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  #1   ^
Old Sun, May-06-07, 19:15
RainboZ RainboZ is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 156
 
Plan: VLC; no sugar;no gluten
Stats: 188.7/153.1/138 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 70%
Question Can someone clarify this for me????

I just got the PP book and read it over the weekend. I plan to modify my Atkins diet with the minimum protein req (I think I was eating too much) and spread out my carbs. Like many people, I seem to like parts of one and parts of the other. Hopefully as long as I stay with good carbs and the proper amount, I should be fine. I am nursing, so I will add fats until I only lose 1 lb a week (safe per my doctor).

Question - I love having the flaxseed/protein powder cereal in the am once in a while. The Eades don't seems to care much for flax - do I need to cut it from my diet???
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  #2   ^
Old Sun, May-06-07, 20:14
ElleH ElleH is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 10,352
 
Plan: PP/Atkins Maintenance
Stats: 178/137/137 Female 5'6"
BF:28%
Progress: 100%
Location: Northern Virginia
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I believe that in PPLP, the Eades slightly adjusted their position on flax. They now say that if you are healthy, you can use flax.

I think...I just read PPLP, and it so full of info. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
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  #3   ^
Old Mon, May-07-07, 11:37
RainboZ RainboZ is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 156
 
Plan: VLC; no sugar;no gluten
Stats: 188.7/153.1/138 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 70%
Smile

Thanks Elle. I've been following some of your posts about higher fat in your diet and as I am currently nursing, I was concerned about getting enough calories low carbing.

I did look into some of the OD stuff and found it very interesting. I cannot eat organ meats though - YUK! My parent's force fed us liver as children and I vomit at the smell....

I am using the ratio recommended on OD for a couple of reasons. The higher carbs will keep me out of ketosis (not that I think it is a bad thing while nursing, I just don't like to be crabby....). I felt on Atkins that I was eating way too much protein, and most likely was. I like the higher fat. I did read that the ratio he recommends is based on breastmilk, so I guess it can't be that far off!

I've been eating the ratio for 2 days and do feel much better. I am not ravenously hungry like I have been. I do not mind if I don't lose weight as long as my bp comes down and I feel this good.

Anyway, I appreciate you posting! Thanks!
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  #4   ^
Old Mon, May-07-07, 18:51
LarryAJ's Avatar
LarryAJ LarryAJ is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 702
 
Plan: PP/PPLP
Stats: 150/140/140 Male 68 inches
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Northern Virginia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainboZ
Question - I love having the flaxseed/protein powder cereal in the am once in a while. The Eades don't seems to care much for flax - do I need to cut it from my diet???


In Protein Power Lifeplan The Drs. Eades have a pair of paragraphs on flax oil.
Quote:
Flax seed oil is a rich source of ALA. If all the desaturation and elongation enzymes are working in top order, the body converts the ALA in flax seed oil to EPA and DHA just fine. If, on the other hand, these enzymes aren't working up to snuff, then there can be problems. Most of our patients have disorders that interfere with the proper function of these enzymes and, therefore, don't respond particularly well to flax seed oil because it's not the flax seed oil itself that they need. It is the EPA and DHA end products of flax seed-oil conversion. We have much better results with our patients when we give them the actual EPA and DHA directly. For these reasons, we wrote in Protein Power that we didn't like flax seed oil and didn't recommend it. And we got more criticism from more people for that one little section than we got for the rest of the book in its entirety.

We have reevaluated our position on the flax seed-oil controversy that we unwittingly started. If people are reasonably healthy, we don't have a problem giving them flax seed oil. We actually take it ourselves sometimes. But, we still think it is preferable to take the end products EPA and DHA, which we actually need, than to take the parent fat, ALA, in the form of flax seed oil and let our bodies do the conversion. Some people refuse to take the EPA and/or the DHA because they can't stand the taste or they are vegans and refuse to eat food of animal origin. For these folks, flax seed oil is great. It gives them a good source of omega-3 fats that they otherwise wouldn't get. But taking flax seed oil is kind of like buying crude oil and running it through your home distillery to make gasoline for your car. If that's the only way you can get gasoline, then that's what you have to do. If you can buy the gasoline already distilled, however, it's much more efficient to do that and avoid all the hassle of the home-distillation process.
I hope that will clear it up for you.

You really, REALLY, need to get PPLP and read it. While PP is a good book to start with, which I did, it really is just HALF the PP story. PP is the practical, do this, book with some of the science added at the end. PPLP turns the sequence around, explains WHY your body needs the nutrients it does. I think that PPLP does a MUCH better explanation of the science and is very readable for even the average person. PPLP then goes into how to use the information in a practical way. Knowing the science basics should give you the ability to “tweak” the way you use the diet for your own best results.

I did a quick check of Amazon.com and found lots of used paperback copies at around $6 including shipping. Actually a used hardcopy is cheaper starting at $4 or so including shipping. I bought the hardcopy new at FULL price - and GLAD I did! I have read it three times and marked it ALL up with notes stuck in it lots of places too. Very good reference book

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainboZ
I just got the PP book and read it over the weekend. I plan to modify my Atkins diet with the minimum protein req (I think I was eating too much) and spread out my carbs. Like many people, I seem to like parts of one and parts of the other. Hopefully as long as I stay with good carbs and the proper amount, I should be fine. I am nursing, so I will add fats until I only lose 1 lb a week (safe per my doctor).

