I either drink my cream straight or add water to it, too. If I add too much water, it gets "chalky" unless it's highly flavored with sweeteners or cocoa or whatever. I make chocolate "milk" out of cream, water and Walden's Farms SF Chocolate Syrup. Its' delicious!

This myth will never die, will it? The 'carb advantage' of heavy cream has far more to do with portion size than actual nutritional makeup. And while the 'serving size' on the label may say 0 carbs, if you check that serving size, it's probably for far less than you're actually using, and was listed as 0g carbs because anything under .5g is allowed to round down to zero.

Compare equal portions of all the dairy products mentioned and the carb advantage of heavy cream over any fat level of milk or half and half disappears, or is not that significant unless you're drinking a pint a day of one or the other. Most people who need cream in their coffee can get away with just an oz. of heavy cream (the real deal, not thinned with water), but they may use far more than an oz. of regular milks, or even of half and half. Those little single serve half and half containers are a half-ounce. How many do you use? If it's more than two per cup of coffee, you might want to switch to heavy cream so that you can use LESS dairy in your coffee for the same taste--using a more intense flavor so that you can use less of it. If it's two of those containers per cup or less, stick with the half and half--easier to find at a coffee bar, same carb cost and it's cheaper in both $$ cost and amount of fat consumed in a day. And yeah, amount of fat consumed in a day CAN make a difference if you're small or very close to your goal.

But don't believe me...see for yourself. Go to www.fitday.com, or to the USDA website, or to www.nutritiondata.com (I prefer Fitday because you can punch in several items and compare them simultaneously.)

Compare the values for 1 fluid ounce of whole milk, 2% milk, skim milk, heavy cream, light cream and half and half. You will see that the protein and carb gram count for 1 fl. oz. of all of these milk products is exactly the same--1g--but that the fat grams for each of them at this serving size varies wildly from 0g (skim) to 1g (whole and 2% milk) to 3g for half and half, 6g for light cream and 11g for heavy cream.

If you're still in Fitday, change the serving size for the milks and creams you just selected to 2 fl. oz.--about the amount you'd add to two cups of coffee. You'll see that all of the milk choices are 3g carbs for 2 fl. oz., half and half is 3g carbs, and if you go to light cream or heavy cream, they're 2g carbs. You're only 'saving' 1g of carbs. Protein grams are the same for all the milks and light cream and half and half--2g. Heavy cream is only 1g protein for 2 fl. oz. But take a look at the fat grams for this serving size--you go from a low of 0 for skim milk to 1 for 2%, 2 for whole milk, and then up to 7, 12 and 22g fat for half and half, light cream and heavy cream respectively.

Can I eat 1 fl. oz. of heavy cream during the day? Um, yeah...in a heartbeat--1 oz. of heavy cream whips up into less than a tablespoon of whipped cream, and I can knock that down without even trying, not to mention how much I'd consume with two or three cups of coffee per day. It's very very easy too 'overeat' heavy cream if you drink a lot of coffee. So if you are going to eat a LOT of heavy cream because you've replaced all of your dairy with it, and you're NOT going to reduce the amount of dairy you use, then eating that amount of heavy cream may cost you.

I am not saying that eating full fat or choosing heavy cream is bad--I do it all the time. Whipped cream and cinnamon on a coffee turns it into a special occasion. But why choose heavy cream and thin it with water? That's like reconstituting evaporated milk...unless refrigeration and shelf life are issues, go with a more appropriate milk product--don't bother 'thinning' heavy cream. Depending on how much you use, you're not really 'saving' that much, and it costs a lot more. Use the dairy product that you think tastes best and is appropriate to what you want--and which enables you to use the least amount possible, and buy the smallest, non-ultrapasturized amount at a time so that it's as fresh as possible and as uncluttered with preservatives. But if you want your coffee as light as it gets with 1 fl. oz (two of the single serve half and half containers), then it makes absolutely NO difference whether you use half and half or cream, or milk to get it there...as long as you use the same amount of the lower fat dairy product that you'd use of the fuller fat dairy product. Protein Power won't care. A carb is a carb.



Personally, I do think full fat cheese tastes better...but I happen to prefer neufchatel to full fat cream cheese, and neuf is lower fat. Same consistency, same carbs/protein per ounce, and no more or less 'processed' than cream cheese--just lower fat. I also prefer natural emmentaler to most swiss cheese (a version of Swiss cheese which is naturally lower in sodium and fat and which has a nuttier taste.) If the carb count is the same and you want to lower fat, it's not a crime. It's not necessary to lower fat--but there's nothing wrong with making that choice.

