It is not my intention to be critical of this program or to troll, but something occurred to me that I thought I would share with BFL / potential BFL'ers with the aim of getting some feedback.

I had a recommendation to BFL, so last night I went down to the libraray, borrowed the book and read it.

The program itself looked interesting. But as I read through the book, I was equally interested in the way it was marketed, or 'sold'. Lots of customer testimonies, before / after photographs, motivational pep talks etc.

Not that this concerned me. I glossed over these parts fairly quickly and focused on the program.

What did jump out at me was that for all but those who want to prepare food portions all day, BFL is a program where half the meals are pre-packaged meals, most likely the author's. You see, the program requires 6 meals a day. This is a pain. But it can be eased by taking 3 of these are pre-packaged mini-meals.

I just looked up the cost of these. A 42 serving pack of the recommended mini-meal (Myoplex) retails for $100. That's $2.30 per meal. At 3 meals a day for the 12 week program, that works out to $580 from each customer.Not a bad take compared to many other diets that just get a $20 paperback from each customer.

Equally interesting is the "Challenge" the author offered. Show the best results and win his Lamborghini. The book says he had 45,000 entries. $580 per entry. That's 26 million bucks. I think at this point, the cost of the Lamborghini is incidental.

This supplements business looks like a real money spinner.

The question to me is: Does it work any better than any other low-fat program where you work out hard six times a week?

Why is a low-fat program, as BFL is (Those mini-meals are 23g each), in this low-carb forum anyway?

No flames please. This is just a different slant on what, to be fair, is touted as a 'miracle diet'.

I'll try to give you an honest answer, though others here will probably do a much better job.

1. Yes, the book does try to sell you, doesn't everything? Free enterprise and all that.

2. You don't have to use the prepared meals/shakes. This book was written with an audience in mind, one with a very active life style that doesn't include a lot of cooking. (Hence fast food success and waistline increase.) It's been known for years that small frequent feedings are better for you than 3 big meals a day. You actually eat less and you cut down on insulin spikes which help control weight. I do sometimes make a low-carb shake as I'm rushing off to work, running late and don't have time to cook. It's my choice and my money. But ultimately, it's what works for you. Supplements aren't mandatory but I find vitamins and such help me feel better.

3. I don't remember seeing a fee for entering the challenge. Must have missed that. Does't matter. I'm doing this for me, not to win money so it's a moot point. Maybe someone else can answer.

4. Does it work better? I guess that's up to each individual to answer for themselves. For me the answer is yes. I've stuck to the workout program better than anything I've ever tried. Can't answer to low-fat part. I'm eating all the fat I want.

5. Many of us are using the exercise part of BFL but still doing low carb diets. Some have found they needed to increase their carbs as they've progressed and that's ok. Some are doing the BFL diet. Doesn't matter. We're all here to support and help each other and that's what we're doing. I mostly just lurk here but I have found lot's of useful information and encouragement. People are nice and only want you to succeed and don't judge you by your diet.

I understand your skepticism. For me, I really wanted to make some changes in my life and one of them was to get healthier. I look at those pictures and see myself looking that good and that healthy. I faithfully record my workouts and how I'm feeling. I choose to think of Bill as my mentor, encouraging me on, showing me I can be a stronger person both physically and mentally. Actually, I've progressed to where I'm becoming my own mentor and coach.

It's up to you. If you want to take the challenge and see how it works for you, come on along. Everyone here will help you, answer questions, encourage you. Since you were able to check out the book, it won't even cost you the price of the book. What have you got to loose? Except excess fat? But be warned . . . you may find that you've gained much more than muscle at the end of the 12 weeks. It's your choice.

Hi Tornado,

Good questions, I had the same questions when I started. Great answers from FLRN. Maybe there are a couple things I could add to.

When I first bought the book and saw all the testimonials my first reaction was the same. After having read many interviews Bill Phillips has done I really think that his intentions are good. It is his belief (if I may put words in his mouth) that most people who fail at BFL do so not because they can't do it, but because they loose the motivation to do it. That's why so much of the book is motivational in nature.

It is true that he does sell Myoplex in the book, but if I remember right it is only done on one page in the entire book. Hardly the hard sell that others do. I use Myoplex, but not three times a day, many days I don't use myoplex at all, and there are many other brands of MRP's to choose from. There is really no need to use a MRP if you can plan a day ahead and prepare your meals. The six meals a day is not something unique to BFL, it is a pretty well accepted fact that it helps to keep your metabolism higher throughout the day and keep insulin levels steady.

One more thing about the supplement business, I don't think Bill owns it any more. I think he sold it and the magazine some time ago. Also all the profit from the BFL book goes to the "Make a Wish Foundation".