One more reason for getting PPLP are the chapters The Fat of the Land and Calisthenics for the Brain . The paragraphs above came from the first and in the second the first section after the introduction is called “You’re a Fathead” which points out that the brain has a LOT of fat in it. Fat is VERY important for the growth of the brain. So you need to be eating a lot of good fat to feed your little one. Be sure you get enough omega 3 fats to balance out the excessive omega 6 in most of the food we can buy at the supermarket. If you are eating range feed beef, etc. the added omega 3 is not as important.
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  #5   ^
Old Mon, May-07-07, 19:01
ElleH ElleH is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 10,352
 
Plan: PP/Atkins Maintenance
Stats: 178/137/137 Female 5'6"
BF:28%
Progress: 100%
Location: Northern Virginia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainboZ
Thanks Elle. I've been following some of your posts about higher fat in your diet and as I am currently nursing, I was concerned about getting enough calories low carbing.

I did look into some of the OD stuff and found it very interesting. I cannot eat organ meats though - YUK! My parent's force fed us liver as children and I vomit at the smell....

I am using the ratio recommended on OD for a couple of reasons. The higher carbs will keep me out of ketosis (not that I think it is a bad thing while nursing, I just don't like to be crabby....). I felt on Atkins that I was eating way too much protein, and most likely was. I like the higher fat. I did read that the ratio he recommends is based on breastmilk, so I guess it can't be that far off!

I've been eating the ratio for 2 days and do feel much better. I am not ravenously hungry like I have been. I do not mind if I don't lose weight as long as my bp comes down and I feel this good.

Anyway, I appreciate you posting! Thanks!



You know, I feel the same way about organ meats. Except I always did like heavily breaded and fried chicken livers--I'm from SC, you know! Then it dawned on me that I could bread them in crushed pork rinds (another childhood favorite!) and they would probably be very good that way. I'm toying with giving that a try, would add some variety to my diet, and some organ meat, too!

Also, I have been toying with the idea of slowly upping my carbs to the OD levels just to see what would happen. I have been too afraid to go past 30g (full carbs, OD does not use net carbs, I don't think, but then again, Europe does not count fiber in their carb counts so it may indeed be net carbs!). I would probably use potato to get it up there, as he suggests. I don't ever plan to eat too many grains again (except in my binges, of course...GRRRR).

I would really love to have that book.
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  #6   ^
Old Tue, May-08-07, 08:28
RainboZ RainboZ is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 156
 
Plan: VLC; no sugar;no gluten
Stats: 188.7/153.1/138 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 70%
Smile

Larry - thanks for that info. It helps, but not sure how one would know if they couldn't take it... I am going to buy PPLP this weekend if they have it at the used book store.

I notice a difference in how my brain feels with the added fat in my diet. I was diagnosed a few years ago (about 7) with ADHD. I haven't been able to take Adderrall because of pregnancy/nursing. Cutting out the carbs and giving my brain fat does help me focus without the side effects of the drug. I hated taking it. It is good to hear that the extra fat is so good for the baby as well.

Elle - you may want to try a lower glycemic veggie for carbs versus potatoes. And if you never want to eat those again, just look into how they are grown.... Yuk again!

I was raised on potatoes (Irish in me), but I can't eat them anymore. My DS vomited the first time he tried some. So glad he doesn't like them - no french fries in his future....

I am contemplating getting the OD book as well. Not too sure I need to hear more than I have though. I am using their limit for protein since I was diagnosed with a gene mutation that makes protein synthesis difficult. I have to take a prescription vitamin B complex to keep my homocysteine levels down.

I abosolutely love this board! Thanks for the great info!
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  #7   ^
Old Tue, May-08-07, 17:31
Daryl's Avatar
Daryl Daryl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,427
 
Plan: ZC
Stats: 260/222/170 Male 5-10
BF:Huh?
Progress: 42%
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElleH
You know, I feel the same way about organ meats. Except I always did like heavily breaded and fried chicken livers--I'm from SC, you know! Then it dawned on me that I could bread them in crushed pork rinds (another childhood favorite!) and they would probably be very good that way. I'm toying with giving that a try, would add some variety to my diet, and some organ meat, too!

Also, I have been toying with the idea of slowly upping my carbs to the OD levels just to see what would happen. I have been too afraid to go past 30g (full carbs, OD does not use net carbs, I don't think, but then again, Europe does not count fiber in their carb counts so it may indeed be net carbs!). I would probably use potato to get it up there, as he suggests. I don't ever plan to eat too many grains again (except in my binges, of course...GRRRR).

I would really love to have that book.


