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  #1   ^
Old Tue, Aug-07-12, 21:18
jica2000 jica2000 is offline
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Posts: 9
 
Plan: continue LC
Stats: 150/150/150 Male 173cm
BF:
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Default Temporay insulin resistance caused by kotogenic diet eliminated

1. Introduction
I'm type 2 diabetic. And I'm the manager of the Korean Diabetes Forum
named "Diabetes & Low Carb Diet".
I belive a low carb diet is the best solution to control blood sugar.

Please click here what my Diabetes Forum like.
http://cafe.naver.com/ArticleList.n...rch.boardtype=L

Several months of a very low carb diet made me very sensitive
to carbohydrates.

2. So, I had 2(two) questions such as:

Q1. Insulin secretion ability decreased?
My over-sensitiveness to carbs caused by a ketogenic diet
is not related with the insulin secretion ability.

It is a (temporary) insulin-resistance resulted from a ketogenic diet
and it can be removed when I begin a normal diet.

So, I have conducted on experiments.
I stopped a ketogenic diet 4 days ago and went to a normal diet
because I wanted to check if my over-sensitiveness to carbs
can be removed.
So, every meal I ate 140g of steamed brown rice.

Q2. Is it possible to go back to the postprandial blood glucose level
where I was well controlled?
(my postprandial peak glucose was under 150 for 140g of brown rice
before applying a very low carb diet)

Yes, from my experiments it took me 4 days to return.
It took me 4 days(10 meals).

(Sun) Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner
(Mon) Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner
(Tue) Breakfast


Experiment (Day 1): Peak glucose 190 (http://cafe.naver.com/ebekoji/5463)
Experiment (Day 2): Peak glucose 200 (http://cafe.naver.com/ebekoji/5464)
Experiment (Day 3): Peak glucose 171 (http://cafe.naver.com/ebekoji/5470)
Experiment (Day 4): Peak glucose 125 (http://cafe.naver.com/ebekoji/5486)


3. What I learned from experiments

(A) Extreme-sensitiveness to carbs(high after meal blood sugar) caused by a very low carb diet
can be removed in a few days if we stop a very low carb diet
and start a normal diet.

(B) A very low carb diet doesn't make pancreas die but rest, which is good for pancreas.

(C) I no longer feel guilty for those who followed me a very low carb diet and have "extreme sensitiveness to carbs(hereinafter "the symptom)", because I proved "the symptom" can be removed when we go back to a normal diet.

They clearly understood why they have "the symptom" and if they don't like "the symptom" they can increase carbohydrate intake within the cap of their acceptable highs of postprandial blood sugar.

Quote:
Answers from Daytona,I know that when you go very low carb, to the point where your body makes ketones, a general insulin resistance is a positive adaptation. In this case, since you muscles can run off of fat, they become insulin resistant to ensure that any available glucose is spared for organs that cannot use ketones or fats (e.g. some brain cells, the retina, etc). This is a good thing and isn't really the same thing as "insulin resistance" that most doctors and media discuss.
If you stop eating very low carb, the adaptation will go away and your body will resume using glucose as its primary fuel instead of fats/ketones. This type of insulin resistance is temporary.
However if one eats very low carb with regular "cheats", the result (especially in someone metabolically impaired, like a diabetic) could be a combination of poor keto-adaptation and insulin resistance. In this state, fats aren't used efficiently, ketones are not produced in high enough levels to adequately fuel the brain but the muscles have some level of insulin resistance which would keep blood sugars high when cheating. I would not recommend doing this... Pick a side "ketosis or not" and stick with it.

Last edited by jica2000 : Wed, Aug-08-12 at 00:05.
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  #2   ^
Old Wed, Aug-08-12, 08:07
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Drs Atkins and Eades both advise eating higher carb (150g I think) 3-4 days prior to a glucose tolerance test because you stop making certain enzymes to process carbs during VLC.
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  #3   ^
Old Wed, Aug-08-12, 14:05
ICDogg's Avatar
ICDogg ICDogg is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,563
 
Plan: Low carb, high fat keto
Stats: 310/212/183 Male 6'0"
BF:D
Progress: 77%
Location: Philadelphia area
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Interesting posts on that site diagramming the rise and fall of blood glucose after eating certain meals.