I can't really answer if BFL is better than any other program, but I've seen it work for many people here. If you are interested in doing a low-carb version of BFL this is the place to find support for it. There are many other BFL support boards, but not many that would be as accepting of someone changing the nutrition part to a low-carb diet. I did BFL and Atkin's for two challenges and am now trying BFL by the book.

I wouldn't hesitate to recommend BFL to anyone looking for a comprehensive intense program of weight training, cardio, and nutrition that will not take any more time out of your day than absolutely necessary. After all a challenge is only 3 months and then you know for yourself if this works for you. Thanks for your questions. I'm sure many people have the same questions when they first look at BFL.

Arnie

I think the BFL program is great. I love the training and I have never trained that hard in my life before and at the same time this training fits perfect to me - no aches like with other programs before. I will start week 6 on Monday and I already started to think about my next cycle in summer.

But you are right. If you follow the comments Bill P. and of BLF challenge winners and read about their eating habits be prepared to spend a lot of money, since EAS products are very expensive. Most of the them take BLF products like meal replacements/protein/betagen 2-3 times a day. This could add a few hunded bucks a month. But as FLRN already said, there is no need to use EAS products. That does not mean that it doesn't work, but ther are cheaper brands and for example my meal replacement is LC (cream cheese, Whey protein, Flaxseed oil, L-Glutamine, sweetener, Water). This is much cheaper and probably more healthy.

Some supplements like protein, multivitamin/mineral or something like that might help for you diet and you will find that most of us use a little bit of it for convenience, for to help the body or for to feel better. I take different brands which known for good qualitiy and good prices as well.

This group here seems to be a little bit different concerning the eating part since the group is more relaxed which diet to follow. We train by the book, but not all eat by the book. I for example eat very LC during the week (below 20gr carbs) but have carbloading day every Sunday. Other eat more carbs or even BFL style.

If I remember right, if you enter the challenge officially you need to by a starter pack with EAS products. Maybe this is a kind of entrance fee?

Thanks for the quick responses.

To FLRN,

Fair enough on free enterprise. He's entitled to sell. I just found it a bit over the top for my taste.

I didn't consider the active lifestyle audience. In that case, yes, it makes sense for convenience. I guess the upside is that at least the shakes ARE an option.

I didn't mean there was a fee for entering the challenge. My point was that lots of serious participants are likely to be consuming lots of Myoplex. It's a revenue generation challenge - marketing. Just an observation.

Glad to see it worked for you.

To Arnie_g,

I can see that the program is tough enough that he does have to get people to ask themselves tough questions at the start. E.g. How badly do you really want this? Because you have to want it badly to be in pain every day for 12 weeks. Quite a change of lifestyle and shock to the system for all us fat buggers! I would say that BFL is probably easier for someone who has been disciplining themselves in both a diet and exercise for a while rather than someone going from being a slob (Yes that is a bit unfair but just an example) to a mean BFL machine overnight.

I have read a number of your posts and on one I thought you said you were sometimes taking Myoplex 6 times a day? I think this is in the same post where someone was pointing out that it contained hydrogenated fats and you said you could live with it.

To superflat,

Thanks for the feedback. It did not occur to me that this forum was for an LC version of BFL.

My goal is to get to 15-18% BF and not to bulk up too much, i.e. to reduce my overall weight. I used to be 83kg in the good old days when I was really fit and weight training as well. I am 95kg now so I don't really want to get heavier, just leaner. I am told CKD may be better than BFL for cutting rather than building mass and leanness. What do you think or will the LC version of BFL do that?

Hi, Tornado,

I agree with you on the marketing aspect. I didn't like it either, but the basic program is good. I have never tried Myoplex - heard it tastes and feels like cake mix - BAD cake mix. I do, however use about a protein shake (low carb) a day of one variety or another. And the money comes not just from Myoplex. If you register with them in any way, you get adverts for their line of supplements for about 20-30 bucks a bottle.

I think that if you have any room to put mass on at all - and from what I read of you, you do - that you will put on some mass. IMHO, this is a good thing. Makes you look better faster and the scale be damned. However, if you don't want any, do CKD instead. The 1 to 1 carb-protein ration is a mass building formula. The diet, IMHO, is low fat not for any supposed health benefits of low fat but but because limiting fat leaves more room for the mass building combo if carbs plus protein.

I got used to the six meals very quickly. There have also been studies done which show that when an identical diet is consumed in 6, 3 and 1 meal per day, the six meals people lose more. Their metabolisms stay higher through out the day.

