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  #1   ^
Old Sat, Nov-14-09, 08:13
AimeeJoi's Avatar
AimeeJoi AimeeJoi is offline
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Posts: 552
 
Plan: mindful eating
Stats: 184.5/178.5/140 Female 66
BF:41/40/25
Progress: 13%
Location: pa
Default How many of you are carnivores and why?

I am interested in why there are seemingly so many carnivores in the paleo forums and why it seems that most paleo diet followers feel that it is the ultimate way to follow the paleo diet. It seems a lot of people feel that if they are eating all meat then they are the ultimate paleo human.

Everyone always uses the inuits, masaai and plains indians as examples of why it is perfectly healthy to eat all meat but there are also many hunter gatherers that are equally healthy that eat plenty of fruit and nuts and have a diet high in carbs. All meat is obviously healthy but is it really the best way to eat? Also it doesnt seem that the hg groups that eat higher carb are fatter, in fact in some of the pictures of traditional inuits i've seen they seem kinda chunky.

It seems like maybe a lot of people do a mixture of atkins plus paleo, is this where this thinking comes from?

I have strayed from paleo recently because i was feeling overloaded with meat and nuts (and dairy ) and i added stupid stuff like rice. Now i'm ready to get serious again but i really do feel so much lighter and more energetic when i'm eating carbs. Is this bad? Has anyone lost any weight just by eliminating all non-paleo foods and not restricting carbs?
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  #2   ^
Old Sat, Nov-14-09, 08:38
Tarlach's Avatar
Tarlach Tarlach is offline
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Posts: 445
 
Plan: ZC Warrior | +40K Paleo
Stats: 200/180/180 Male 180cm
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Perth, Australia
Default

I have eaten paleo for four years. Over time I just gravitated towards more meat. I'm not 100% carnivorous, but pretty close. I mostly only eat fruit or veg when we have guests.

I find that fruit and veg just make me hungry. I feel much better on more meat and whenever I eat more carbs I feel worse.

Quite a lot of the tribes in the Ethnographic Atlas are carnivorous and most others eat predominately meat.

Here's a couple (with proportion of economic activity spent hunting or fishing).

Copper Eskimo (92 - 100%)
Comanche (86 - 100%)
Manus (86 - 100%)
Yahgan (82 - 100%)
Slave (82 - 100%)
Micmac (82 - 100%)
Yukaghir (82 - 100%)
Kaska (82 - 100%)
Ingalik (82 - 100%)
Twana (82 - 100%)
Aleut (82 - 100%)
Gros Ventre (76 - 90%)
Badjau (76 - 90%)
Tehuelche (72 - 90%)
Montagnais (72 - 90%)
Bellacoola (72 - 90%)
Haida (72 - 90%)
Eyak (72 - 90%)
Gilyak (72 - 90%)
Saulteaux (72 - 90%)
Mbuti (66 - 80%)
Abipon (62 - 80%)
Klamath (62 - 80%)
Lengua (62 - 80%)

* Does not take into account for time spent in the collection of small land fauna (insects, invertebrates, small mammals, amphibians, and reptiles), so numbers are conservative.

That's how long they spend getting meat. There are probably plenty of tribes that are very good at hunting and spend a lot of time doing other things (hence a lower %). These tribes all show how important hunting meat is, by how much time they dedicate to doing it.

It's also looking quite likely that lower/middle paleolithic man was carnivorous also.

Living on all meat is quite a natural thing for man to do. It only seems weird after our years of brainwashing about what is 'good for us'.

However I did lose weight when I first started paleo and I was eating a lot of carbs then. I'm not going to tell anyone that they shouldn't eat any carbs, but they aren't required for optimal health and it is easier to lose weight on low-carb.

Last edited by Tarlach : Sat, Nov-14-09 at 08:55.
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  #3   ^
Old Sat, Nov-14-09, 08:49
Kristine's Avatar
Kristine Kristine is offline
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Posts: 25,581
 
Plan: Primal/P:E
Stats: 171/146/150 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 119%
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Default

I've been VLC/carnivore for about a month. Why? Mainly because I've been LC for many years now. I've tried different plans. I believe in having an arsenal of plans and strategies, not just hugging one person's philosophy. (ETA: I DO believe that newbies are best off picking one plan and sticking to it for a long time before shuffling it up.) My diet changes with the seasons and with financial ups and downs.

Through all of those experiments, I've felt the best at or near ketosis. Most recently, I think I can credit ditching gluten as a major factor, but higher-carb paleo does me no favours. With VLC, I absolutely LOVE the food that I do eat, and at the same time I achieve that blissful disinterest in food - resisting temptation doesn't exist because the temptation doesn't exist. My threshold for waking up the addiction monster is pretty low.