What you DO want to avoid is processed cheeses. Get real cheeses from the cheese case or from cheese makers, and avoid the stuff masquerading as cheese that has been pre-sliced or pre-cubed and put into plastic packages.

And if, like some, eating full fat cheese DOESN'T make you stop eating when satisfied (or if you're never satisfied), then you might want to take a look at choosing naturally lower fat forms of cheese like emmentaler over swiss, neufchatel over cream cheese, dry grating cheeses over the more semi-solid ones, dry curd cottage cheese over creamed full fat, etc.



Actually, *any* berry is considered a low carb choice. Raspberries and black berries are actually much lower per cup (raw) at 8g ECC than blueberries at 16g ECC for the same portion size. For that matter, frozen unsweetened melon balls at 13g ECC per cup raw are lower than strawberries for the same portion size. There are plenty of carb-portion appropriate sizes of stone fruits like peaches, nectarines and plums, and even half a medium sized apple, some grapes, half a banana or a half a tangerine falls within meal limits.

re:

PP isn't about eating foods you don't like, especially not at the Hedonist level. Sometimes I have three large cups of coffee a day and I also use half and half in my morning shake. Unless you're dairy sensitive, it's not a problem.

7-10g ECC per meal is recommended to keep from producing insulin spikes and messing up your blood sugar. If you need to eat more carbs at a certain meal, and that doesn't mess up your blood sugars, that's fine...but the Eadeses do mention that if you have to eat more carbs, it's better to eat them earlier in the day than later.

And if you're trying to figure out which foods are the most appropriate for eating this way, make sure that you compare equal portion sizes--the sizes you'd actually consume, preferably--in making your decision. Sites like www.Fitday.com, the USDA and www.nutritiondata.com can be a lot of help with that.

Food Item: Milk, reduced fat, fluid, 2% milkfat
Food Quantity: 1 cup
Carbs: 11.4g
Dietary Fiber: 0g
Net Carbs: 11.4g

Food Item: Milk, whole, 3.25% milk fat
Food Quantity: 1 cup
Carbs: 11g
Dietary Fiber: 0g
Net Carbs: 11g

Food Item: Fat Free Milk
Food Quantity: 1/2 cup (250ml)
Carbs: 12g
Dietary Fiber: 0g
Net Carbs: 12g

Food Item: Milk, dry, non-fat, instant
Food Quantity: 1/3 cup
Carbs: 12g
Dietary Fiber: 0g
Net Carbs: 12g

Food Item: Skimmed Milk
Food Quantity: 1/2 cup (250ml)
Carbs: 12g
Dietary Fiber: 0g
Net Carbs: 12g

It was not my intent to add t any confusion, but these are the numbers I was looking at. The portion size listed for skim is only 1/2 cup. For whole milk it lists an entire cup. So 24g for a cup of skim vs 11g for a cup of whole milk?

Another site listed 12 grams of carbs per cup of skim and 11 per cup of whole milk.

Since you get way more bang for your buck from cream. Even if I am confused, I am sticking with cream.

As for the berries, I did a check on all the types of berries available in my store. Blueberries and strawberries were the lowest. The raspberries and blackberries listed a lot more carbs than the blueberries and strawberries. Different varieties due to different regions???

Here are some numbers I found online

Per 100g (all unsweetened) carbs fiber effective carbs
Cherries, sweet, raw 16.01g 2.10g 13.91g
Blackberries, frozen 15.67g 5.00g 10.67g
Blueberries, frozen 12.17g 2.70g 9.47g
Elderberries, raw 18.40g 7.00g 11.40g
Raspberries, raw 11.94g 6.50g 5.44g
Strawberries, frozen 9.13g 2.10g 7.03g

And while you are correct about portion sizes, if I could portion my sizes, I wouldn't have needed protein power in the first place

I stick with things that don't trigger hunger and binging. Melons also vary in their carb content WILDLY depending on when they are picked/the grower, etc. If, after you eat anything, you are ravenous about 20 minutes later, you may want to stay away. I have had this reaction to melons, peaches, bananas, nectarines and grapes. The grapes thing really pisses me off because I GROW THEM! They taste so good, but until I am at goal, I am going to have to avoid them. Having protein with the fruit seems to help, but I honestly can't remember ever eating just half a banana...I may start out with that intention...but it never ends up at half

I am with you 100% on the cheese. Stay away from the fake icky cheeses.

I understand that the difference in carb count isn't that significant at 1 or 2 TBL between cream and milk, but when one uses the quantities of cream I use, the difference becomes significant.

I guess I *could* drink 1 C of milk instead of 1/2 C of cream thinned with 1/2 C of water...when I make a creamy-based drink or even soup, but then I would get 11g-13g of carbs, depending on the milk, instead of 3 or 4g--which to me is significant. And with milk, those carbs with come with not enough fat to overwhelm the cravings that would ensue.

