Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low-Carb Studies & Research / Media Watch > Low-Carb War Zone
User Name
Password
FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #691   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 16:48
Fauve Fauve is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,274
 
Plan: Carnivore
Stats: 167/135/127 Female 63
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: Victoria, BC
Default

I, for one, would love to have some guidance from you, Bear. I am now on my 3rd week of this carnivore diet, and I have a few questions.

1. How do I learn to eat red meat again?
I have all but forgotten how to eat red meat. In the last fifteen years, I have gradually replaced it with chicken and salmon, deemed better for my health. I used to love red meat, and it came as a shock to me when it did not taste as good as I remembered, especially the fat. I can't eat the fat anymore. How do I learn to like it again? Is is even necessary for me to eat the fat? Can't I just eat the lean meat with lots of butter?

2. Is green tea good for us?
I used to be an avid coffee drinker, but after my adrenals collapsed, I was advised to forget about coffee. I started drinking green tea because of the good antioxidants. Don't laugh!

3. How much exercise?
Now Bear, remember that I am 58 and that I have been fairly inactive for the last fifteen years (when I collapsed with CFS).
I do one-hour walks most days, and I just started lifting weights at your suggestion. Baby weights and 30 minutes workouts every other day.
Is it ok as a beginning? Do you have any other suggestion?

I will be very thankful for your time and your suggestions.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #692   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 17:10
ChicknLady's Avatar
ChicknLady ChicknLady is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,046
 
Plan: Low carb
Stats: 153/150/140 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 23%
Location: Pennsylvania
Default

Hi Bear. Just wanted to say a quick "thankyou' for joining this forum, and for sharing your 47 years worth of experience to us relative "newbies" here to your way of eating. Please keep posting, because you've really struck a chord here with alot of people, and opened alot of eyes.
Reply With Quote
  #693   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 17:15
theBear theBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 311
 
Plan: zero-carb
Stats: 140/140/140 Male 5'6"
BF:
Progress:
Default

Yes, I am interested in seeing if, by holding this discussion, I can help other people who have naturally heavy constitutions find a way around their acculturation.

Reality checks are very useful.

Anyone who assumes I am not stating most emphatically that the all meat diet is the healthiest way a human can nourish the body has obviously got some sort of mental block going (i.e.: "... not arguing the healthfulness of a carnivorous diet..."). To this I say: Pay better attention. The term 'unnatural' is meaningless with regard to diet which is cultural, and therefore whatever is taught to be considered as food is perfectly 'natural' to humans- we ARE our culture. If it was not unhealthy this forum would not exist.

Five pounds of bodyfat? This represents ~20,000 calories. if you eat nothing at all (total water only fast), and burn a normal 2500 cal/day (17,500,/wk) you will drop 4.5 pounds of pure fat, and the rest of your loss would be water and some lean muscle mass. If you are eating high fat, then a loss of 2-3 pounds of actual bodyfat is a very good result. If your scale says you lost five, then you are showing some water retention loss. I have mentioned that salt interferes with fat metabolism- it also causes water retention and is hard on both the kidneys and the skin. Commercial mayo contains both high salt and bad (unsat) oils.

Body fat mass is not 100% fat- it is a living and very active tissue. I have a study in my (misplaced) cache wherein tests were done that indicate high body fat mass suppresses thyroid by means of a so far unidentified messenger, rather than a low thyroid causing fatness.

Skin aging is a result of three factors: Due to the multiple function of our outermost surface cover, Many things pass through it- oxygen is absorbed and carbon dioxide released, excess salt and many other substances are shed via sweat (sweating is good). In this regard the skin is like both a lung and a kidney. This is why you should bathe often (not necessarily with soap) to keep the skin permeable, avoid spending too much time in air conditioned places, and not ingest any extra salt. Salt is hard on the pores and ages skin. Insulin damages collagen and is the cause of stretch marks, wrinkles and sagging. Too much sun may induce skin cancers in susceptible individuals, reduces flexibility and also damages collagen.

