen species prolong life," says Ristow.

"No scientific evidence for usefulness of antioxidants"

This might seem surprising as reactive oxygen species are generally considered to be unhealthy. Ristow's view also contradicts the textbook opinion championed by many other scientists. Reactive oxygen species are known to damage somatic cells, a condition referred to as oxidative stress. Particular substances, so-called antioxidants, which are also found in fruit, vegetables and certain vegetable oils, are capable of neutralising these free radicals. Many scientists believe that antioxidants are beneficial to health.

"The claim that intake of antioxidants, especially in tablet form, promotes any aspect of human health lacks scientific support," says Ristow. He does not dispute that fruit and vegetables are healthy. However, this may rather be caused by other compounds contained therein, such as so-called polyphenols. "Fruit and vegetables are healthy, despite the fact that they contain antioxidants," says the ETH-Zurich professor. Based on the current and many previous findings he is convinced that small amounts of reactive oxygen species and the oxidative stress they trigger have a health-promoting impact. "Cells can cope well with oxidative stress and neutralise it," says Ristow.

Substance mimics endurance sport

In earlier studies on humans, Ristow demonstrated that the health-enhancing effect of endurance sports is mediated via an increased formation of reactive oxygen species -- and that antioxidants abolish this effect. Based on the present study, he concludes that niacin brings about a similar metabolic condition to exercise. "Niacin tricks the body into believing that it is exercising -- even when this is not the case," says Ristow. Such compounds are known as "exercise mimetics."

The researchers conducted their experiments on the model organism Caenorhabditis elegans. This worm, which is merely one millimetre in length, can be easily maintained and has a lifespan of only a month, making it the ideal model organism for ageing research.

Also relevant for humans

The results of the study may also be of relevance for humans, says Ristow. After all, the metabolic pathway initiated by niacin is very similar in roundworms and higher organisms. Whether niacin has similar effects on the life expectancy of mice is the subject of Ristow's current research. Previous studies also suggest a health-enhancing effect of niacin in humans with elevated blood cholesterol levels.

Niacin and nicotinamide have been approved as dietary supplements for decades. Ristow could easily envisage the substances being used broadly for therapeutic purposes in the future. A whole series of foods naturally contain niacin, including meat, liver, fish, peanuts, mushrooms, rice and wheat bran. Whether nutritional uptake is sufficient for a health-enhancing or lifespan-extending effect, however, remains to be demonstrated, says Ristow.

Disputed impact of enzymes

The latest study on the effects of niacin and nicotinamide is based on a particular class of enzymes, the sirtuins, which convert niacin into nicotinamide. Moreover, they are also involved in gene regulation, helping to down regulate the activity of certain genes. Until today, scientists have been disputing whether sirtuins have a life-prolonging impact.

Ristow and his team's work now suggests that the activity of sirtuins actually prolongs life in roundworms. According to the study, however, the life-prolonging effect is not down to gene regulation, as has often been supposed in the past. Instead, the effect is due to the conversion of niacin into nicotinamide. Studying genetically modified roundworms that were unable to convert nicotinamide into certain other metabolic products, the scientists did not observe any lifespan extension, even after overexpression of sirtuins, which otherwise lead to an increased life expectancy.

There have been a number of studies looking at antioxidants and exercise, looks like Ristow was involved in that some.

Study by another group;

Background: Exercise practitioners often take vitamin C supplements because intense muscular contractile activity can result in oxidative stress, as indicated by altered muscle and blood glutathione concentrations and increases in protein, DNA, and lipid peroxidation. There is, however, considerable debate regarding the beneficial health effects of vitamin C supplementation.

Objective: This study was designed to study the effect of vitamin C on training efficiency in rats and in humans.

Design: The human study was double-blind and randomized. Fourteen men (27–36 y old) were trained for 8 wk. Five of the men were supplemented daily with an oral dose of 1 g vitamin C. In the animal study, 24 male Wistar rats were exercised under 2 different protocols for 3 and 6 wk. Twelve of the rats were treated with a daily dose of vitamin C (0.24 mg/cm2 body surface area).

Results: The administration of vitamin C significantly (P = 0.014) hampered endurance capacity. The adverse effects of vitamin C may result from its capacity to reduce the exercise-induced expression of key transcription factors involved in mitochondrial biogenesis. These factors are peroxisome proliferator–activated receptor co-activator 1, nuclear respiratory factor 1, and mitochondrial transcription factor A. Vitamin C also prevented the exercise-induced expression of cytochrome C (a marker of mitochondrial content) and of the antioxidant enzymes superoxide dismutase and glutathione peroxidase.

Conclusion: Vitamin C supplementation decreases training efficiency because it prevents some cellular adaptations to exercise.

The problem here might be that vitamin c is doing its job. Maybe stress can be good, unless what you're trying to do is trigger a positive adaptation to that stress. No stress, no reason to adapt. That doesn't necessarily mean that there can't be some benefit if there is some sort of pathological state of excess oxidation as opposed to an environmental stressor that can be adapted to.

There are also studies looking at cold baths etc. to decrease inflammation after working out. They work, less inflammation. But they seem to impair muscle growth. Again, reduce the stress, reduce the adaptation to the stress.

