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  #1   ^
Old Tue, Jan-22-08, 23:33
classic86 classic86 is offline
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Posts: 34
 
Plan: very high fat diet
Stats: 185/185/185 Male 6'3"
BF:
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Default very high fat diet

i originally posted this in south beach forum, but their a little fanatical over there so im transfering it here, basically a summary of my very high fat dairy diet; just wanted to see what people think about it since i havent shared this with anyone, btw ive been on this for over a year (im a senior ~ a university);
disclaimer: i dont do this for weight loss, but for health, im one of the skinny people that doesnt gain weight no matter what i eat, however since starting a high fat diet ive seen vast improvements in my muscle structure and health

"dairy is very, very important, but not because its somehow superior to meat, its not, its because its damn near impossible to find fatty-enough meat in a US meat section

the optimal human diet consists of about 80-90% animal fat, the rest is protein; this might come as a surprise to some people but this has roots in our evolutionary history, see before we were ever hunters, we were always scavengers, and what we scavenged on the savanna were for the most animal carcasses, not fruits and veggies...rotting animal corpses ; however, since we did not kill our own prey we always had second pickings after the carnivore was done with the meal, and usually we had to fight over the kill with other scavengers such as hyenas and vultures and also the carnivores such as lions, cheetahs etc. (this is where our amazing ability to throw rocks really shined); see the reason we walk upright not because we're hunters but because we're scavengers, we can see much farther than any animal by being able to climb trees and stand up on our back feet to view the surroundings, helping us find carcasses easier in a grassy savanna environment; this is also why there's a strong sexual selection for height, and why we find it attractive; anyways ill cut this anthropological reason short and get into the meat of things... literally

when a carnivore kills an animal it either eats it all or stashes it and guards it, most of the time we found a carcass the only things that were left were what the other animals couldnt get it; here comes the fun part, humans harvested the brains, the bone marrow, the tongue and the eyes, and whatever scrap meat was left on the bones, what this adds up to is fat, lots of it, to the tune of 80% of our diet with the rest being protein, so our diet was never high carb, but it was never high protein either... (history lesson: first human tools were developed to more efficiently crack open thick bones and animal skulls to get at the fat inside)

to sum all this up, we never evolved to eat alot of protein, and its deff not optimal to eat anything above 20% protein long term, especially when you have all the fat you want available to you; see my diet would undoubtedly be 90% pork fat, but the problem is i cant get my hands on so much fat in fat-phobic US where pigs are bred leaner to sell better to the misinformed masses that cut out their fat off the meat before they cook it, so i turned to the next best thing - dairy! unlike meat, you can get your hands on all the high-fat dairy you want, BUT there are a few issues and ill mention them.

here is my diet - full fat sour cream, light/heavy cream. yea thats IT, (i also take Vit D pills and Vit C, for reasons i dont have the space to go into here); those are the 2 things i eat every day for months and months, and guess what... never felt or looked better in my life; now ill explain why i dont eat cheese or drink milk.. with dairy, you want to get as much fat as you possibly can while getting as little protein and carbs as you can, this disqualifies cheese, milk, even half and half (too watery and low density),(dairy protein casein also has some specific negative aspects besides constipation that i wont go into here, but you can look it up yourself) optimal thing here would be HEAVY CREAM, the holy grail of a high fat diet, but unfortunately just about every heavy cram manufacturer decided to start adding Carrageenan to it, in fact im only able to find one brand of cream at all that doesnt have it, i consider myself lucky (if your not familiar with Carrageenan look it up, ill just say that this is something you DONT want to put into your body, EVER)

so let me break my diet down for you in calorie terms
its 75% animal fat, 50% saturated fat overall, about 10% carbs and about 10% protein (i know it doesnt add up to 100%, sue me); when you cant get your hands on tons of raw animal fat or good natural lard, this is as good as it gets, but when i move to a country where pigs are still pigs ill probably switch to pig fat (interesting fact: when the spaniards first brought pigs, cows and chickens to the mainland, the aztecs hated the taste of beef and chcken, but went ballistic over the taste of pork - it tasted exactly like the human sacrifices they were used to eating!! )
if anyone here is familiar with the Mongols, they conquered half the world on a diet of nothing except dairy and meat...and they were mostly lactose intolerant!! ironic

the Mongols didnt drink milk like people do today, they ate the cream or soured it into sour cream or made cheese, the history lesson is free on the house

cheers

Last edited by classic86 : Wed, Jan-23-08 at 08:06.
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  #2   ^
Old Fri, Feb-15-08, 02:40
Tecumseh Tecumseh is offline
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Posts: 424
 