As far as a GTT, I've never had one and doubt I would ever need one.
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  #4   ^
Old Wed, Aug-08-12, 15:23
jica2000 jica2000 is offline
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Posts: 9
 
Plan: continue LC
Stats: 150/150/150 Male 173cm
BF:
Progress:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
Drs Atkins and Eades both advise eating higher carb (150g I think) 3-4 days prior to a glucose tolerance test because you stop making certain enzymes to process carbs during VLC.


Yes, I read it from somewhere that we have to eat a normal diet before going to OGTT. Thanks.
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  #5   ^
Old Wed, Aug-08-12, 15:30
jica2000 jica2000 is offline
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Posts: 9
 
Plan: continue LC
Stats: 150/150/150 Male 173cm
BF:
Progress:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ICDogg
Interesting posts on that site diagramming the rise and fall of blood glucose after eating certain meals.

As far as a GTT, I've never had one and doubt I would ever need one.


As I am a strong believer of Dr. Bernstein and I am the manager of the Korean forum named "Diabetes & Low Carb Diet", I always want to share my recipes good for PP blood sugar.

But, several months of a very low carb diet made me extra sensitiveness to carbs which I thought my pancreas dead.

From the above experiments I've found the extra sensitiveness to carbs is not related with the insulin secretion ability of pancreas but with temporary insulin resistance made by a very low carb diet which can be eliminated when we go back to a normal diet.

Anyway, as I am diabetic, I will go back to where I belong(=a very low carb diet).
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  #6   ^
Old Thu, Aug-09-12, 02:43
jica2000 jica2000 is offline
New Member
Posts: 9
 
Plan: continue LC
Stats: 150/150/150 Male 173cm
BF:
Progress:
Default

http://paleohacks.com/questions/126...y#axzz232KLx3ew

Quote:
Low-carbohydrate diets generally help reduce the harmful form of insulin resistance associated with type 2 diabetes, abdominal obesity and PCOS.

However, a very low carb intake can also induce a non-harmful and reversible form of insulin resistance to spare glucose for your brain. This type of insulin resistance is mild and is not associated with disease. It is reversible once you reintroduce a bit more carbs back into your diet. This is why an OGTT (oral glucose tolerance test) will NOT BE VALID if you are eating less than 50-100 grams of carbs a day. Most doctors are unfortunately not aware of it and may mistakenly diagnose you with diabetes or gestational diabetes (if you are pregnant). If you are going for such a test, make sure you reintroduce more carbs in your diet for about a week to get more accurate results.
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  #7   ^
Old Mon, Aug-13-12, 20:27
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 19,177
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

This is exactly the information I have been looking for.

I think this is why Atkins talks about slow increases in carbs per day like 5 carbs a day. THough he only focuses on finding the maximum without causing weight gain.


I have very strange rections. Well, it has happened two times. over 3-4 weeks.

I eat, and fall asleep within a short time. Atkins writes about the guy that indulges and falls asleep at the red light . I often think of that man. I need to read this in the morning-- a lot here to digest.
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  #8   ^
Old Tue, Aug-14-12, 08:22
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 19,177
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jica2000
1. Introduction
I'm type 2 diabetic. And I'm the manager of the Korean Diabetes Forum
named "Diabetes & Low Carb Diet".
I belive a low carb diet is the best solution to control blood sugar.

Please click here what my Diabetes Forum like.
http://cafe.naver.com/ArticleList.n...rch.boardtype=L

Several months of a very low carb diet made me very sensitive
to carbohydrates.

2. So, I had 2(two) questions such as:

Q1. Insulin secretion ability decreased?
My over-sensitiveness to carbs caused by a ketogenic diet
is not related with the insulin secretion ability.

It is a (temporary) insulin-resistance resulted from a ketogenic diet
and it can be removed when I begin a normal diet.

So, I have conducted on experiments.
I stopped a ketogenic diet 4 days ago and went to a normal diet
because I wanted to check if my over-sensitiveness to carbs
can be removed.
So, every meal I ate 140g of steamed brown rice.

Q2. Is it possible to go back to the postprandial blood glucose level
where I was well controlled?
(my postprandial peak glucose was under 150 for 140g of brown rice
before applying a very low carb diet)

Yes, from my experiments it took me 4 days to return.
It took me 4 days(10 meals).

