Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low-Carb Studies & Research / Media Watch > LC Research/Media
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16   ^
Old Wed, Mar-29-17, 15:23
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 10,436
 
Plan: ketosis/IF
Stats: 190/158/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 89%
Location: Ontario
Default

I can't really say that I've tried eating like these people, quite. Low fat, sure. But with a very different set of staples, lots of wheat, a fairly refined diet, totally different lifestyle. Personally I did do pretty well when I did it, but it ripped much of the pleasure out of eating for me, so it never lasted long enough to see whether it would have done me any permanent harm. Certainly carbohydrate in the forms I was actually willing to eat on a regular basis did me no good.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #17   ^
Old Wed, Mar-29-17, 16:15
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 9,609
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/162/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 83%
Location: USA
Default

I believe they were saying that the carb, at least, was not processed?
Reply With Quote
  #18   ^
Old Wed, Mar-29-17, 16:59
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is online now
Posts: 2,651
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/122/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 112%
Location: Vermont
Default

For a whole variety of reasons I don't think there is anything much you can generalize from the population being studied to our modern society. There is both too much wrong with all aspects of the "design" of the study and also too many differences between the population studied and our "modern" society that there really isn't anything much you can conclude. That's the primary take away I get from Zoe Harcombe's article.

Jean
Reply With Quote
  #19   ^
Old Wed, Mar-29-17, 22:44
M Levac M Levac is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,168
 
Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Default

Zoe says "Heart disease is a disease of civilization". Without context, we could easily fall into the trap of concluding that civilization causes heart disease, then look for specific factors which make a civilization and blame that in part, i.e. smoking, industrial chemicals, "stress" (whatever that means), etc. The proper context is "diseases of civilization", always with comparison to traditional populations as in Weston Price's Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, because it's not just one disease, it's a whole bunch of them and they always come together, and because it's not some factor or other out of many depending on the specific disease, it's the same factor for all diseases.

This factor is sugar and wheat.

For example, smoking. Do we have to be reminded that civilization is not where smoking tobacco came from? Granted, smoking may be a contributor for a particular disease or two, but we can still suffer all the same diseases of civilization to the same degree even if we never inhaled a single smoke particle, so long as we ate enough sugar and wheat for long enough. Which means, for our purpose with the Tsimane, if we remove or significantly reduce sugar and wheat at the population level, smoking to any degree is going to have almost zero impact on outcomes for its related disease of civilization, i.e. heart disease, because smoking ain't it.

I could also argue that hammers are the primary cause of thumb injuries, and we would certainly see a strong correlation between the total number of hammers and thumb injury incidence, but what if we also looked at time-to-heal (which means infection incidence and so forth because wound stays open and allows nasties to go deeper) and found that somehow it wasn't so cut and dry? Well, we can't blame hammers for that, but we could blame sugar and wheat for example, through a simple direct causality sequence where growth hormone is essential to healing, hyperglycemia inhibits growth hormone, sugar and wheat cause hyperglycemia.

Zoe says "The level of physical activity is significant."

But completely, utterly, and absolutely inconsequential. Health leads to physical activity, not the other way around.

For the rest of her post, maybe, I only skimmed it for the obvious.
Reply With Quote
  #20   ^
Old Thu, Mar-30-17, 03:27
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 10,436
 
Plan: ketosis/IF
Stats: 190/158/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 89%
Location: Ontario
Default

I don't think you can outrun smoking, or the SAD. Maybe you can outrun the Tsimane diet.

Stress does push animals towards metabolic syndrome.

One thing about the Tsimane activity levels--the benefit of exercise is obvious to the Tsimane. Grind away on the treadmill, what do you get? To do it again tomorrow. Go hunting, or go out tend your crops/gather wild foods, what do you get? The food. The less abstract the reward for work is, I find the easier it is to stay motivated. To the extent that exercise is protective, maybe it's also important that it be rewarding.
Reply With Quote
  #21   ^
Old Thu, Mar-30-17, 05:02
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 9,609
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/162/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 83%
Location: USA
Default

But the Tsimane are not "grinding away on the treadmill." They are simply staying active. Repetitive, but not straining or exertional, it sounded like.

One takeaway from Zoe I did totally agree with: no one is going to choose that lifestyle for its heart benefits.
Reply With Quote
  #22   ^
Old Thu, Mar-30-17, 05:30
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 10,436
 
Plan: ketosis/IF
Stats: 190/158/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 89%
Location: Ontario
Default

I do agree with Zoe to in a sort of macro-sense, it's just some nitty details I'm not sure about.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 16:29.


Copyright © 2000-2017 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.