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  #1   ^
Old Fri, Dec-16-11, 15:51
msinformed's Avatar
msinformed msinformed is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 222
 
Plan: Not sure right now
Stats: 241/234/175 Female 66
BF:
Progress: 11%
Unhappy Here to change for good, but having a hard time not getting frustrated!

Hi guys! Soo here's my story.. I'm 36 years old. I have never been a skinny girl, but never extremely obese either. Since I was a child I have always weighed a lot but never looked like it based on the number on the scale. My current weight is 235 and I am a size 16. I fluctuate between about 190-220 pretty consistantly. Besides being pregnant, I have never weighed this much in my life. I've never been an extremely active person, but at least my career in retail management kept me on my feet most of the day. Last January I took a desk job right after doing a round of the HCG diet and gained 30 lbs within 2 months. I believe HCG wreaked HAVOC on my metabolism as now I am having such a hard time taking weight off. I am 7 and a half weeks in to eating LC and have only taken off 9 lbs. I am trying to pay attention to how my body reacts to different calorie levels, foods, carbs, etc.. but it seems that no matter WHAT I do my weight stays the same. I can eat 1300 calories high protein, high fat and low carb and not lose a thing, while I can have 2 cheat days back to back with hundreds of grams of carbs and sugar and 4,000 calories and not lose or gain either. It's getting SOOO frustrating as I'm completely SICK of obsessing about food. Currently I am doing Atkins and intermittant fasting.. Eating only between the hours of 9 am and 7 pm. While I feel better and sleeping better I really need to get about 50 lbs off. If I let my carbs get too low I get EXTREMELY irritable and angry. I joined a gym yesterday and will meet with my trainer for the first time in a couple of days. I am hoping someone has some good advice because I'm almost ready to give up and just go back to not thinking about what I eat anymore.. : /
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  #2   ^
Old Fri, Dec-16-11, 18:42
freckles's Avatar
freckles freckles is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,730
 
Plan: Atkins Maintenance
Stats: 213/141/150 Female 5'4 1/2"
BF:
Progress: 114%
Location: Dallas, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msinformed
I am 7 and a half weeks in to eating LC and have only taken off 9 lbs. I am trying to pay attention to how my body reacts to different calorie levels, foods, carbs, etc.. but it seems that no matter WHAT I do my weight stays the same. I can eat 1300 calories high protein, high fat and low carb and not lose a thing, while I can have 2 cheat days back to back with hundreds of grams of carbs and sugar and 4,000 calories and not lose or gain either. It's getting SOOO frustrating as I'm completely SICK of obsessing about food.


I think 9 lbs in 8 weeks is fabulous progress, particularly if you're having "cheat days."
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Dec-16-11, 20:53
msinformed's Avatar
msinformed msinformed is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 222
 
Plan: Not sure right now
Stats: 241/234/175 Female 66
BF:
Progress: 11%
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Thank you for your support After reading more on this site, I think the problem was wayy too high protein, not enough fat. Tomorrow is a new day and I am ready to see if this helps. Right now I'm eating about 60% protein 30% fat 10% carbs.. I def need to realign my macros..
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  #4   ^
Old Sat, Dec-17-11, 09:06
Elizellen's Avatar
Elizellen Elizellen is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,733
 
Plan: Atkins (DANDR)
Stats: 290/141/130 Female 65.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 93%
Location: Bournemouth (UK)
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Welcome to the forums, Ms I!

It sounds as if you have done your research and are ready to carry on your journey towards a slimmer healthier you!!
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  #5   ^
Old Sat, Dec-17-11, 09:58
aj_cohn's Avatar
aj_cohn aj_cohn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,948
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 213/167/165 Male 65 in.
BF:35%/23%/20%
Progress: 96%
Location: United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msinformed
Thank you for your support After reading more on this site, I think the problem was wayy too high protein, not enough fat. Tomorrow is a new day and I am ready to see if this helps. Right now I'm eating about 60% protein 30% fat 10% carbs.. I def need to realign my macros..


You're spot on! Many members in this forum have macros of 65–75% fat, 20–25% protein, and 5–10% carbs. Mine are about 70/21/6 (blame my software for not adding up to 100%). You can get a rough idea of what your macro ratio should be with this calclulator.

Also, be aware that the relationship between exercise and weight loss is the subject of controversy on this forum. The article "The Scientist and the Stairmaster" and chapter 3 from Why We Get Fat is at one end of the spectrum. At the other end, I've heard from some forum members here that exercise is an essential part of their weight loss and produced results without any change to what they ate.