Superstitious religions are also taught to the very young, so the illogic of religion is buried so deeply that science training- which conflicts with every 'faith'- has little or no effect. It is even true that there are some fine scientists who can actually proclaim themselves to be "Christians" without blushing- even though it is totally anomalous. So, do not play down or underestimate the enormous power of acculturation to override logic and intelligence. A dialect spoken during childhood and adolescence is usually kept always, even after moving to a place where a radically different dialect is spoken. Diet is the same.

This is not to say that a way cannot be found to deal with acculturation, and that is what all this is about- finding that way. I did it but I cannot figure out how and why I managed when others seemingly cannot.

My statements may seem didactic, but that is just my 'way of speaking', it does not mean that I think everything I say is an absolute. I try to keep to what I have experienced, but like everyone else, I instinctively look for an explanation.

Last edited by theBear : Wed, Mar-15-06 at 17:18. Reason: spelling
Reply With Quote
  #694   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 17:56
theBear theBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 311
 
Plan: zero-carb
Stats: 140/140/140 Male 5'6"
BF:
Progress:
Default

Red meat should be fresh, never been frozen, well marbled and only cooked very little on the outside in a hot skillet with melted fat of the same kind. Fat is naturally delicious if fresh, but nasty if it gets old before cooking. Garlic and other spices may be used, but just plain meat should tasted wonderful.

The fat on red meat as well as the lean is about the best nutrition you can find. I do not understand how a person could ever 'lose the taste for', or 'forget how to eat', red meat. My wife was a vegetarian for 11 years when I met her, but on smelling my steak at dinner on our first date, she asked for a bite, and loved it.

I cannot comment on green tea, considered by many to be a panacea. I generally like anything with caffeine in it. I don't think coffee is hard on the adrenals, but you do lose tolerance for it as you age. Nowadays I only drink one cup, early in the morning. If I need or want a little boost later I use NoDoz.

Exercise:

It is not optimum (at any age) to perform heavy exercises more than one, or a max of two days a week. At 58 you simply must take enough time to recover from each workout so you can become stronger and more fit. Walking burns calories, but does nothing much for aerobic fitness- ride a bike (stationary or free ride) or run for that. Best to do it on the same day, and just before your weight training. Do only your normal activities during the days off. I began lifting for the first time on the day after my 55th birthday, and tried all the different routines, eliminating most until I found what works best. I have 16 years of training experience now, and I think I know pretty well how an older body should best be trained. There is no upper limit on age to train, everyone will benefit from performing concentrated exercise. Naturally the younger you start, the easier it will be- and the health benefits may be greater in the long term.

Gradually increase the weight as you gain strength. I.e., if after ten reps, you can do some more, increase the weight a bit until 7 or 8 is all you can finish. The idea is to get stronger, and the body is essentially very conservative, not adding any more muscular strength than is necessary, so you must challenge your body to get the best value for your effort. Do not do any exercise which hurts during its performance, although it is to be expected that you will have a little (not very unpleasant) muscle soreness for the next day or two. Exercise causes some micro-damage, which stimulates the muscle. Remember to stretch once you have warmed up- this is very important. After working out for several months this soreness will become almost unnoticeable.

Last edited by theBear : Wed, Mar-15-06 at 17:57. Reason: spell.
Reply With Quote
  #695   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 18:13
theBear theBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 311
 
Plan: zero-carb
Stats: 140/140/140 Male 5'6"
BF:
Progress:
Default

Oh, and keep your workouts brief- do only three sets of one exercise for each body part. It helps to have a book so you know the proper form for each exercise- like Gold's Gym or Arnold Swartzenegger's bodybuilding books. Bill Pearl's 'Keys to the Kingdom' is definitely over the top, but has every exercise variation anyone ever dreamt up in it. You do not need a lot of variation, stick to what works. Work into it gradually. Start with one set of each exercise for a couple or three weeks, then move up to two sets. After a couple of months go to three. You will need patience, it takes some time to SEE the results, although you will start to feel great very quickly. Remember- exercise will not make you thin, only a proper diet can do that.
Reply With Quote
  #696   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 19:00
ItsTheWooo's Avatar
ItsTheWooo ItsTheWooo is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 4,815
 
Plan: My Own
Stats: 280/118/117.5 Female 5ft 5.25 in
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BawdyWench
If veggies are so good for you, why is it that in our culture, we refer to people who are brain dead (or those we just THINK are) as "vegetables," and why do we refer to the act of lounging on the couch doing nothing but getting fat "vegging out"?