I looked on abebooks, and there is a German edition lol. Have you seen this website, Elle?

http://www.cybernaut.com.au/optimal...tion/index.html

If not, I hope it helps.
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, May-09-07, 09:38
ElleH ElleH is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 10,352
 
Plan: PP/Atkins Maintenance
Stats: 178/137/137 Female 5'6"
BF:28%
Progress: 100%
Location: Northern Virginia
Default

I already feel like I'm eating too much food, so any carbs I add wil have to be dense ones. What's so bad about how their grown??? Dr K says they are great b/c they a very low allergenic rate...that is, hardly anyone is allergic to them. They are very "benign" according to him.
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  #9   ^
Old Fri, May-11-07, 17:12
RainboZ RainboZ is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 156
 
Plan: VLC; no sugar;no gluten
Stats: 188.7/153.1/138 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 70%
Default

Sorry it took me awhile to get back here. It is my understanding that potatos are grown in soil known as "muck" which is actually not a bad thing. Potatos are very susceptible to diseases and funguses so in addition to them being highly engineered to fight them off, they are also heavily treated with pesticides. I am not the potato queen so I may not be 100% on this, but I stay away from them - they are too high glycemic for me.

I used to love them! Now I just can't eat them.
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  #10   ^
Old Sun, May-13-07, 07:52
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,791
 
Plan: Carnivore
Stats: 212/179/160 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Rural Maine
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Time to showcase my ignorance. I've been low-carbing (mostly following Atkins and Protein Power) since around 1998. I've read PP and PPLP (among many other books) more times than I can count. And yet this thread has me scratching my head.

What is the OD everyone is talking about?
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  #11   ^
Old Sun, May-13-07, 09:30
lisaz8605's Avatar
lisaz8605 lisaz8605 is offline
Taking MY Turn
Posts: 10,849
 
Plan: Intuitive Eating
Stats: 240/220.8/190 Female 65
BF:
Progress: 38%
Location: NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BawdyWench
Time to showcase my ignorance. I've been low-carbing (mostly following Atkins and Protein Power) since around 1998. I've read PP and PPLP (among many other books) more times than I can count. And yet this thread has me scratching my head.

What is the OD everyone is talking about?

The Optimal Diet...I guess I'd call it a "companion piece" to what we're all already doing. Or, more specifically, the basis for the "Fatkins" many are trying.

Here is the link if you'd like to read up on it....http://homodiet.netfirms.com/
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  #12   ^
Old Sun, May-13-07, 09:52
Daryl's Avatar
Daryl Daryl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,427
 
Plan: ZC
Stats: 260/222/170 Male 5-10
BF:Huh?
Progress: 42%
Location: Texas
Default

Hmm, got this from the site:

"Glucose is specifically required by many tissues but does not have to be provided as such in the diet, since other dietary carbohydrates are readily converted to glucose, either during digestion (eg., starch) or subsequently in the liver (eg., fructose, galactose. Glucose is also formed from the glycerol moiety of fats and from glucogenic amino acids by gluconeogenesis. However, a minimum daily intake of carbohydrate (50 g) is recommended in humans to prevent ketosis and loss of muscle protein."
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  #13   ^
Old Sun, May-13-07, 11:07
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,324
 
Plan: vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
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Daryl, I take the recommendation as a recommendation and assume it was based on the "ketosis is bad for you" literature. I have gained, not lost, muscle on fewer carbs. I eat 30g ECC (although that's about 45g carbs before subtracting the fiber) because I gain weight and feel crappy if I eat more. But I do find the OD fat recommendations work for me, so I follow those.
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  #14   ^
Old Sun, May-13-07, 14:46
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,791
 
Plan: Carnivore
Stats: 212/179/160 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Rural Maine
Default

Sheesh. I should have known that. I have read about the Optimal Diet. To me, all these plans are simply variations on a theme. The ratios in the OD are interesting, though. I checked my Fitday records, and I'm pretty darned close to these ratios (when I'm actually on plan ), except that my protein is high according to his recommendations. He says it should be around 67 grams for me, but I'm probably much closer to the recommendations of the Eades (around 102 grams).

Thanks for the clarification!
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  #15   ^
Old Sun, May-13-07, 16:40
lisaz8605's Avatar
lisaz8605 lisaz8605 is offline
Taking MY Turn
Posts: 10,849
 
Plan: Intuitive Eating
Stats: 240/220.8/190 Female 65
BF:
Progress: 38%
Location: NY
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BawdyWench
Sheesh. I should have known that. I have read about the Optimal Diet. To me, all these plans are simply variations on a theme. The ratios in the OD are interesting, though. I checked my Fitday records, and I'm pretty darned close to these ratios (when I'm actually on plan ), except that my protein is high according to his recommendations. He says it should be around 67 grams for me, but I'm probably much closer to the recommendations of the Eades (around 102 grams).

Thanks for the clarification!


When I started to adjust my food intake based (loosely) on the OD I didn't want to sacrifice my PP protein levels, which are roughly the same as you. So what I found successful was approximately 100g protein, at least 150g fat and somewhere between 20-40 ECC (generally hitting 30 or so I think). In the last few weeks I've upped my carb levels and I'm trying to get into a successful eating groove with it but before I upped the carbs I was successful losing with those ratios.
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