Anyhow, I'm pretty sure the formula will be:

Most mass gain - Standard BFL
Medium mass gain - LC BFL
least mass gain - CKD

I couldn't really make a call right now and which would provide the most fat loss. *shrugs* Too many variables.

Let us know which you pick!

Cheers,

Friday

I have to admit I'm one of the few who actually likes the taste of myoplex, but I'd never do it for all 6 meals in a day. There was a few weeks when I was eating it for 3 meals a day. Now I'm back down to one or two meals a day. Somedays when I'm not too lazy I don't use Myoplex at all.

Arnie

Hi Tornado,

I'm doing BFL by the book. Although Bill does say that he uses Myoplex and many people he coaches use it also he does say on page 91 "Now, I'm not saying you can't get good results with just regular food. That is possible, especially if you have time to shop for and prepare six quality whole-food meals a day..."

Personally I don't have time so use 3 Myoplex shakes a day, and I don't think I could actually EAT 6 meals but I don't mind drinking 3 of them.

Initially I thought it was expensive but I now actually spend less on my grocery shopping as I am not spending on pre-processed meals, snacks, sweets etc etc. so it actually works out about the same as my previous shopping bill. I also looked at it from the point of a shake being about the same cost as a sandwhich anyway, so they are not that expensive.

When I initially read the book I didn't feel that Bill was pushing the product at all.

I just find them really handy, especially at work, and actually like the taste.

Mike

mikeqtoo,

As I said to fridayeyes in my journal, I am about to investigate the best value mini-meal supplement here in Australia.

I don't mind buying them. I too am busy and happy to throw something in a blender if it is quicker than a normal meal if it helps to get to my goal.

But I wouldn't do it if it worked out to AUD$10 per mini-meal. That makes eating expensive. Believe me, specialty items - even normal stuff - can be pretty expensive here in OZ (Eggs are $3 per dozen, milk is $3.40 for two litres, Gas is $4.50 per gallon and a GMC Suburban is $80K - but drugs are about half the cost than in the US)

I can tolerate bad tasting stuff. Hey, if I can down raw linseeds with water I can handle anything!

Hi Tornado,
it seems there is a misunderstanding about the program and intensity/pain.

For me the training isn't painful in no sense, but it pushes me to reach MY limits, which gives me a kick every time I reach it.

Yes, the program is very, very intense, but I only felt pain in the first week, because my muscles were very sore. But this is gone nowadays. Of course I still feel my muscles for a few days, but this feeling is not unpleasant. Often my muscles feel very weak after the workout and sometimes they are shivering slightly, but this feeling isn't unpleasant either since this tells me that I trained right.
In the last week I even felt a big change, because suddenly I feel much stronger during the training and during the day as well. In general I feel physically and mentally stronger, because I am very proud that up today I missed only one work out, my eating habits got better, and my time schedule changed to the positive since I wake up earlier and try to get enough sleep. I am a very undisciplined guy, but the effects of the program are so positive that even I feel bad or feel tired I can convince my self to go the gym.

Concerning the diet:
I don't have a real answer if LC is better than BFL diet. But some thoughts and my experience:
Low Carb is proven to work much better for cutting fat than Low Fat. There are some complex physical explanations for this, but the easiest answer is, that first: you feel less hungry with LC, therefore you eat less calories;
second: poeple with eating disorders learn better eating habits and consume less calories (if they stay away from industrial LC products).

For me Atkins worked wonderful, even without any sports, but I stopped losing fat recently and that was when I decided to add sports. Additional I am an ektomorph type (tall, skinny until a few years ago, long legs and arms, not many muscles) and I lost muscles visibly while doing Atkins.

In the first weeks of BFL I kept on with Atkins Induction, but being in Ketosis for a long time plus BFL was impossible to do for me (you will find this in my previous posts), since I felt more weak every week. Therefore I introduced a carbloading day with a calorie plus (currently there is a cheese cake waiting for me ) . I am not sure if that is the reason that I felt much stronger this week, or if it is a result of my training. Maybe both. In the last weeks I did not lose much fat and gained some muscles, but my body seems to change. As soon I will have reach 12% fat I will increase my carbs in order to built more muscles.

But carbloading should only be done after a few weeks Atkins induction and if you train hard and continuously. May Germany bodybuilders do cycle carbs in order to lose fat, without losing muscles or even to built lean muscles.
Others eat more carbs in order to keep the energy, but still keep on with their low carb lifestyle.

IMHO you have two options:
a.) very easy: follow the BFL eating and training plan
b.) needs some more knowledge: Doing Atkins or other LC diets and BFL training. For this I would recommend to read the book on Atkins Diet and read the Atkins subforum to learn more about it.