I don't know if you were joking or not (it's hard to pick up subtle sarcasm online ) so I apologize if this sounds ridiculously robot-like in it's lack of humor. The cultural slang use of the word vegetable to imply unconscious states (tv watching/coma) comes from the fact that plant life is capable of little to no environmental awareness (perception). Therefore, a human who is rendered less conscious by disease or leasure activity can be considered a vegetable or vegging out.
Reply With Quote
  #697   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 19:03
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,791
 
Plan: Carnivore
Stats: 212/179/160 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Rural Maine
Default

Yup, trying to be funny, but also just curious why these expressions would be in our culture if vegetables were believed to be good for you.

Why not "meating out" or "he's a T-bone." Granted, we do have "meat-head," but nothing else.

Both curious and funny.
Reply With Quote
  #698   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 19:32
Wyvrn's Avatar
Wyvrn Wyvrn is offline
Dog is my copilot
Posts: 1,448
 
Plan: paleo/lowcarb
Stats: 210/162/145 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 74%
Location: Olympia, WA
Default

People are also called pig and cow, it's never a compliment.

Wyv
Reply With Quote
  #699   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 19:33
ItsTheWooo's Avatar
ItsTheWooo ItsTheWooo is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 4,815
 
Plan: My Own
Stats: 280/118/117.5 Female 5ft 5.25 in
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
Anyone who assumes I am not stating most emphatically that the all meat diet is the healthiest way a human can nourish the body has obviously got some sort of mental block going (i.e.: "... not arguing the healthfulness of a carnivorous diet..."). To this I say: Pay better attention. The term 'unnatural' is meaningless with regard to diet which is cultural, and therefore whatever is taught to be considered as food is perfectly 'natural' to humans- we ARE our culture. If it was not unhealthy this forum would not exist.

You really should make sure you understand what a person is saying before you go and belittling them for a lack of reading comprehension (and then, ironically, tell them to pay attention).

I was explaining to hellistile that your position is more anti than it is pro. You are not here to tell us that eating animal meat and fat - veggies optional - is one of many healthy ways to live. If this were your message (pro your way of life) I don't think this thread would be almost 50 pages of arguments. You are here to tell us that eating animal meat and fat is the only healthy way to live; you are telling us veggies are harmful and not better than many other harmful substances.

Quote:
Superstitious religions are also taught to the very young, so the illogic of religion is buried so deeply that science training- which conflicts with every 'faith'- has little or no effect. It is even true that there are some fine scientists who can actually proclaim themselves to be "Christians" without blushing- even though it is totally anomalous. So, do not play down or underestimate the enormous power of acculturation to override logic and intelligence.

While possessing faith itself is not logical and scientific, the existence of faith in a person does not necessarily make that person illogical and unscientific. This is because your faith system can exist along side a respect for what you see and know. As long as a faith system (christianity for example) does not conflict with observed facts and logical reality (science), there is nothing illogical or unscientific about a christian scientist.

If anyone here is behaving illogically and irrationally it is you. You speak of logic and science and fact but so far your proof comes down to this:

I say I'm really intelligent. I say I've been eating this way a long time. I say I'm healthy.
Therefore all of my statements are automatically correct and do not require substantiation. Everyone who disagrees with me is illogical.


