I've been weight training for about a year now, and I'm in the middle of another program redesign. I have been doing squats on a Hammer Press machine until now, and using various sorts of hamstring curl machines. However, I'm bored to tears with the hamstring curls, and frustrated with the Hammer Press not fitting me right, so I think I'm finally ready to move on to barbell squats and deadlifts.

So I've been doing a bit of reading, and there seem to be a lot of contradictory opinions out there about doing deadlifts as part of legs vs. as part of back, whether deadlifts and squats should be done on the same day, and which one you should do first. My new program is a three-day-split (chest/triceps, back/biceps, and legs/shoulders). The back exercises are pretty much all upper back, not lower, so deadlifts could fit in without too much trouble. I'm aiming for squats, leg presses, and seated/standing calf raises on the leg program, and will add some hamstring curls if I do deadlifts on back day. Does anyone have any opinions as to where the deadlifts would fit in best? If I do them both on leg day, would you recommend doing squats before deadlifts or vice versa?

Hi there -

I don't know what squats on a hammer press machine look like, but I would strongly urge you to consider switching to free weights for this.

I find deadlifts get both my hams and my lower back. I do them, hack squats and leg curls on hamstring day.

If I do barbell deads, I find they hit my back more. Dumbbell deads hit my hammies more, because I can bend my knees and really stick my butt out.

And I do them separate from quads right now, but that may change at some point.

The squat machine is your standard plate-loaded job with pads that go over your shoulders -- you stand under it, release the support, and squat just as with free weights. However, the shoulder pads are uncomfortably wide and hit me on the point of the shoulder, and I've finally gotten my quads built up to the point where I think I can handle barbells. I have a bum knee (partial ACL tear and cartilage damage, surgically repaired some years ago), and I did not want to take the risk of doing something stupid and re-injuring it. I know squats aren't dangerous to knees if done properly, but the machine will save you from yourself if your form slips from fatigue or overload. I'd always planned to switch to free weights eventually, and now that my quads are much stronger and my knee more stable, I think I'm ready for it. So that's not in question -- just whether doing the deadlifts on the same day is a bad idea. Like I said, there are a lot of differing opinions out there, and I'm just wondering what everyone prefers around here.

Actually, the stationary squat machines are more hazardous to knees because of the shear - you are frozen in place, and can't sway forward. This puts a terrible strain on the knee joint. Personally, I would never use one. They're just too hard on the knees.

Good replies of course Built, we keep ending up in the same threads lately I've read lots of articles backing up what you said about squat machines being hard on the knees.

My two cents based on what I'm doing, is squat first, then deadlift. After much research, reading, and trying it out, I do SLDL (straight legged deadlift) on leg day and regular deadlifts on back day. I also highly recommend doing good mornings after you do SLDL. I have done both SLDL and reg. DL in the same day, it's very taxing, but can be done. I do it as a last resort, if I missed a workout. Hope that was helpful.

Thanks Dark. This is really helpful to me.

Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for, Dark!

Glad it was useful

Interesting... I'm not sure I'm doing my SLDLs right...never have been. Do them with the barbell though, and my back feels it (good feels it. but I don't get a lot of hammie workout. I'd like to try dumbbells but I just don't have any heavy enough I think...

Yeah, I feel it more in my back with the bar...

...and more in my hammies with the dumbbells. I start with the dumbbells DIRECTLY over my feet on the floor. I grip them and lean back, as if I'm hanging onto handles on the floor, and really stick my ass out. Knees a bit bent. Then straight up, shoulders back. This, I really feel in the ol' hammies.


Hypers are great for 'em too:


I really hold it at the top, squeezing the glutes hard before releasing to go down.

Hypers are what I use as a glute/ham exercise at the end of hamstring day ... Just like Built said ... I hold a 45 plate, go down 3/4 of the way and pull myself up straight with my low back/glutes. SQUEEZE at the top ... LOL ... You could bounce quarters off that puppy back there ...

Personally, I do deads on back day ... since the top part of the motion (the finish/"lock") WILL help you feel it in your upper back.

At the top of the move, when you are upright holding the weight, retract your scapula ... hold for a 1 count, then lower the weight bck to the floor.

EXACTLY what Dan said.

Presently I do the same as DarkLotus, SLDL on leg day and Regular Deads on back day. I tried doing Goodmornings but I find the bar rolls up my neck a little and I get a nasty bruise on the back of my neck. I think it's probably due to my bum shoulder making it hard to hold the bar securely. Anyone got any tips for keeping it in place?

Yeah, a bar pad you get at walmart for $3.00 works great. Better than a towel anyhow. I had a dormouse once, great pets. I miss them

Do the DLs either on back day or leg day, whatever you prefer. If you do DLs on back day, start with them. I do my DLs on leg day. What is your limiting factor for squats... your back strength or your leg strength? Remember, DLs will use up back strength for that workout. I usually do DLs first, then squats. BTW, forget leg curls if you're squatting... your hams will get nicely toasted with the squats, as will your glutes. Leg curls are an addition once in whaile, but not necessary on a regular basis if you're squatting. Finally, the leg press is a bit redundant if you're squatting. Leg press is really a squat without the back exercise. Do leg extensions instead.