I started with Atkins with the idea to follow it for max. three months and than to return to my previous lifestyle. Now I am finishing the fourth month and learned so much about the ususal industrial food in supermarkets (bad sugars, bad unhealthy fat, glutamat, eg.), I hope that I never will return to my former extremely high carb lifestyle. But I also will stay away from so called "LC products" since IMHO this is the same industrial junk, only with a new label and of course much more expensive. (By the way, Atkins earned over 200 million dollar with it last year).

Superflat, you may not have noticed but I AM on Atkins. I started in December, exercising along the way, and lost weight consistently through March. I then hit a 6 week stall that I could not break through no matter what I tried.

So I am very familiar with Atkins and I follow it pretty much to the letter. My only failing may have been that I was taking in too many calories. Now I am monitoring everything with Fitday. The last month has been a bit of up and down since I started with a massive high carb low fat refeed in one attempt to kick the stall. That failed. Net result zero change. Next I just decided to give my tired old body a two week break from any dieting or exercise over Easter. That resulted in a 6 pound gain but I am not concerned. Now I am back on Induction in an attempt to bring myself back to 209lb - my stall weight.

I am 6'1" and 26% body fat. I really want to lean down but I am weary of the energy lags. These I am quite familiar with as that is one aspect of Atkins that has plagued me. Your comment of how you were on Atkins when you started the BFL program is interesting. I might go that way also then change the diet to introduce more carbs as the weeks go on since I can see that the body will be starving for them.

Read BFL a second time today. Makes you want to do it.

I'm doing the program as it makes a lot of sense to me. I'm the kind of person who needs a structured exercise program, and this book was way cheaper than a trainer!

Personally, I did not enter the challenge, I just want to get into great shape and be healthy.

I also do not eat the lowfat method described in the book. I eat around 60 to 80 gm of carbs (carbs minus fiber) from mostly low glycemic veggies and fruits (primarily blueberries! love those things), around 170 to 180 gm of total protein, lots from dairy sources ( I choose low fat as to keep my calorie counts in check) and the rest is fat. Varies from 32 to 40 some percent as fat,as I attempt to maintain a calorie deficit of around 900 or so.

And yep, it takes a whole heckuvua lot of micromanagement, but it's what my lazy tail needs to keep going (that and all the goal making!)

This is my fifth week into it, and for me, only the first week was painful, after that, been feeling great! Jump on board!

Sorry, if have realized it too late that you are doing Atkins already.

I hit the stall as well and that was when I decided to start BFL. I have not lost much weight since I started, actually in the first week I gainded 1 lbs, since I was hungry all the time. But I hope that my bodyfat will be replaced by muscles on the long run.

Keep us posted which kind of diet you do with BFL. This seems to be a experimental zone and I am very interested in hearing others reports.

Tornado -

I had some of the same first impressions when I read BFL too. But I had a friend that is doing the program and watched his workout routine and eating habits for a time before jumping into the program myself....

I do purchase some of the EAS products, mostly meal supplement bars for when I'm on the run. I have purchased some protein powder as well to add to some foods when I need a protein boost. But overall I'd say this is one of the cheapest and easiest weight loss/workout programs I've ever tried (and I've tried a lot of them...)

I too thougt that I'd be spending more money on food when I saw that I'd have to eat 6X a day. But what I've found is that I'm actually spending less because I'm preparing meals at home and brining them into work for my meals. I usually set aside one evening after work to cook for the week. Usually some chicken, steak/meat and perhaps a crock-pot meal. Taking the time to plan my meals before has really helped.

I was a VERY lazy person before starting BFL. I was surprised how I was able to jump into the workout routine. The key is start at your workout level and then build up your weights and aerobic activity as your body becomes stronger.

BFL is about the committment to yourself - by following the recommended exercises and eating patterns. It works great for me... maybe not as well for others. (I guess that's why there are so many diet and exercise programs out there !)

Kiks

Interesting post. When I first found BFL about 2 years ago, I had similar thoughts. I believed this diet was a money making scheme. What I have learned though is how to eat properly. Atkins, while it works for others, has not worked well for myself recently. BLF WORKS. Also, I thinks the shakes/bars are relatively inexpensive in comparison to take out meals. Where can I get a meal for less than $2? Not sure where you came up with those figures, but I get my bars for about $1.25/ea and shakes for about $1.70/ea. Can't go to Wendy's or McDonalds for that!!! I have managed to lose 12 lbs in the last 6 weeks and it's staying off. I'm not on the yo-yo up 3 lbs, down 3 lbs diet which can be very frustrating after 6 months.

I think this program is fantastic and not all that hard to do. I wish you the best success if any program that you choose!