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  #31   ^
Old Fri, Jun-16-17, 10:31
M Levac M Levac is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,230
 
Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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Fat cells grow in number (and fat tissue grows as well) by a process called insulin-induced lipohypertrophy, primarily with chronic hyperinsulinemia. This is permanent growth. This process is most obvious in diabetics type 1 who inject insulin in the same spot for years.

This means two things for us. It's very hard to grow fatter when we're lean, it's very easy to grow fat again if we have grown fatter before. That's because it takes time for fat tissue to grow (basically it's the same for all tissues, i.e. muscles, bones, etc), and fat cells can fill up very quickly such as after a meal for example.

As for edema in the legs especially around the ankles and calves, I get that too. I'm sick, I got some infection or something, this is what causes the edema. I didn't get any of that before when I went low-carb and zero-carb after that. It's not a normal effect of going low-carb. On the contrary, going low-carb should cause a loss of water especially in the first few days, that's what I saw too in the first few days. In fact, that's what opponents of low-carb say about it as a way to denigrate low-carb, i.e. "it's not fat, it's water!". Yeah, sure, but 5lbs of water - is 5lbs!
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  #32   ^
Old Fri, Jun-16-17, 12:18
Mama Sebo's Avatar
Mama Sebo Mama Sebo is offline
Posts: 4,530
 
Plan: lc, highish fat,
Stats: 224/150.5/124 Female 64 inches
BF:44%/29%/20%
Progress: 74%
Location: Gaborone, Botswana
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Yes, I've always wished for the vocabulary to say, its really doesnt matter if its water, thats how fat is stored, with water!! So whatever the reason, take it!!
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  #33   ^
Old Fri, Jun-16-17, 15:54
Zei Zei is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,215
 
Plan: Carb reduction in general
Stats: 230/213/180 Female 5 ft 9 in
BF:
Progress: 34%
Location: Texas
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Yeah, Martin's explanation of growing more number of fat cells was what I'd understood, too. I'm pretty sure I have a lot more fat cells just waiting to be filled up at any opportune moment than I did back a loooong time ago in a galaxy far far away.
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  #34   ^
Old Fri, Jun-16-17, 19:24
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4rules 4rules is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 100
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 184.4/184.4/145 Female 5 4 in
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Hi This is not the doc who told me about the fat cells. So after reading your post I had to look into this because this is what I have always believed. The two Doctors below confirmed what I was told.

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Dr. Mehmet Oz, MD , Cardiology (Cardiovascular Disease), answered
As adults, obese people do not have more fat cells than thin people, but their fat cells are larger. The same is true in reverse: When an obese or overweight person loses weight, the fat cells shrink. But the number of fat cells doesn't change, just their size. Large fat cells have been linked to some of the chronic health conditions related to obesity, such as diabetes.

Dr. Michael Roizen, MD - Cleveland, OH - Internal Medicine Follow
Dr. Michael Roizen, MD , Internal Medicine, answered
The difference between obese people and thin people isn't the number of fat cells; it's the size of them. You don't make more fat cells the fatter you get; you have the same number of fat cells you had as an adolescent. The only difference is that the fat globules within each cell increase as you store more fat. By the way, muscles work the same way; you don't make more muscle cells; the muscle cells get larger.
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  #35   ^
Old Fri, Jun-16-17, 20:54
Zei Zei is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,215
 
Plan: Carb reduction in general
Stats: 230/213/180 Female 5 ft 9 in
BF:
Progress: 34%
Location: Texas
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What I'd heard is that (at least for females) there are key times that new fat cells do get made such as adolescence and pregnancy to aid in a female's successful reproduction. If that does happen, it's likely Dr. Oz and the other doctors know but are talking in these statements specifically about obesity and associated weight gain/loss, not pregnancy.

Last edited by Zei : Fri, Jun-16-17 at 21:07.
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  #36   ^
Old Sat, Jun-17-17, 07:25
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WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 9,910
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/162/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 83%
Location: USA
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I have also realized just how many "experts" confidently state things as fact when they have, in fact, been pulled out of their own anatomy that also grows larger with fat storage.
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  #37   ^
Old Sun, Jun-18-17, 16:16
M Levac M Levac is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,230
 
Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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This is a tangent to the main topic so I'll end with this. Insulin-induced lipohypertrophy is well documented in diabetics type 1. Do a simple search and find literally tons of info on that. Second, there's a drug called Adipotide or prohibitin-targeting peptide 1 (PTP-1), currently in experimental trial (interestingly for cancer rather than for obesity, probably because of its effect on insulin sensitivity and blood glucose), that can shrink fat tissue permanently, just like liposuction but it's a drug not surgery. This drug works only on the obese, there's no effect on the lean. The implication here is that the obese grow fat tissue (by increasing the number of fat cells, and by increasing the number of blood vessels needed to supply blood to those new fat cells), and this new fat tissue is fundamentally different from the fat tissue we're born with, different from the fat tissue we have before we grow fatter through insulin and hyperinsulinemia.

Insulin-induced lipohypertrophy is the name of the phenomenon. The mechanism is preadipocyte (a sort of stem cell, specifically for adipocytes) proliferation and differentiation, a quick search will give ample info on that too.

It's likely that those docs who still believe fat cells don't grow in number, also believe we grow fatter because of excess calories, and thus they have no clue about the actual mechanisms involved in growing fat tissue either way.
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