Plan: Keto-ish Low Carb
Stats: 420/407/240 Male 5'11
BF:
Progress: 7%
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Thanks. I am double majoring in anthropology and sociology. I am almost finished with my sociology work then I will pursue anthropology. I find this kind of stuff fascinating.
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Feb-15-08, 10:40
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Wifezilla Wifezilla is offline
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Posts: 4,367
 
Plan: I'm a Barry Girl
Stats: 250/208/190 Female 72
BF:
Progress: 70%
Location: Colorado
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Quote:
dairy is very, very important, but not because its somehow superior to meat, its not, its because its damn near impossible to find fatty-enough meat in a US meat section


Tell me about it! I have been on a carnivore only eating experiment for the past month. Getting enough fat has been a big problem!
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  #4   ^
Old Sun, Feb-17-08, 12:41
classic86 classic86 is offline
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Posts: 34
 
Plan: very high fat diet
Stats: 185/185/185 Male 6'3"
BF:
Progress:
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id suggest eating meat with sour cream, they go together very well - i know beef and pork do, i dont remember ever trying it with chicken

that should raise your fat-to-protein ratio to at least 50/50 (sour cream is 80% fat by calories if i remember correctly)

since i wrote that up ive actually gone to a pork/creamcheese/sour cream diet, you can only give up meat for so long...

i didnt mention how i cook pork but i chop it into very small pieces (1/2inx1/2in or less) and cook it on high heat in a skillet with the lid off it takes less than 10 minutes to be fully cooked, just have to stand there and flip it over very minute or it will burn; and by cooking it on high heat you get a very different taste from cooking it slowly with the lid on, a taste i much prefer, although on a fire is obviously even better, but i am yet to figure out a way to have an open fire in my kitchen...someday
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  #5   ^
Old Sun, Feb-17-08, 17:24
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Wifezilla Wifezilla is offline
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Posts: 4,367
 
Plan: I'm a Barry Girl
Stats: 250/208/190 Female 72
BF:
Progress: 70%
Location: Colorado
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Quote:
id suggest eating meat with sour cream


This does help. I do that with white meat chicken. Otherwise I get wicked hungry about 2 hours after eating it.
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  #6   ^
Old Sun, Feb-17-08, 17:43
ElleH ElleH is offline
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Posts: 10,352
 
Plan: PP/Atkins Maintenance
Stats: 178/137/137 Female 5'6"
BF:28%
Progress: 100%
Location: Northern Virginia
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I rely heavily on heavy cream to get my fats up. TBL for TBL it has twice the fat and less than half the carbs of sour cream. Sometimes I make a sauce out of the drippings of the meat I've just cooked out of heavy cream, too.

As a matter of fact, I just drank half a cup of cream after dinner tonight (very lightly sweetened with DaVinci Khalua-flavored syrup) to get my fat up to 80% for today. I ate it out of the cup with a spoon...just like melted ice cream!

Classic, I'm curious as to your protein intake in grams per day? It's one thing to say "I eat 75% fat per day,10% carb and 10% protein" but without knowing the grams of anything, I don't know how much it is. And I'm curious if you know the grams of any of them (I can figure it out from any one of them.).

Ya know, it's interesting. We are about to go on a short vacation, and I'm stressing about how I'm going to stay on plan. I could try drinking cream and eating a little bit of meat. The cream in combination with the meat really holds my appetite for a LONG time and kills cravings when I'm at home, and I never seem to remember it when I'm away from home. We'll have a full kitchen and will be eating *most* of our meals in--so it should be very doable. I can't believe it...i actually have hope that I can stay on plan while on a trip. (Haven't had much success there...) It's sad that I can't take any DV syrup with me to spruce them up a little bit (flying)...but I will have sweetener packets with me.

Last edited by ElleH : Sun, Feb-17-08 at 18:34.
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  #7   ^
Old Sun, Feb-17-08, 20:47
classic86 classic86 is offline
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Posts: 34
 
Plan: very high fat diet
Stats: 185/185/185 Male 6'3"
BF:
Progress:
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i really cant give you any concrete numbers my eating schedule is erratic at best, sometimes i eat 3 times a day sometimes only once; most of the time i just eye it, its not like you have to have exact percentages, what your eating is great, to be honest there are days when i want to pig out on protein and others when i dont even want to touch it just want the most fat i can eat

the heavy cream you buy is carrageenan free i take it? i simply cant get any or id be drinking it too believe me

the fact that heavy cream and meat holds your appetite for a long time somehow does not surprise me

why would you have a problem on a trip? what store doesnt carry sour cream, meat and cream cheese? even if you cant get heavy cream its not like your committing heresy by eating other high fat dairy; be flexible, heavy cream is great but your not going to always be able to get your hands on some, so have widely-available alternatives in mind