Correct me if I am wrong, but it is not logical to form an argument with "because I said so" as the exclusive piece of evidence. Yet this is what you have done fron the inception of this thread. You are using your self-proclaimed intelligence, age, length of dieting and health as the sole piece of evidence to flesh out your statements and make them at all substantial.
Even if we assume you are correct in your perceptions of yourself (or, alternately, not lying)... this has nothing to do with the logical validity of your claims.
One would need to possess a certain faith in you for your claims to mean anything at all simply because you say them.

... Having established this, wouldn't it be correct to say you are expecting people to have faith in you to substantiate your claims? Wouldn't it be correct to say your entire argument is not rational by extension?
How ironic, considering how you claim it is a fundamental lack of logic (intelligence and/or acculturation) that leads others to not agree with you.

The only way you can even claim to be arguing logically is if we assume you are afflicted with a massively inflated ego, to the point where you are no longer capable of accurately perceiving reality (i.e. you cannot understand you are not supreme, unique or divinely special, so you cannot understand your statements are not fact simply because you say they are). Even though your argument would still be invalid, at least it would explain why you could not see this.

So the question I have for you bear is this. Are you just committing a simple logical error, or, are you just a tremendous narcissist?
Reply With Quote
  #700   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 19:34
theBear theBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 311
 
Plan: zero-carb
Stats: 140/140/140 Male 5'6"
BF:
Progress:
Default

bawd, The slang is derived from a plant (vegetable) being a passive-living entity, with no ego or the ability/need to move around. It has nothing to do with diet.
Reply With Quote
  #701   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 19:40
ItsTheWooo's Avatar
ItsTheWooo ItsTheWooo is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 4,815
 
Plan: My Own
Stats: 280/118/117.5 Female 5ft 5.25 in
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BawdyWench
Yup, trying to be funny, but also just curious why these expressions would be in our culture if vegetables were believed to be good for you.

Why not "meating out" or "he's a T-bone." Granted, we do have "meat-head," but nothing else.

Both curious and funny.

LOL Okay. I am a social retard haha. I have a hard time telling if people are serious or not online. I usually need some kind of suggestive smilies, or, it has to be really really obvious otherwise I assume they were serious
Reply With Quote
  #702   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 19:47
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Well... there's "porking out". A beautiful young woman used to be called a "Tomato". Hmm... I'm sure there must be more. Studly young men are called Chok Boys which is a play on the vegetable Bok Choy. When you see one you ask him if he'd like to take a wok with you. Ok, just made that up.
Reply With Quote
  #703   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 19:53
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
Posts: 8,758
 
Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 116%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
Default

Calling someone a 'dog' is not a complement. People who follow without thinking are called sheep. When you make a mistake that affects others, you are the goat. A person who is catty is not nice to be around.
Reply With Quote
  #704   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 19:57
Wyvrn's Avatar
Wyvrn Wyvrn is offline
Dog is my copilot
Posts: 1,448
 
Plan: paleo/lowcarb
Stats: 210/162/145 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 74%
Location: Olympia, WA
Default

But if someone is extra nice, they might be called a peach!

Wyv
Reply With Quote
  #705   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-06, 19:58
theBear theBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 311
 
Plan: zero-carb
Stats: 140/140/140 Male 5'6"
BF:
Progress:
Default

Do you read? I have already said don't bother with this nonsense, as I do not have the time to waste on it (I said I wouldn't, so why am I bothering to even respond?). I have no problem whatsoever understanding exactly what you have said, trust me.

If you are interested in diet, fine, but if you are only interested in loudly beating your own drum- which action has only shown yourself as interested in something else, why not find some other thread to lurk about on.

I know from my extensive personal experience what is true and works and what does not- not because of theories. I see no utility in being tentative or equivocal in what I have to say regarding what has proven true and what has not.

Just like the black box, it matters not what or why something works, only that it does. After 47 years, it gets way beyond conjecture. I am positive, because of how I have lived. If you don't like the truth I am describing about diet and the human body, that is your loss, not mine. And judging from what the rest around here have to say, you are in the minority.

You may 'be in everything', but I'm sorry: IMHO, so far you have contributed zilch of value to our discussion.
Reply With Quote
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:36.


Copyright © 2000-2024 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.