I don't give a rat's behind about what Kitavans or Inuit ate. They didn't trash their gut with high-fructose corn syrup and gluten like I did for the first 25 years of my life, so all bets are off. For the same reason, I don't trust an unsupplemented meat and water diet to have sufficient nutrients for people like me with dubious absorption. It's all a big experiment. That's fine, but I won't be arguing that it's superior.

Another reason I decided to go almost ZC is that I appear to have the early signs of arthritis. I'm concerned about the possible connection between the nightshade veggies and inflammation. Well, jeez, those are my favorites. So I've been sticking with "condiment" veggies: onions and celery for cooking, whatever trace veggies are in my curry paste, etc. (Yes, I know there are peppers in it...)

An additional reason: I have no food scale anymore. VLC makes it easy to eat good meals, eat according to appetite, and not worry about the numbers.

Last edited by Kristine : Sat, Nov-14-09 at 09:47.
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  #4   ^
Old Sat, Nov-14-09, 12:49
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
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Location: San Diego, CA
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I'm not a carnivore. Although I do eat mostly meat at times.
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  #5   ^
Old Sat, Nov-14-09, 13:22
tiredangel tiredangel is offline
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Posts: 1,110
 
Plan: Carnivore
Stats: 235/175/150 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 71%
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I'm a carnivore, though a bit failed since I have kept dairy in (it's animal, so doesn't disqualify me, though not paleo). Carnivore is the easiest way to eat -- just cook some meat, or eat it raw. No fussing (though I do still cook for my family).

I think fiber is bad for our digestive system. It certainly doesn't add anything. As far as nutrients -- there aren't many in non-meat things, while meat is exceedingly nutritious. Antioxidents? Perhaps not needed if you're not eating those same foods that also have oxidents.

It definitely is not for everyone. I do know if I eat any non-animal product I get bloated, and it's painful. It's not a matter of not being used to eating non-meat stuff because I haven't been carnivore that long.
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  #6   ^
Old Sat, Nov-14-09, 13:43
Seejay's Avatar
Seejay Seejay is offline
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Posts: 3,025
 
Plan: Optimal Diet
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 62 inches
BF:
Progress: 8%
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Quote:
Has anyone lost any weight just by eliminating all non-paleo foods and not restricting carbs?
Oh my gosh, check out the success stories at Mark's Daily Apple.

While there is "restriction" in carb amounts, they eat fruit and veg with the protein and good fats, as much as 100 g per day or more depending on activity. That place attracts people who like salads and veggies. There's one lady who went from over 250 to 120 or something in two and a half years doing exactly what you asked. (search for Lisa I think her name was)
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  #7   ^
Old Sat, Nov-14-09, 15:38
Digger95 Digger95 is offline
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Posts: 126
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 280/249/165 Male 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 27%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AimeeJoi
Has anyone lost any weight just by eliminating all non-paleo foods and not restricting carbs?

I don't restrict fruit and veggies and I'm losing about 4.5 pounds a month pretty effortlessly. Using Cordain's food list as my guide I eat a pound or two of veggies a day, an orange every morning with breakfast, at least one apple a day sometimes more, a banana here and there, strawberries when they're cheap, and a favorite dessert of mine is unsweetened applesauce with blueberries and ground flax seed. When I gave up dairy and grains (and by extension all of the processed foods that contain them) I found myself craving fruit and veggies like nobody's business and I just went with it.
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  #8   ^
Old Sat, Nov-14-09, 15:47
dshack dshack is offline
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Plan: Paleoish VLC
Stats: 130/130/130 Male 63 inches
BF:
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I'm a carnivore, though I have two unresolved questions that bug me:

1) Is there a good study supporting the "fiber is bad" hypothesis? I don't like veggies, so I want to believe it, but finding evidence from non-wacky-sounding sites is tough.

2) Where do you guys get antioxidants? Aren't veggies a good source of them?

Besides those concerns, I just take a multivitamin and assume I'm chill.
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  #9   ^
Old Sat, Nov-14-09, 16:05
Seejay's Avatar
Seejay Seejay is offline
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Posts: 3,025
 
Plan: Optimal Diet
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 62 inches
BF:
Progress: 8%
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I don't need antioxidants because I don't eat do much that causes oxidative damage in the first place. (eat plant sugars)

Peter at Hyperlipid has a post on why fruits and vegetables look good in epidemiological studies, but in more careful intervention studies, look worse - MORE oxidative damage to us.

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot....%20%28almost%29
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  #10   ^
Old Sat, Nov-14-09, 16:15
fishercat's Avatar
fishercat fishercat is offline
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Posts: 345
 
Plan: CR Marine Paleoish
Stats: 130/100/105 Female 5 Ft 2.5 In
BF:
Progress: 120%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AimeeJoi
Has anyone lost any weight just by eliminating all non-paleo foods and not restricting carbs?