~wifezilla - interesting thing i just remembered... my favourite food before i ever did low carb was fried chicken wings with blue cheese...oh man i used to eat TONS of them...and people would always tell you how their super bad for your health... life is not without a sense of irony

i never did forgive my parents for forcing me to eat vegetables when i was young... -_-
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  #8   ^
Old Sun, Feb-17-08, 20:55
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Sandollar Sandollar is offline
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Posts: 3,506
 
Plan: LC w/o "counting" carbs.
Stats: 320/259/185 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 45%
Location: Vancouver Island
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Ask your butcher for some suet...he'll probably give it to you for free!
I stuff it in my crockpot with a roast, and when it's rendered down and lovely and salt n' peppery, I pour it into a cup and stick it in the fridge. Whenever I want some fat I just stick the cup in the microwave to liquify it...then sip it like bullion.

If it's good enough for the bird feeder, it's good enough for me!!

I like sour cream on everything. Same with creme fraiche.
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  #9   ^
Old Sun, Feb-17-08, 21:05
classic86 classic86 is offline
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Posts: 34
 
Plan: very high fat diet
Stats: 185/185/185 Male 6'3"
BF:
Progress:
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i actually hated the taste of suet, but i just cooked it like i cook my pork, in the skillet plain no salt or anything, it just melted into a puddle

no idea why, i guess i like my fat to have structure to it, like pork fat i absolutely adore plain in pieces i just chug that stuff down
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  #10   ^
Old Mon, Feb-18-08, 00:14
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waywardsis waywardsis is offline
Dazilous
Posts: 2,657
 
Plan: NeanderkIF
Stats: 140/114/110 Female 5 feet 2 inches
BF:
Progress: 87%
Location: Toronto, ON
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I'm doing the carnivore challenge along with Wifezilla and I agree, it's a challenge getting fat up there! Eggs help - 1 tbsp butter per egg works out to about 80% fat. Forget how much protein though.

Ever read The Optimal Diet by Jan Kwsensomethingski? (note:that is not his last name, I just can't spell it) His idea is that we should eat 1g protein and 3-4g fat per lb "Ideal" body weight.
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  #11   ^
Old Mon, Feb-18-08, 07:00
ElleH ElleH is offline
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Posts: 10,352
 
Plan: PP/Atkins Maintenance
Stats: 178/137/137 Female 5'6"
BF:28%
Progress: 100%
Location: Northern Virginia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classic86
i really cant give you any concrete numbers my eating schedule is erratic at best, sometimes i eat 3 times a day sometimes only once; most of the time i just eye it, its not like you have to have exact percentages, what your eating is great, to be honest there are days when i want to pig out on protein and others when i dont even want to touch it just want the most fat i can eat

the heavy cream you buy is carrageenan free i take it? i simply cant get any or id be drinking it too believe me

the fact that heavy cream and meat holds your appetite for a long time somehow does not surprise me

why would you have a problem on a trip? what store doesnt carry sour cream, meat and cream cheese? even if you cant get heavy cream its not like your committing heresy by eating other high fat dairy; be flexible, heavy cream is great but your not going to always be able to get your hands on some, so have widely-available alternatives in mind

~wifezilla - interesting thing i just remembered... my favourite food before i ever did low carb was fried chicken wings with blue cheese...oh man i used to eat TONS of them...and people would always tell you how their super bad for your health... life is not without a sense of irony

i never did forgive my parents for forcing me to eat vegetables when i was young... -_-


The cream I have has that in it. It's just seaweed or something, isn't it? I guess I better research it. But I doubt it will make me give it up. I won't give up aspartame or MSG, and I doubt this is any worse!!! I haven't noticed any problems with it and lose weight very fast when I add a lot of cream and decrease my protein.

I don't' stay on plan on vacation b/c of the stress of it, the temptations of it, etc. I am not good with just eating the same thing day after day, but for the trip, I will try it, b/c I don't want to go off plan!