Those extra calories from fat haven't negatively affected my weight loss, in fact it seemed to help it along. And no cravings when I hit the cream hard.

But then again, I'm doing Atkins and not PP these days, so maybe I shouldn't comment...

NONSENSE !! This is an ALL inclusive board for people eating low-carb. And there is NO restriction as which forum you can post in. Your comments are always well thought out and on point - and I read a lot of your posts.

With the liberal plan, you can get your carbs wherever you want them, as long as you keep them under the minimum number per day and eat enough protein.

If you feel deprived without one piece of fruit per day, you can plan that into your carb count.

Upon thinking further, I realize I probably should have said that when I need 8 oz of "milk," I could use 1/2 C milk and 1/2 C water rather than 1/2 C cream and 1/2 C water, then the carb
count wouldn't be so different, 5-6 versus 3-4. Which would be like Gaelen is saying to use the same volume of the products.

But then the thickness would not be right. Mixing cream with water gives me just about the texture of whole milk. So I guess that's why I do it that way. For 1/2 C of cream plus 1/2 C water (3ish grams of carbs) I get virtually the same texture as a cup of whole milk (11ish grams carbs), and since I don't count calories (except to make sure I get ENOUGH!) I don't worry about that. Just thought I would clarify a little bit.

I prefer the thickness of heavy cream. It only takes 1/2 Tbsp in a mug of coffee to whiten & thicken it, whereas I need 1T of half & half. I'd rather drink hot water than coffee watered down with skim milk!

The other thing milk has is more casein, a protein that causes my sinuses to get stuffed up and my cravings to surge. Extra casein is added to low-fat stuff as "milk solids". So I always choose cream and full fat cheeses.

when i'm at home i can measure out 1Tbs of H&H for my coffee but when i buy my coffee(which is mostly what happens) i tend to put way more, i think more than 2-3 tbs, leave alone the times when they do it themselves (like in dunkin donuts).They put way more than even 2-3 TBS because, they just pour it in the cup as it it were regular or even skim milk. i noticed that even when i say a little of H&H they still put a LOT!!!
Now i'm thinking, is it better to use reg milk instead of H&H when i'm not sure how much i will end up having in my cup???

My understanding is that cream or half and half is still lower in carbs (though much higher in fat and calories) than milk. Skim, lowfat, and whole milk all contain about 12g of carbs (lactose in particular) per cup. Cream is mostly milk FAT, and the "skim" part of the milk contains the protein and lactose.

According to FitDay, all milks (whole, skim, 1% and 2%) have 11.66g of carbs per cup. Half and half has 10.41g of carbs per cup, and heavy cream has only 6.64g of carbs per cup.

A "liberal" pour of milk into a coffee cup is probably 1/8-1/4 of a cup of milk (ie 1-2 oz or 2-4 tablespoons.)

It's up to you if you want to use the heavy cream or milk when somebody else is pouring for you- just be sure to count those 3g or so of carbs in that cup of coffee if you use milk (vs 1.5g if you use cream.)

When someone else is 'pouring,' as in at a Dunkin' Donuts, you can bet they're not pouring heavy cream. So I'd go with the half and half.

OTOH, at a Starbucks or other fancy coffee place, you can request that they use light or heavy cream and make your drink a breve. It's worth it, as I noted before, if you're consuming a lot of volume of dairy product.

I'm with Deirdra that I can get more mileage out of a much smaller quantity of heavy cream in my coffee than out of a milk or lower fat cream alternative. The issue is when you would still use 1 fl. oz (2 tablespoons) whether it is heavy cream or half and half...then, in my book, cost starts to come into play.

As for the berries...raw versus frozen WILL have different ECCs for the same portion size, and you do need to carefully ensure that the berries or other fruit isn't sweetened if it's frozen (read the labels.) But when it comes to skim milk, a cup of skim milk poured out of the carton is the same exact number of carbs as whole milk, unless it's been 'fortified' in some way. OTOH, if it's 'fat free' rather than skim (like that crime against nature, fat free half and half) it may contain milk or corn syrup solids which up the carb count considerably--and dry milk has more carbs, unreconstituted, than an equal portion of regular milk.

Hope this helps.

Aha! This may be the issue. I knew I read the label carefully on the carton of skim before I swore I would never touch it again. The carb count freaked me out! It may very well have been a fortified brand. It was one I didn't normally buy, but it was a BOGO special.

Just to remark that one time I tried a diet that was primarily low-fat count-the-calories. God, my stomach was gnawing with hunger continually. I thought I'd die. It's SO true that fat makes one feel full and enhances flavor. Butter rules!