A study I was looking at in my journal some months back mentioned something about anti-inflammatories like aspirin or tylenol. Young, healthy people working out were given anti-inflammatories--they seemed to interfere with muscle growth. Older, insulin resistant people working out, given anti-inflammatories had instead an increase in lean mass. There could be a sweet spot for some of this stuff, how you get there depending on where you started out.
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  #17   ^
Old Tue, Jan-16-18, 16:07
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 10,137
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/161/150 Female 67
Progress: 84%
Location: USA

Cool stuff, teaser. Now, the querticin I have been taking IS polyphenols.
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  #18   ^
Old Thu, Jan-18-18, 05:23
Meetow Kim Meetow Kim is offline
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Posts: 64
Plan: Atkins Concept
Stats: 225/205/175 Male 70.5"
Progress: 40%
Location: Central Virginia

I'm just talking "out-text" here. I am not on the level of information consumption or contemplation you folks seem to be, so this is opinion writing that follows.

This stuff is way over my head, and I suspect its over the heads of many, including those that write articles on "stuff". At what point do we stop pinballing from study to study? How controlled do we really know the subjects of the study are? I'm referring to the humans of course...rats and worms are even more dubious to me as in relation to humans.

I'm not saying all studies are wrong, but with so much information, often contradictory, how does the average non scientist or doctor really know the answer in the end? I do believe a doctor who has been practicing 30 years and has told patients to do or take "X" and see's THOSE patients over that 30 years and sees real world results. What we actually see in media and medical what has reached our eyes. We have a medical community that is insistent that serum cholesterol is what causes plaque and heart disease, yet other studies, one massive one in Europe contradicts that "known fact" that has Americans taking poison statins for instance (I mention this a lot because I'm one of those people that, thankfully, cant tolerate statins, so I dont take them). While a lot of doctors talk down supplements, in the case of statins they admit these drugs strip us of natural CoQ10 and recommend a supplement! Supplements that other "experts" tell us are not nearly absorbing as well as we need and not nearly as cardiac protective as the coQ10 our bodies naturally produce...the CoQ10 we are intentionally stripping from us with drugs supposedly to protect our heart! It seems nonsensical on its face to me...but maybe I'm just weird and skeptical.

But why does my skepticism seem less with supplements? I think its because I have at least as much trust in homeopathic stuff that is not driven by corporations as much. I dont take supplements because the supplement manufacturer has ads on TV or elsewhere...the more a supplement is pushed in media or by anyone making money on it (ever hear of Monavie? A pyramid scheme, yet the stuff probably has some good things in it...that I will NOT pay that kind of money for), the less apt I am to buy it. Every supplement I take is based more on either doctors advice, who doesn't make money on the supplements like they might pushing a scrip; and my own research reading what nutritionists, herbal health folks, and end users who report at least psychosomatic results, which the placebo effect is proven to actually work in some cases! The power of the cant be measured in a blood test all the time. Positivity itself is a healing power.

One of those linked articles refers to pomegranate. Yea, hard to believe the stuff is bad for you...and a pomegranate is not bad for most people...yet POM juice, loaded with sugar, we all know here...its the sugar that's bad! I love pomegranate juice, but I refuse to be fleeced by the price of the stuff and now that I'm paying attention to sugar, I'm clear on this. Plus I'd rather have natural sour cherry juice if given a choice.

Green tea. Asians. I believe them. So I drink it, especially around flu season...but I also get the flu shot. We also have local herbal hippies and natural farms and communes nearby we buy the natural stuff from....including vegetable seeds specifically bred for our region. They sell wonderful tea blends for wellness that cant hurt. I wont delve in to all the herbals...there are so many. Again, I have as much trust in herbals as I do big pharma.

Turmeric. Again, an Asian thing. The case study is part of a continent. But I'm not paying through the nose for the stuff to take capsules. I buy it in bulk from a spice retailer, it lasts forever. I use it in the winter when I'm drinking cups of broth or bouillon...that I add capsicum sauce to...because I believe capsicum is really good for you. I add turmeric and hot sauce to my drinking broth, and try to have that after my two cups of coffee and cup of green tea every day (now that I work from home most of the time, this is easier to do).

My biggest skepticism with supplements is there is no way, short of hiring the local university to analyze them, to know if what they claim is in the supplement is true. Kind of like we "trust" that nutrition label on foods. But who is verifying these? Each batch?

I take both Niacin and 1000mg of vitamin C every day. Both suggested by doctors who rarely seem to promote supplements. Many doctors will tell you if you are eating a balanced diet, you dont need supplements, including omega 3's. But other doctor's who see me say either the supplements I take Which include much more than those two, are either "good stuff" or simply, "not going to hurt".

What I dont do, is assume that the expensive supplements are the best or most pure. Just because you bought them in a store with employees that seem to be in that "world" and the products they sell are outrageously expensive, is no guarantee of purity or quality. Gilded packaging does not make the supplement better.

Many in here are far more well read on this stuff, cancer survivors...and suffer many more ailments than I ever all actually make me feel so fortunate. As I write in my booze thread, it seems unfair that I have drank all my life and smoked much of it...still do smoke here and there if the weather is nice outside...I've done many illicit drugs in my youth...enough that one might wonder why I'm alive today. I worked hard and partied/drank-smoked hard for decades...and so many people out there have so many ailments and never did any of that. My blood numbers are fairly decent, I've had x-rays, MRI, CT scans and C-protein tests, etc....and no matter how much I worry I have that "tumor" from all my unhealthy behavior, the medical field keeps telling me I'm fine and should cut back on the drinking and just lose some weight!...and take a poison statin because the cholesterol levels that were good 15 years ago are no longer good enough. What's next...the LDL needs to be in negative numbers? How much pharmaceuticals will it take? Yea, not this guy, but I will take plant sterols and red yeast rice!

Go figure.
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