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  #1   ^
Old Mon, Feb-20-17, 08:06
Didy's Avatar
Didy Didy is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,055
 
Plan: Low carb
Stats: 136/118/115 Female 5' 2"
BF:
Progress: 86%
Location: Washington
Default How Much Fat Should You Eat on a Ketogenic Diet?

This chart and article have been a mind blower for me! I kept trying to follow the ketogenic diet because I love how I feel when I'm in the zone, but I would either start to gain or just stall. I've just recently discovered youtube videos by Dr. Phinney and Dr. Volek (read about them on the Kickin' Carb Clutter blog - also so informative!) and I learned why I was having difficulties. I was ingesting too much fat and my body was using that for energy, instead of burning up the stuff I wanted to get rid of! Anyway, maybe this will help some of you as well!

I've gotta tell you, it feels so great to see the scale budge again, very encouraging!

https://www.dietdoctor.com/much-fat-eat-ketogenic-diet
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  #2   ^
Old Mon, Feb-20-17, 09:21
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Posts: 12,347
 
Plan: ketosis/IF
Stats: 190/157.2/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 91%
Location: Ontario
Default

Yes. There's sort of no such thing as a ketogenic diet, just minimally anti-ketogenic diets, it isn't that fat's ketogenic so much as that carbohydrate and to some extent protein are anti-ketogenic.

There is one time I'll force the fat--if I've gone off plan and I'm out of ketosis, appetite sort of gets out of hand for a day or so, I might make some fat-bombish sort of thing just to satisfy the increase in appetite without slowing down the return to ketosis too much, then go back to normal once things have calmed down.
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  #3   ^
Old Mon, Feb-20-17, 09:38
Didy's Avatar
Didy Didy is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,055
 
Plan: Low carb
Stats: 136/118/115 Female 5' 2"
BF:
Progress: 86%
Location: Washington
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
Yes. There's sort of no such thing as a ketogenic diet, just minimally anti-ketogenic diets, it isn't that fat's ketogenic so much as that carbohydrate and to some extent protein are anti-ketogenic.

There is one time I'll force the fat--if I've gone off plan and I'm out of ketosis, appetite sort of gets out of hand for a day or so, I might make some fat-bombish sort of thing just to satisfy the increase in appetite without slowing down the return to ketosis too much, then go back to normal once things have calmed down.


Yes! I've just been so "desperate" to see the dang scale move that I was really confusing myself! Gahh.
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  #4   ^
Old Mon, Feb-20-17, 09:52
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 10,369
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/161/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 84%
Location: USA
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For me, fat's best utility (besides being tastytasty) is making my meals so satisfying I don't have to eat again for hours and hours. My key to Intermittent Fasting.
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  #5   ^
Old Mon, Feb-20-17, 11:38
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 2,156
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
Yes. There's sort of no such thing as a ketogenic diet, just minimally anti-ketogenic diets, it isn't that fat's ketogenic so much as that carbohydrate and to some extent protein are anti-ketogenic.

There is one time I'll force the fat--if I've gone off plan and I'm out of ketosis, appetite sort of gets out of hand for a day or so, I might make some fat-bombish sort of thing just to satisfy the increase in appetite without slowing down the return to ketosis too much, then go back to normal once things have calmed down.

Excellent explanation.
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  #6   ^
Old Sun, May-20-18, 22:57
Star123's Avatar
Star123 Star123 is offline
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Posts: 47
 
Plan: Keto/IF/LCarb
Stats: 208/175/142 Female 5' 5"
BF:
Progress: 50%
Location: Surrey, BC Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
Yes. There's sort of no such thing as a ketogenic diet, just minimally anti-ketogenic diets, it isn't that fat's ketogenic so much as that carbohydrate and to some extent protein are anti-ketogenic.

There is one time I'll force the fat--if I've gone off plan and I'm out of ketosis, appetite sort of gets out of hand for a day or so, I might make some fat-bombish sort of thing just to satisfy the increase in appetite without slowing down the return to ketosis too much, then go back to normal once things have calmed down.


teaser ~ yeah, I have found that when I get hungry after fasting all day long, I will consume some fat with my meal and feel satisfied. If I have gone off plan for a day, I will eat just enough fat to get back OP. But, it usually sets me back 2 weeks, and I gain between 2-4 lbs. Get down on myself, because it takes that amount of time to get back into ketosis and OP. I will continue with low carbing as if nothing happened, with a clear mind-set, with no side effects and continue losing steadily. Thankfully, this doesn't happen as often as it used to in the beginning of starting the ketogenic diet.

This diet has been the only diet that has worked for me. I have learned to eat just enough good fats to feel full. Keeping my carbs down as low as possible and consume moderate protein in my diet, combined with intermittent fasting or IF. Fasting does play a major role in losing weight on these Lcarb diets!

Last edited by Star123 : Sun, May-20-18 at 23:10.
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  #7   ^
Old Mon, May-21-18, 10:23
M Levac M Levac is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,378
 
Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Didy
This chart and article have been a mind blower for me! I kept trying to follow the ketogenic diet because I love how I feel when I'm in the zone, but I would either start to gain or just stall. I've just recently discovered youtube videos by Dr. Phinney and Dr. Volek (read about them on the Kickin' Carb Clutter blog - also so informative!) and I learned why I was having difficulties. I was ingesting too much fat and my body was using that for energy, instead of burning up the stuff I wanted to get rid of! Anyway, maybe this will help some of you as well!

I've gotta tell you, it feels so great to see the scale budge again, very encouraging!

https://www.dietdoctor.com/much-fat-eat-ketogenic-diet

About that chart illustrating Ted Naiman's idea of what should happen. I had the exact same idea a few years ago. However, I was only concerned with the effect on food intake, not with the effect on fat loss. Anyways, I'm aware it's just an idea, so I asked here on this forum for input about it. Here's the thread: http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=456354 I think it's relevant here and it could probably help you figure out your situation.

Recently I posted my updated paradigm on my blog (link in my signature). In there, I explain how eating fat is self-limiting. So, eat fat, at some point can't eat any more fat, so you stop eating fat cuz you're full. We can see this self-limitation as a hard limit. With Ted Naiman's idea, we're talking about a soft limit, somewhere below this hard limit. It's a bit like the difference between "I'm stuffed" and "that was a good meal". However, we're talking about moving the scale. So, the idea is to figure out the soft limit that makes this happen.

On the other hand, personally, I believe dietary fat should have no effect on fat loss because it has near-zero effect on the primary regulator of fat tissue - insulin. If anything, dietary fat should make insulin drop, at least if insulin was too high to begin with. So based on that I suggest you find out what other things you did besides eating a bit less fat. In my paradigm, I explain the primary point of disruption, and how the primary disruptor of everything is dietary carbs. When I'm searching for the cause (in this case, for the cause of a stall, and the cause of a re-start), that's where I start looking, then I go on from there.

Just a few days ago I read some stuff by Volek and Phinney and I realized that they understand my paradigm in their own way. I mean, they understand the experimental data and stuff. I forget exactly what I read but the point is try to find more from Volek and Phinney, they should enlighten you a bit more, at least to explain things.

But then, whatever you did, you got results, so stick with that.
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  #8   ^
Old Mon, May-21-18, 10:27
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 10,369
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/161/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 84%
Location: USA
Default

There are a lot of wrinkles to this; from Dr. Bernstein’s diabetes book, I discovered that a woman who snacked on whole heads of lettuce drove up her insulin by the sheer “stretching” this imposed on her digestive system.
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