I'm not saying that exercise is useless; far from it. I think, though, that the jury's still out on proving that exercise helps with weight loss. Based on my reading (on this forum and elsewhere) and personal experience, I've chosen to do a mix of weightlifting, isometric, and a 20-minute HIIT routine (Turbulence Training; god-awful marketing, but a good program) + stability ball for core work 2 days out of 3.
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  #6   ^
Old Sat, Dec-17-11, 19:21
msinformed's Avatar
msinformed msinformed is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 222
 
Plan: Not sure right now
Stats: 241/234/175 Female 66
BF:
Progress: 11%
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Thx AJ.. Would you mind sharing what a typical days diet looks like for you?
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  #7   ^
Old Sat, Dec-17-11, 19:28
aj_cohn's Avatar
aj_cohn aj_cohn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,948
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 213/167/165 Male 65 in.
BF:35%/23%/20%
Progress: 96%
Location: United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msinformed
Thx AJ.. Would you mind sharing what a typical days diet looks like for you?


Click on the "journal" button at the bottom of my post. I log my food daily, so you can get a good idea of what I eat. I've posted some of my recipes in the "Member Recipes" section of the forum.
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  #8   ^
Old Sat, Dec-17-11, 20:11
euphoricme's Avatar
euphoricme euphoricme is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 223
 
Plan: Keto
Stats: 279/206/200 Male 6'
BF:
Progress: 92%
Location: Pittsburgh
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I love Gary Taubes, don't get me wrong. He is almost the single reason that I have turned my weight around.

That said.

I do believe a calorie deficit - even on a high-carb diet - can cause weight-loss, especially if you are exercising.

It is true that calories in calories out is a weak formula at best for many reasons. In the end though if you are consuming less calories than you are burning it is thermodynamically impossible for you to retain weight.

The main problem arises from the fact that after exercising you do work up an appetite. For those of us on this forum I would say it is generally difficult enough to ignore food cravings even under normal circumstances - let alone when you burn an extra 2k calories on a treadmill and your body is screaming at you that it wants it's fuel reserves back. If that isn't bad enough your body may even lower it's metabolism to keep up with the calorie deficit, even if you are exercising.

I think this is where LC diets, particularly ketosis trump other diets. Once you are happily running off of body-fat you have all the energy you could possibly need... Your body is happily burning its fuel reserves already - as it was designed to do in ketosis.

So I guess what I am trying to say is that I am theorizing that exercise while on a low-carb diet doesn't come with the problems it would on a higher-carb diet - "working up a hunger". Your body recognizes it has no need for extra fuel, even after exercising as it has hundreds of thousands of calories (millions?) readily available to it.

I have absolutely no research, studies or personal evidence to back that up... It is just a personal opinion.
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  #9   ^
Old Sat, Dec-17-11, 20:22
aj_cohn's Avatar
aj_cohn aj_cohn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,948
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 213/167/165 Male 65 in.
BF:35%/23%/20%
Progress: 96%
Location: United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoricme
It is true that calories in calories out is a weak formula at best for many reasons. In the end though if you are consuming less calories than you are burning it is thermodynamically impossible for you to retain weight.


This is a misapplication of the classical laws of thermodynamics, which apply only to closed, inorganic systems. The apply to some unknown extent to open, biological systems. Due to the actions of genetics, epigenetics, and hormones, it is possible to create a caloric deficit and not lose weight. The experience of the Pima Indians is an example of this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoricme
...let alone when you burn an extra 2k calories on a treadmill and your body is screaming at you that it wants it's fuel reserves back.


Unless you're hooked up to equipment that monitors you at a cellular level (or calculates that activity based on some biological proxy markers), it's difficult to get even a reasonable estimate of your caloric output. The displays on commercial treadmills also misapply the classical laws of thermodynamics, assuming your weight is an inert mass.

Your idea about the body's sensing of energy reserves during exercise while eating LC is intriguing. in a recent blog post, Dr. Briffa referred to a study where eating low-carb prior to a workout doubled the rate of fat oxidation during treadmill running. Still, the release of fat for energy is rate-limited. Your body needs to use glucose to support intense exercise for more than a short while, because the body can't metabolize fat fast enough. If you don't supply glucose or sucrose (as well as MCTs) during intense, long-duration exercise, e.g., a 100-mile bike ride, or a marathon, you will "hit a wall" or "bonk."

Last edited by aj_cohn : Sat, Dec-17-11 at 20:39.
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  #10   ^
Old Sun, Dec-18-11, 11:26
euphoricme's Avatar
euphoricme euphoricme is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 223
 
Plan: Keto
Stats: 279/206/200 Male 6'
BF:
Progress: 92%
Location: Pittsburgh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aj_cohn
This is a misapplication of the classical laws of thermodynamics, which apply only to closed, inorganic systems. The apply to some unknown extent to open, biological systems. Due to the actions of genetics, epigenetics, and hormones, it is possible to create a caloric deficit and not lose weight. The experience of the Pima Indians is an example of this.


It is not a misapplication. It is impossible to retain weight if you are running a true calorie deficit. Biologically it just isn't so easy to run a calorie deficit as your body will slow your metabolism down accordingly. If your body is actually burning 3k calories a day and you are only eating 2 you will burn fat.