(Sun) Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner
(Mon) Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner
(Tue) Breakfast


Experiment (Day 1): Peak glucose 190 (http://cafe.naver.com/ebekoji/5463)
Experiment (Day 2): Peak glucose 200 (http://cafe.naver.com/ebekoji/5464)
Experiment (Day 3): Peak glucose 171 (http://cafe.naver.com/ebekoji/5470)
Experiment (Day 4): Peak glucose 125 (http://cafe.naver.com/ebekoji/5486)


3. What I learned from experiments

(A) Extreme-sensitiveness to carbs(high after meal blood sugar) caused by a very low carb diet
can be removed in a few days if we stop a very low carb diet
and start a normal diet.

(B) A very low carb diet doesn't make pancreas die but rest, which is good for pancreas.

(C) I no longer feel guilty for those who followed me a very low carb diet and have "extreme sensitiveness to carbs(hereinafter "the symptom)", because I proved "the symptom" can be removed when we go back to a normal diet.

They clearly understood why they have "the symptom" and if they don't like "the symptom" they can increase carbohydrate intake within the cap of their acceptable highs of postprandial blood sugar.





I have re-read everything after some sleep.

I love the detail in which you have investigated and reported.

THis supports a "no cheat"low carb diet to maintain an adequate level of ketosis for the body to function smoothly and maintain correct blood sugar levels.

consistent low carb diet
no cheats

I suspect that the increase in carbs triggered my two episodes of falling asleep. THe sweet cheats were small compared to my previous way of eating but certainly cheats as verified by my bodies reaction.

SOme of the LC diet methods allow all the days allotment of carbs in one sitting; and even one permits a sweet after one meal in a day. This has inherent problems. (Having tried the latter I was back to binging within 24 hours. Conseqently I abandoned THAT diet.) Atkins and PP are clear about spreading the carbs over the 3 meals. ATkins also is clear about a slow 5 carb increase per day for a week before adding 5 more grams. I think he knew of this problem but just never explained it. Now I know.

THank you for this info, I have been asking for the last few weeks and no one had a definitive answer. Now I do!
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  #9   ^
Old Tue, Aug-14-12, 09:00
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jica2000

I'm glad you found that link. Peter at Hyperlipid blogged about and called it physiological insulin resistance.
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  #10   ^
Old Tue, Aug-14-12, 09:58
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 19,177
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

I just read thru the first page, and yes another person experienced the yicky feelings when increased carbs for a hike. No mention of the falling asleep that I experienced but that could be simply a diference in individual bodies and level of resistance they are at I suppose.

I'm no expert--just trying to peice info together to better understand and therefore manage my body.
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  #11   ^
Old Tue, Aug-14-12, 10:23
Aradasky's Avatar
Aradasky Aradasky is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,116
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 199/000/000 Female 5"3'
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Southern California
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All Very interesting. Thank you for sharing. I am at LC and VLC and my glucose levels are wonderful!
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  #12   ^
Old Wed, Aug-14-13, 02:28
lola18 lola18 is offline
New Member
Posts: 6
 
Plan: Paleolit
Stats: 121/110/110 Female 166
BF:
Progress:
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Hello...do you mean jica 2000 that after low carb you ate 420g Carbs per day (3x140g)??? Or do you mean that during the day you had 140g carbs???
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  #13   ^
Old Wed, Aug-14-13, 08:08
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

This thread is a year old, but it sounds like the OP was eating 140g of RICE (not carb) per meal. I think that is about 1/2 cup.
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  #14   ^
Old Thu, Aug-15-13, 13:29
lola18 lola18 is offline
New Member
Posts: 6
 
Plan: Paleolit
Stats: 121/110/110 Female 166
BF:
Progress:
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Thanks Nancy for the reply! I was on paleo for over a year and now trying to come out of it...I tried 160g CH per day (divided by 5 meals), and found it sooo much (no idea how he can eat 140g rice per meal). I have terrible headache, nausea, and horrible sleepiness each and every time I eat carbs. Do you have any idea how long it takes until the body can adjust to the carbs again? Thankss
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  #15   ^
Old Tue, Aug-20-13, 09:18
Elfie's Avatar
Elfie Elfie is offline
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Posts: 588
 
Plan: Bernstein
Stats: 330/140/140 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 100%
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I believe the OP said it took him 4 days. I'd just slowly increase carbs 5 per day until you get where you're comfortable.
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