Margot,

I have been lurking at the zeroing in health for the past month. I saw your pics, you too look amazing. You are actually my motivation to start zero carb & I cannot thank you enough. I guess at times there are people that you can relate to that truly are an inspiration and I cannot thank you enough for being my true inspiration

Thank you so much, Daryl.

The question of eating fruits and vegetables is largely academic for me, since I was never able to stick to a lowcarb diet that included them. I would continue ZC, but use supplements if I really thought it was necessary for complete health. I guess the jury's still out on that (for me) but I wouldn't think of stopping ZC.

You're welcome, Happy. Some use supplements, most seem to not do so. I do take magnesium on occasion, and D3.

That's what I'm looking forward to ... not taking supplements. I've been taking a number of things, including magnesium, potassium, D3, krill oil, Omega 3, Iodoral, and a few other things I can't think of at the moment. The krill oil and Omega 3 are for arthritis. I have very little cartilege left in my medial right knee, and will likely need a partial knee replacement next year. I've been putting it off, thinking I can get relief through what I eat (meaning meat, not wheat). It's getting so bad, though, that I don't think even going totally completely ZC will help.

The magnesium, potassium, and D3 will likely stay, but the others probably won't be renewed. But, if I feel as good as all you promise I'll feel, maybe I don't need the magnesium or potassium (for leg cramps) either. D3 is here to stay, though.

I'm not sure how bones come into play here. I was responding to the concern that you need carbs in your diet to prevent meat from leaching calcium from your bones. As to whether extra calcium beyond muscle meat is needed, that's another can of worms imo.

joe

Daryl, I don't think Lex's results are in the upper range; they're fairly close to average. Lex's bone scan results are analyzed here:
http://www.paleonu.com/panu-weblog/...assessment.html

Lex's results are that he has about 93% of the bone density of a 30-year old, and has about 1% more bone density than the average person his age (58). That puts him just over the 50th percentile (can't tell exactly where due to rounding, but it's less than the 52nd percentile). So his bones are in average condition for someone his age.

It's hard to conclude much since he was vegan for 20 years before switching to ZC. Vegans would say their diet is so awesome that even after eating an insane diet for 5 years he was still in good shape. ZCers can be proud that just 5 years of ZC undoes 20 years of veganism. Even worse, without baseline data from when he was younger, it's hard to conclude even that much. Perhaps at age 30 (before his vegan and ZC adventures) his bone density was 150% due to good genes and some accidental good diet choices, and he's been hurting his bones ever since with two substandard diets. Or, his density at age 30 could have been 80%, and two good diets since then have helped him. (I think veganism is not a good thing for bone density, but am trying to be thorough in thinking of causes for his Dexa results

About the only take away I see is that 5 years of ZC probably doesn't do anything catastrophic to your bones.

I haven't followed Lex closely, but knows he does raw food and think he uses grass fed meat. Did he spend most of his ZC time eating that way?

Like Lex, I'm a bit concerned about my bone density. Not from ZC: I had clinically low levels of vitamin D (19) and a bunch of cavities--all from before ZC. However, I'm not sure it's worth the radiation exposure from the x-rays to do the measurement since I'm not sure what I'd do differently.

joe

I see those as two sides of the same coin re: bone health. Do fruit and veg prevent bone loss, and did the Inuit do fine without them because of something in their diet that we might not get with muscle meat alone? (Not looking for an answer from you, personally, just clarifying how those two facets of the discussion are related for me. )

So am I. I'm a 52 year old, small-boned, white woman, whose mother has osteoporosis (terrible "dowager's hump".) I think that about covers all the main risk factors! Hence my interest in this subject. If there's anything I can do to improve my chances of avoiding this disease, I want to know.

Good points, Joe, regarding Lex; I think it was his slight "above average" for his age that was making me think he had a higher rating. Still, the fact that his bones aren't cracking is a good sign

And I do think he's been raw almost all, if not all, of his ZC time. Some will say that makes the difference; I hope they're wrong, because I have zero interest in raw meat.

Ah OK, thanks! I find this very encouraging for some reason.

Ok, So I have a warped sense of humour...

Because is was easy. I never forced myself to drop anything, but the salt. And I had a very good reason for the salt. I always tell people to take their time, it will all happen naturally. Also, take your own path. I never did something cause Charles had success with it. Just because he ate ground beef, did not mean I had to eat ground beef. Too many people think they have to eat exactly like a successful zc'er in order to have their own success. Not true.
I eat much differently today than when I was losing. I went through periods of eating raw meat, now I eat well done. I do what works for me.
And, I am honest. I do not lie to myself. If you are 200 pounds and not losing, something is wrong.
I am a bit heavier than usual right now. Why? I am over eating. That simple.

Any idea why you're overeating?

I think Suzanne has hit the nail on the head. ZC to me is a bit of a maze, I for one, thought others could lead me through. I think now, that others can assist by pointing out their direction but in the end I must find my own way. Salt for instance, I dumped without a backward glance but coffee & double cream, no way!!
I think ZC will be right for me - in the long run ...

had a bowl of ground beef for breakfast, and 2 small plates of turkey with fat & juices for "lupper". And drank a litre of water. Couldn't possibly think of eating again tonight. SO not hungry. Went to the gym and did mostly upper body and abdominal weight training, finishing with a 20 minute walk. I've got the membership, so I might as well use it and try to build some muscle so I don't keep hurting myself. My job consists of lifting a lot of heavy boxes nearly every day as I load and unload my truck. Think I'm going to have a cup of chai and take a nice long bath.