I mean, lets be sensible about this for a minute... We all agree that your body can not run off of zero energy (I hope)... Suggesting that your body will not lose weight on a calorie deficit not only suggests that it can run off of zero energy but that it is also capable of creating energy from nothing.

Also, I am a stone mason. My days involve 10-12 hours of constant aerobic and anaerobic exercise. I've had a fitness trainer and an ex-marine come out, the work was too hard for both. The fitness trainer quit after 3 days and the ex-marine 1 week.

My body at least has little trouble meeting my extremely intense energy requirements for long durations while in ketosis, I can't speak for others though. I hit no brick wall, although I do build them lol.

I should note that if I am not really careful about eating <20 grams of carbs per day I will get tired while working... Actually it presents itself in the form of dizziness and loss-of-balance after doing hard work for 20 minutes or so. I think that being in "really heavy ketosis" provides my body with as much energy as it needs. If I step up to even 30 grams a day I will start getting dizzy at work.
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  #11   ^
Old Sun, Dec-18-11, 11:52
aj_cohn's Avatar
aj_cohn aj_cohn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,948
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 213/167/165 Male 65 in.
BF:35%/23%/20%
Progress: 96%
Location: United States
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I can't argue with your personal experience, but I do disagree with your interpretation of it. I never said that bodies can run off of zero energy; that would have been a reducto ad absurdum logical fallacy. Such an assertion would be similar to what Anthony Colpo claims: that near-starvation-level metabolic ward studies that show no difference in high- and low-carb diets prove that there is no difference between the two. What I'm saying is that it's possible, at caloric levels above starvation, for a person to run a caloric deficit and not lose weight. This is especially true on a high-carb diet, but due to hormonal factors, long term obesity or repeated weight cycling, this phenomenon can be true for low-carbers, too.

For example, I know that a lot of Latinos in california are in the moving business. It's hard, physical work and long hours. When I hired my moving company, I bought them a traditional, high-carb lunch at a tacqueria. The young guys on the crew were skinny, but the older guys had a big belly. Same work, different results.

Maybe the older guys' metabolisms were slower, and therefore, they were, in effect, overeating, and not creating a caloric deficit. The point is, even anecdotal evidence contradicts the simple linear assertion you propose between calories and weight loss.

If you want to continue this discussion further, let's take it to the war zone. It wouldn't be appropriate for this thread.

Last edited by aj_cohn : Sun, Dec-18-11 at 15:27.
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  #12   ^
Old Sun, Dec-18-11, 18:22
euphoricme's Avatar
euphoricme euphoricme is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 223
 
Plan: Keto
Stats: 279/206/200 Male 6'
BF:
Progress: 92%
Location: Pittsburgh
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Well I don't think it is worth a whole thread.

I must however point out that I do not feel you can have it both ways - Saying that bodies can not run off of zero energy - and not lose weight on a calorie deficit. As you pointed out, it is absurd.
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  #13   ^
Old Mon, Dec-19-11, 01:39
Brinethery's Avatar
Brinethery Brinethery is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,387
 
Plan: 160g animal protein/day
Stats: 185/167/165 Female 5'10
BF:35
Progress: 90%
Location: Algona, WA, US
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that a diet rich in carbs (in particular, a semi-starvation regimen with a majority of the calories being carbohydrates) would first cause a slow in metabolism. Then, a loss in muscle mass and finally, a loss in fat. Maybe I'm wrong?

Would anyone have an article on hand from a reliable source that discusses this?

Last edited by Brinethery : Mon, Dec-19-11 at 01:58.
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  #14   ^
Old Mon, Dec-19-11, 05:57
Fungusgirl's Avatar
Fungusgirl Fungusgirl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 339
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 270/238.5/120 Female 5'3
BF:
Progress: 21%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msinformed
Thank you for your support After reading more on this site, I think the problem was wayy too high protein, not enough fat. Tomorrow is a new day and I am ready to see if this helps. Right now I'm eating about 60% protein 30% fat 10% carbs.. I def need to realign my macros..


Welcome! I am back here and have a boat load to lose! I feel your pain and we can all work on it together!

Also, that little calculator thing was neat...told me I needed 69 in fat and 44.5 ounces in protein...
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  #15   ^
Old Mon, Dec-19-11, 07:39
brblight's Avatar
brblight brblight is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 69
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 217/198/150 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 28%
Location: Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msinformed
I fluctuate between about 190-220 pretty consistantly. : /

This could be my story, but I just started Atkins, following the book exactly, because I really am brand new to this WOE, I think that one of the reasons that it takes us so long to get started, is actually seeing a number on the scale go down, even when the signs are there that we are getting better. Maybe so many years of hanging on to the weight, [I have been sitting between 210 and 220 for 3 yrs now] we just need to be patient and wait for our bodies to heal first. I notice so many people lose so quickly in the beginning, that it is almost depressing when I don't see the same success. I even let it all go this weekend and ate lots of holiday goodies...:sad:
But I am just going to let that go and continue on, (not start over) because all I did was slip, not fall.
Lets not give up together....
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