Well, if you can just give me an idea of how much you eat on average, that would be great. Not that the eating habits and amounts of a 21 year old male would apply to me!
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  #12   ^
Old Mon, Feb-18-08, 22:35
classic86 classic86 is offline
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Posts: 34
 
Plan: very high fat diet
Stats: 185/185/185 Male 6'3"
BF:
Progress:
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only a month away from 23 actually -_-

carrageenan is bad..BAD stuff, is a few lbs worth risking your long term health for? you make that choice as an adult, there's no right or wrong about it really

"I guess I better research it."
works better when you do it BEFORE you start eating the stuff, im surprised you dont get stomach aches, that stuff wrecks your intestines

http://www.notmilk.com/carageenan.html

have you researched aspartame?

one of the benefits of a high fat diet as you undoubtedly know is that we dont experience hunger like people on high carb diets, i have had terrible appetite last few days, and when i get a sore throat i can fast for days, its a natural reaction of your body to suppress appetite when it needs to repair itself or fight infection, something thats alot harder to do when your constantly throwing loads of carbs in the oven

the process of switching between eating and running off batteries (fat) is so effortless when you eat mostly fat that your body has a much easier time getting you to fast when it needs it, its 11:40pm as i type this and i havent even eaten anything today because i have a sore throat and my appetite is exactly 0, however i never get TRULY sick anymore, i havent had a runny nose or coughing or sneezing fits or sore eyes that you usually get when you get sick - for a year now, a cold is slightly uncomfortable now at worst

Last edited by classic86 : Mon, Feb-18-08 at 22:44.
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  #13   ^
Old Tue, Feb-19-08, 15:18
ElleH ElleH is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 10,352
 
Plan: PP/Atkins Maintenance
Stats: 178/137/137 Female 5'6"
BF:28%
Progress: 100%
Location: Northern Virginia
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Yes, I've researched aspartame. I don't use much of it, but I do use a little.

I've never heard of carrageenen being controversial before yesterday...so researching it wouldn't have occurred to me. No, my stomach is fine. I feel great, actually, since I went back what I call "high-fatting" a few days ago.

Yes, dear, I am an adult--old enough to be your mother, in fact. Maybe age will teach you to soften your delivery? Just b/c you're on the internet doesn't mean manners don't matter.

Thanks for the info re: fat. I've been doing it for a while myself. Not to the extent you do, but I'm betting I eat more fat than 99.99% of the people on this board.

Last edited by ElleH : Tue, Feb-19-08 at 15:30.
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  #14   ^
Old Tue, Feb-19-08, 17:32
M Levac M Levac is offline
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Posts: 6,498
 
Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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VHF diet. LOL, that works for me. Next, UHF diet.

I feel lucky to have come across this thread. I just started buying and drinking heavy cream. I drank almost one full quart since yesterday and had another full quart in the fridge. I threw them out. No use keeping them at this point.

I'm in Montreal and we have quite a selection of butchers and other meat markets, especially on boulevard Saint-Laurent. I guess I'm the lucky guy here for that. Anyway, I discovered that butcher who's been there for as long as I've been alive and he has the best pork cuts I could find anywhere. Well to be honest, I didn't look any further once I figured it out. I'm chewing on bacon strips all day long from now on. I eat a selection of cheap but excellent pork meat. It's surprising how good the meat is even though it's very cheap compared to other prime cuts. Last I went there, I told him keep the fat on. He replied fat is the best part. It's all good. It takes a while to get used to the amount of fat I eat but I think I'll be ready to eat full fat lard eventually.

Basically, I want to eat about as much fat as I can. I figured that the more fat I eat, the faster I use the fat I have on my body. It's a matter of BMR. But maybe it's more subtle than that. I don't know, I'll see how it goes.
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  #15   ^
Old Tue, Feb-19-08, 20:30
classic86 classic86 is offline
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Posts: 34
 
Plan: very high fat diet
Stats: 185/185/185 Male 6'3"
BF:
Progress:
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"I figured that the more fat I eat, the faster I use the fat I have on my body."

no, the more fat you eat, the less carbs you eat which means you pack on less fat, but to get rid of your existing "reserves" you have to consume less calories than your burning day after day, a high fat diet allows you to do this painlessly, and by cutting off the carbs its just a matter of time before you cut down your fat stores; you cant pig out on pork and expect to burn off your stores, your body doesnt turn to fat stores unless you burn more than you put in, and a fatty pound of pork has ALOT of energy

now, once you burn off the fat reserves you can pig out on porkchops as much as you want since your not eating carbs you wont pack the fat back on

most people severely underestimate the amount of time they can fast, if you have 15 pounds of adipose fat you can go for a month without eating, most people now feel so dependent on food they forget that we're extremely adapted to starvation, in fact most of our cellular cleaning processes dont even become activated until we are in fasting mode, which in short means regular fasting is extremely good for your health, but ill leave that story to another time


elleh - i assure you my mother doesnt get any special treatment as far as my manners are concerned; whenever i come by now she's afraid to even have fruit lying
around -_-

Last edited by classic86 : Tue, Feb-19-08 at 20:37.
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