Yes. I guess I didn't have a massive amount to lose though, so maybe that was a factor. I lost about 30 lbs and have kept it off for several years now. I eat fairly high carb, around 75-100 grams a day.

I don't think fiber is bad, but many of us have damaged guts and it's like sandpapering them.

As far as antioxidants, evidence to prescribe their use is pretty sketchy. I've seen some good studies but can't seem to find them ATM. This has some discussion http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.c...pidemic_19.html

"

"Antioxidants" work great in a test tube but they don't contribute meaningfully to the body's antioxidant capacity. Our primary blood antioxidants, for example, are uric acid, vitamin C and vitamin E. Nothing magical there. Polyphenols from green tea, chocolate, vegetables, fruit etc. make almost no contribution to blood antioxidant status."

Oh wait, I found it
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot....es-re-post.html
Quote:
Never mind the green tea bit, that turned out to be irrelevant. It's what happened when almost all fruit and vegetables were removed from the diet of the volunteers for 10 weeks that's interesting. The result being:

"The overall effect of the 10-week period without dietary fruits and vegetables was a decrease in oxidative damage to DNA, blood proteins, and plasma lipids, concomitantly with marked changes in antioxidative defence."

This later study was NOT a low carb study. Potatoes, bread and cake were all included in the sample menus provided in the full text. Please note the DECREASE in oxidative damage to your genes, your protein structure and your lipids. Great stuff fruit, when you put it in the bin.

The conclusion seems to be that there is something nasty in fruit and vegetables, something pro-oxidant. You just have to ask yourself why a plant should manufacture an antioxidant in the first place. You can bet your bottom dollar that it was not for the benefit of herbivores! No, plants hate herbivores and negotiate with substances like strychnine rather than antioxidants.
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  #11   ^
Old Sat, Nov-14-09, 17:28
OregonRose's Avatar
OregonRose OregonRose is offline
Wag more, bark less.
Posts: 692
 
Plan: Meat.
Stats: 216/149/145 Female 65.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 94%
Location: Eugene
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One of the most compelling reasons for me is that no matter how much some paleolithic hunter-gatherer woman might have pined for mountains of berries or tubers, there were likely few opportunities for her to indulge her cravings, especially if it was the wrong season. With me on the other hand, if a little bit of plant sugar stimulates a craving, I either fight a battle with my own brain to the point of being unable to concentrate on anything else, or, more likely, trot down to the 7-11 and stuff my face with Twinkies.

Eating only meat, I get no cravings, and therefore need no willpower. It's a huge relief.

Also, the longer I eat like this, the better my overall health gets. Nuts and greens may be paleo-approved, but nevertheless, my body does better without them.
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  #12   ^
Old Sat, Nov-14-09, 18:26
Mirrorball's Avatar
Mirrorball Mirrorball is offline
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Posts: 753
 
Plan: Intuitive eating
Stats: 200/125/- Female 1.62m (5'4")
BF:
Progress: 97%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AimeeJoi
Has anyone lost any weight just by eliminating all non-paleo foods and not restricting carbs?

Yes. I don't know how many carbs I eat, but I eat plenty of vegetables and two or three portions of fruit daily. I've been losing about two pounds a week for at least one and a half months. I haven't given up on dairy yet, but I don't eat grains or sugar except for the occasional piece of 85% dark chocolate. Eating vegetables and fruits doesn't make me crave junk food.
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  #13   ^
Old Sat, Nov-14-09, 21:38
Tarlach's Avatar
Tarlach Tarlach is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 445
 
Plan: ZC Warrior | +40K Paleo
Stats: 200/180/180 Male 180cm
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Perth, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshack
1) Is there a good study supporting the "fiber is bad" hypothesis? I don't like veggies, so I want to believe it, but finding evidence from non-wacky-sounding sites is tough.

Here's some info on fiber:
http://www.carnivorehealth.com/main...-you-fiber.html

* a semi-wacky-sounding site

Also, I don't see any reason to take a multivitamin as they probably do you more harm than good.
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  #14   ^
Old Sun, Nov-15-09, 08:55
HappyLC HappyLC is offline
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Posts: 1,876
 
Plan: Generic low carb
Stats: 212/167/135 Female 66.75
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: Long Island, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seejay
Oh my gosh, check out the success stories at Mark's Daily Apple....There's one lady who went from over 250 to 120 or something in two and a half years doing exactly what you asked. (search for Lisa I think her name was)


Wow, Seejay! Her name is Diana and I just read her story HERE. What an amazing transformation!
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  #15   ^
Old Sun, Nov-15-09, 11:11
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyLC
Wow, Seejay! Her name is Diana and I just read her story HERE. What an amazing transformation!

It doesn't sound like she's a carnivore, she just went paleo.
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